The power of 45-70

[Bert the Turtle]

Some seem to have skipped the part where I reminded all that it is the bullet that does the killing, not the rifle. It has long been understood that the proper bullet at 2150 fps will kill Cape Buff and ele and such and this has repeatedly proven to be true.
The source of the bullet is irrelevant if the bullet is aimed properly, so why argue about whether it comes from a muzzle loader, a DR, a bolt action, lever action, or single shot Ruger #1 ?

Unless of course your objective is just to win an argument, which is rather childish. Unless your opinion is solicited, keep it to yourself and bask in the knowledge that you know what is best for all others.

Did anyone disagree with you regards bullets or argue that the type of firearm matters?

 

[AZDAVE]

I love the 45/70 and have shot everything from an original trapdoor, both marlin and winchester leverguns and #3-#1's. Have hot loaded them and trap door level loads. A loaded heavy #1 or marlin lever gun are good for anything in North America as long as you keep distances within the range envelop of the animal being hunted and the shot placement is good. A big Brownie in the alder thickets I would prefer something a bit bigger

For africa there are much better options IMO.

 

[Phil Giordano]

Keep it like it is! It's an awesome rifle as is.

Yes, probably I will leave it as it is...
Has a 22" barrel and a nice walnut!

 

[Tundra Tiger]

These threads always make me chuckle.

We all have opinions. And on some level all of this could be viewed as a stunt, couldn't it? Does any of us absolutely need to travel halfway around the world to hunt a buffalo or a hippo or an elephant, or even plains game? And it IS about challenge, right? How much would we enjoy what we do if the outcome was 100% certain and carried no risk whatsoever. Now, that doesn't mean every choice is a sensible choice, I get that. But (in my mind) all of of us are on a spectrum, somewhere between a caveman's club and a modern tank. 99.9% of us are somewhere on a reasonable part of that spectrum, well away from those two extremes. Better options for buffalo than a .45-70? Sure. But my humble opinion remains it's a 'reasonable' choice used properly. I have seen videos where much bigger "better" options resulted in effed up situations because they weren't used properly.

Hunting is a dangerous sport - I don't care if it's just popping off cottontails on the back 40 with a .22. There is risk. Yes, that risk can be mitigated but it's still there. For those who want a lot bigger for buffalo (or anything)... more power to you. But I'd posit we're not as far from each other on that spectrum as we might think.

Oh, and before anyone brings up others involved in the hunt and risk to them, such as a PH, as I said previously I had my PH's blessing before I got serious about considering using my .45-70 for buffalo. If he'd said no that would have been the end of it.

 

[Tanks]

...

And I know it will kill a Cape buffalo. So will my 30-06, or my son's 243 for that matter. Doesn't make any of them appropriate rounds for cape buffalo. Appropriate isn't about killing it on a perfect broadside presentation. It's about stopping it from a suboptimal angle when the chips are down.
...

it's a great round and it is capable of things the original designers couldn't dream of. And yes, it will kill a buffalo and no doubt an elephant with the right bullet and bullet placement. But it is close to a stunt, which is entirely fine by me if done by someone who understands exactly what they are working with and has enough knowledge and respect for the animal to do it cleanly. ...

One could almost say the parts I quoted about a .375 H&H.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Seems like 45-70 worked just fine on buff. Seeing the buff dropped so quick, I was even a little surprised at the power of this venerable cartridge. What do you guys think??

@StevenQ718
Despite its age the old 45-70 is an awesome cartridge. The 45-90 and the 45-120 are just more of a good thing in modern rifle using modern components.
Bob

 

[crs]

Or maybe extend the chamber from 45-70 to 45-90 as on my Beretta 45-90 DR.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have a beautyful vintage Ruger n.1 and I'm uncertain if leave it in 45/70 or reballer in one of the more "fashinating" english big bores...

@Phil Giordano
What about reaming it out to 45-90 or 45-120, both a big step up from the 45-70.
Bob

 

[Phil Giordano]

@Phil Giordano
What about reaming it out to 45-90 or 45-120, both a big step up from the 45-70.
Bob

Well, Bob, the idea is good, but I'd prefer to stay with a cartridge easy to find, as here in Italy 45/70 still is a common round...
As strange as it is, the english big bores are readily available from a couple dealers. So no problem for the various 470NE, 500NE, 500 Jeffery, even 505 Gibbs - sure they are super expensive but they are out there.
At the opposite, 45/90 or 45/120 are close to impossibile to find.
Otherwise, I'd very likely follow your advice!

 

[Phil Giordano]

I have to say that I reload for many cartridges, and I could do it for 45/90. But still I'd like to have a rifle chambered in a more commercial cardridge, at least in my Country

 

[WebleyGreene455]

I'm still honestly curious about how popular .45-70/90/etc (or .44-77/90) might've been in Africa during its heyday. But I've not been able to find much about it, perhaps because your average American wouldn't have been going overseas all that much and the Europeans would've preferred their own cartridges. Maybe I'll find something one day...

 

[Tom Leoni]

There are so many variables to this conversation, it's almost impossible to give an informed opinion. How experienced of a buffalo hunter are we talking about? Will he have backup? What conditions will he be hunting in? I've seen .45-70 with 450gr bullets pushed at about 1,700f/s, and I don't see how such projectile of over .300 sectional density at that velocity won't kill a buffalo. If most everything else goes right.

I personally wouldn't take one on my first (or second) buffalo hunt, but that may just be my choice. I'd consider it a bit on the marginal side and the uncertainty would make me nervous enough to diminish my enjoyment while on the hunt. Last thing I'd want to worry about is whether my bullet would be up to the task because I just may be potentially undergunned. Chances are I won't be, but still.

So, again, I'd personally pass on it. There are a zillion other species in Africa on which this caliber would perform like a thunderbolt, and a zillion other calibers that were made specifically to tackle game such as cape buffalo. I know everyone likes a challenge, but for a buffalo hunt I'd stay well within the "everything I could control, I did by the book" margin.

 

[HWL]

I have a beautiful vintage Ruger n.1 and I'm uncertain if leave it in 45/70 or reballer in one of the more "fashinating" english big bores...

A 450/400 3" NE is a great choice for rebarreling a No.1.

Appropriate for buffalo and ammunition will be available again, when the Ukraine campaign is done.



HWL

 

[Phil Giordano]

A 450/400 3" NE is a great choice for rebarreling a No.1.

Appropriate for buffalo and ammunition will be available again, when the Ukraine campaign is done.



HWL

Don't tempt me! As I am still stucked between live it as it is or make it very "Colonial Style"!

 

[crs]

"What about reaming it out to 45-90 or 45-120, both a big step up from the 45-70.
Bob"

Bob,
That is just what I had done on my 45-70 double, ream the chamber out to 45-90. Now, I have two .45 caliber double rifles, the 45-70 and 45-90, in one rifle.
Thus far very pleased with the way it shoots both cartridges.

IMO, With modern powders and bullets, the 45-90 can equal the 45-120 loadings and approach the standard loadings of the .458 Win Mag.

 

[crs]

"A 450/400 3" NE is a great choice for rebarreling a No.1.

Appropriate for buffalo and ammunition will be available again, when the Ukraine campaign is done.



HWL"

Yes, but my 1895 .405 WCF and my .405 DR both can equal the ballistics of the 450/400 AND also accurately fire 210 and 300 grain bullets. The 300 grain North Fork solid bullets handily take water buff, bison, and Cape buff, so the 400 grain Woodies are just another good option for the same rifle.
The 300 grain AMMO is available NOW and the other bullets are available for hand loading.
Decisions, decisions.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

"A 450/400 3" NE is a great choice for rebarreling a No.1.

Appropriate for buffalo and ammunition will be available again, when the Ukraine campaign is done.



HWL"

Yes, but my 1895 .405 WCF and my .405 DR both can equal the ballistics of the 450/400 AND also accurately fire 210 and 300 grain bullets. The 300 grain North Fork solid bullets handily take water buff, bison, and Cape buff, so the 400 grain Woodies are just another good option for the same rifle.
The 300 grain AMMO is available NOW and the other bullets are available for hand loading.
Decisions, decisions.

I've found a couple of lovely .400 Jeffery Farquharsons and I'm quite tempted.

But I've also found a couple of express-sighted India-retailed 1895s in .405 Win, and they're 1/2 the price with more ammo in the rifle and more versatile load options. It's hard to decide...

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've found a couple of lovely .400 Jeffery Farquharsons and I'm quite tempted.

But I've also found a couple of express-sighted India-retailed 1895s in .405 Win, and they're 1/2 the price with more ammo in the rifle and more versatile load options. It's hard to decide...

@WebleyGreene455
Just buy the lot. Try them an see what you like the most and on sell the others
Bob

 

[WebleyGreene455]

@WebleyGreene455
Just buy the lot. Try them an see what you like the most and on sell the others
Bob

I mean if I had an excess of $20K for all four, I wouldn't need to worry about which one I liked most!

 

[CJW]

@WebleyGreene455
Just buy the lot. Try them an see what you like the most and on sell the others
Bob

I know that wasn't pointed at me, but that may work for some folks down under, as for someone like myself that would be a catastrophe. I would find a reason to keep all of them.