The New "Old" Ford Bronco

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Yup. The problem I see with the new Toyota lineup is you're forced into a turbo 4 cylinder, or the same plus hybrid. The longevity and reliability cannot be the same as the classic V6 gas naturally aspirated.

The world knows this now too.

My parents needed a reliable car, they went two weeks ago to buy a new Tacoma. Instead, they bought a 2023 tacoma with the v6 for $270 under original MSRP with 6000 miles on the odometer. Put another way, they bought a used car with less warranty for more money than a brand new one....just to get the V6 that is reliable rather than the new problematic trans and the new turbo-4cyl.

Just about two years ago to the day I got rid of my Civic 4 banger just because it had been used hard and had about 120K miles on it. It ran just fine and never had an issue, I was just sick of the little car. At the time the crazy Covid driven used car prices were in play and in the end that car cost me about $6500 to drive for 6 years and all those miles.

I bought my wife a Lexus RX350 with that same reliable 6 cylinder motor, a 2022 version, purposely avoiding the 2023s which would have that turbo 4 cylinder. We absolutely love that Lexus. And I paid sticker price, not an elevated above MSRP price, it was a great deal given the trade value of the Civic.

But....as I mentioned above I drove a Tacoma with the turbo 4 cylinder this week and it gets up and goes. Furthermore from what I've read, there has not been the reliability issues with this motor unlike the turbo 6 that is in the Tundras now (albeit I've also read this is a manufacturing issue that is now resolved).

My point? Do we actually have information that says this 4 cylinder turbo is unreliable? I totally agree with the concern....more compression, more moving parts = reliability concerns. But if I have a motor that still will go maybe 200K miles versus the gazillion miles that the old 6 cylinder would go, do I care? And again is there actual data showing less reliability, I ask as I've not seen it.

 

[rookhawk]

Just about two years ago to the day I got rid of my Civic 4 banger just because it had been used hard and had about 120K miles on it. It ran just fine and never had an issue, I was just sick of the little car. At the time the crazy Covid driven used car prices were in play and in the end that car cost me about $6500 to drive for 6 years and all those miles.

I bought my wife a Lexus RX350 with that same reliable 6 cylinder motor, a 2022 version, purposely avoiding the 2023s which would have that turbo 4 cylinder. We absolutely love that Lexus. And I paid sticker price, not an elevated above MSRP price, it was a great deal given the trade value of the Civic.

But....as I mentioned above I drove a Tacoma with the turbo 4 cylinder this week and it gets up and goes. Furthermore from what I've read, there has not been the reliability issues with this motor unlike the turbo 6 that is in the Tundras now (albeit I've also read this is a manufacturing issue that is now resolved).

My point? Do we actually have information that says this 4 cylinder turbo is unreliable? I totally agree with the concern....more compression, more moving parts = reliability concerns. But if I have a motor that still will go maybe 200K miles versus the gazillion miles that the old 6 cylinder would go, do I care? And again is there actual data showing less reliability, I ask as I've not seen it.

Would you care if you drive and trade at 120,000 miles? Nope.

Would you care if the turbo dies on a 4cyl and you're SOL with a non-functional car and a $10,000 repair? Maybe, if outside warranty coverage, but the powertrain warranty ends at around 70,000 miles and your danger-zone is only between 70k-120k if you trade at that mileage.

Would you care that we know a 4cyl turbo will not go 350,000-450,000 miles like the old V6? Only if you plan on passing down your jalopy to teenage drivers in the years ahead.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Would you care if you drive and trade at 120,000 miles? Nope.

Would you care if the turbo dies on a 4cyl and you're SOL with a non-functional car and a $10,000 repair? Maybe, if outside warranty coverage, but the powertrain warranty ends at around 70,000 miles and your danger-zone is only between 70k-120k if you trade at that mileage.

Would you care that we know a 4cyl turbo will not go 350,000-450,000 miles like the old V6? Only if you plan on passing down your jalopy to teenage drivers in the years ahead.

Looking to trade my Tundra at 177K miles, it's by far the furthest I've driven a vehicle. Perhaps I should drive them longer, but after 12 years of ownership I'm usually ready for a new one.

And I ask again, is there a reason based on data that these turbo 4 cylinders will only last 120K before major repairs are needed? I'm not saying there isn't, I just haven't seen the data that says that.

 

[rookhawk]

Looking to trade my Tundra at 177K miles, it's by far the furthest I've driven a vehicle. Perhaps I should drive them longer, but after 12 years of ownership I'm usually ready for a new one.

And I ask again, is there a reason based on data that these turbo 4 cylinders will only last 120K before major repairs are needed? I'm not saying there isn't, I just haven't seen the data that says that.

Typical. People trade-in or sell their Toyotas as a luxury, rather than a necessity. As long as the frames are mitigated against salt damage, they truly do last forever with very basic maintenance. The Big-3 American cars made in the last 20 years cannot say the same. It's a very sad state of affairs with the EGR/DFP/DEF issues on one side, the active fuel management issues on the other, those stupid cam lifters rotating and ruining the engine, etc, etc, etc.

You can make an American Big-3 car reliable, but you have to commit a few felonies to achieve that goal along the way.

At least the Toyotas come right out of the box as totally reliable, at least up until 2022-2023.