The cutthroat business of ammo makers

[PerH]

Tim from Buffalo Bore speaks about some run ins he had with some ammo makers that made him see that there is no buddies or brotherhood in that business .

A very good and learning episode to see .

 

[roklok]

I have experienced similar in the firearms industry. Business is business, hard to beat the big guys, guns/hunting/outdoor related business is no different. Wish it wasn't so.

 

[USMA84DAB]

Sounds like Hornady is a bully vs. a battle buddy.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I guess I don't get the purpose of this video? It just sounds like sour grapes to me. Is it fair? On some level maybe not. But it's a business. Businesses compete ; they don't join hands and sing kumbaya.

And some of it just doesn't add up to me. So bringing in the McPherson fellow could have won his case but Sundles couldn't afford a plane ticket? That seems like a small cost for something that could have changed the arch of your company. If you can't afford that why engage in a legal battle to start with? I suspect there is more to the story.

Clearly it didn't keep him down: he bought his own lodge in Africa. I have used his ammo and liked what I used but for the calibers I have used I can get the same performance at half the price from Underwood or Double Tap.

 

[Jefferry404]

Articulate man. Interesting story about Saami Linebaugh. The one line that he said “ strong evidence to support your belief” is so missing today.
I have lots of 475 XTP bullets I was able to snag when they stop producing and just recently got a bunch of loaded XTP ammo to feed my 2 Linebaughs.
However, if you introduce a new whiz bang, such as the 375 and 416 Ruger, get my interest and then leave us out to dry, hmmm…
That is what I respect about stories from old Africa,
Where a man’s word was his bond, even to his own detriment!
Steve

 

[Ruraldoc]

I believe the story, Sundles didn’t spend the money on the expert witness because he was just getting by. I suspect his lawyer knew it was a losing effort.

Large corporations have the funds to appeal cases again and again, as well as repeatedly counter sue their small competitors.

I’m glad He made it any way. Glad that he did well enough to buy the place in Africa.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I would say the Buffalo Bore is a bit of a bullet bully do to the fact that Barnes makes a 400 TSX and only Buffalo Bore can buy it for their ammo and us hand loaders can't buy it, so we buy Hammer Bullets

 

[RR 314]

Articulate man. Interesting story about Saami Linebaugh. The one line that he said “ strong evidence to support your belief” is so missing today.
I have lots of 475 XTP bullets I was able to snag when they stop producing and just recently got a bunch of loaded XTP ammo to feed my 2 Linebaughs.
However, if you introduce a new whiz bang, such as the 375 and 416 Ruger, get my interest and then leave us out to dry, hmmm…
That is what I respect about stories from old Africa,
Where a man’s word was his bond, even to his own detriment!
Steve

Interesting. My take was completely different regarding whether or not he was articulate. This was the first I have heard him speak and before I read your response I was thinking, "Man, that guy is not very well spoken." Funny how opinions vary.

 

[HankBuck]

Tim from Buffalo Bore speaks about some run ins he had with some ammo makers that made him see that there is no buddies or brotherhood in that business .

A very good and learning episode to see .

@PerH : I am a big fan of Buffalo Bore and use their ammo for big bore handguns & .45-70 rifles… they make great ammo !! But Nothing new here — Business is BUSINESS and Hornady did what businesses do, they fight to take market share, fight to eliminate competition, fight to make More money, whatever it takes - they FIGHT TO WIN. Follow the old saying “if you ever find yourself in a Fair Fight - your strategy Sucks !”

 

[Ruraldoc]

Sundles is not a smooth talking corporate kind of guy.

But he is a good story teller and a tremendous source of information.

He reminds me of Elmer Keith.

 

[Bandera]

I would say the Buffalo Bore is a bit of a bullet bully do to the fact that Barnes makes a 400 TSX and only Buffalo Bore can buy it for their ammo and us hand loaders can't buy it, so we buy Hammer Bullets

Or… he has a contract with Barnes, for Barnes to make the bullet for him.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I guess I don't get the purpose of this video? It just sounds like sour grapes to me. Is it fair? On some level maybe not. But it's a business. Businesses compete ; they don't join hands and sing kumbaya.

And some of it just doesn't add up to me. So bringing in the McPherson fellow could have won his case but Sundles couldn't afford a plane ticket? That seems like a small cost for something that could have changed the arch of your company. If you can't afford that why engage in a legal battle to start with? I suspect there is more to the story.

Clearly it didn't keep him down: he bought his own lodge in Africa. I have used his ammo and liked what I used but for the calibers I have used I can get the same performance at half the price from Underwood or Double Tap.

Agreed. McPherson could have given a deposition and didn't have to travel or appear in person.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Every small fish learns these things the hard way.

It is good to know the Field Ethos magazine equipment and firearm reviews are not biased or paid for. Which is very rare in the old magazine world. In the glory days most writers got free hunts or equipment.

 

[RR 314]

Agreed. McPherson could have given a deposition and didn't have to travel or appear in person.

He also states that McPherson‘s testimony would have been along the lines that you cannot let big manufacturers come in and take out the little guy because it stifles innovation. It sounds like the issue before the court was breach of contract. Stifling innovation was an ancillary argument that the court may not have even been interested in. The inquiry was almost certainly whether there was a breach of contract, not whether innovation would be stifled. Contextually the judge determined that there was not a breach of contract. This finding very well may have been contrary to the evidence, but the stifling of innovation, even if established, likely would not have changed the ultimate determination regarding whether there was a breach of contract between the parties. There was likely a pleading that Hornady tortiously interfered with that contract.The argument asserted on McPhereson’s likely testimony is a policy argument, not an argument concerning whether a breach occurred. The primary evidence would have been the actual contract(s) between Buffalo Bore and Linebaugh. It is quite possible a required elements for that contract to be valid/binding/enforceable was missing. Of course, this is all speculation, but it seems like greater speculation that McPherson‘s testimony somehow would have changed the ruling of the court (whether a “proper” ruling or not).

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Agreed. McPherson could have given a deposition and didn't have to travel or appear in person.

It makes me think there was a lot more to the story than the cost of a plane ticket.

 

[7x57Joe]

Every man to his own notion but, I can say I will never buy anything Hornady as long as there is another option!

 

[gbflyer]

Maybe he should do an episode on how to illegally poison wolves.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Every man to his own notion but, I can say I will never buy anything Hornady as long as there is another option!

Based on what?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Maybe he should do an episode on how to illegally poison wolves.

Do tell....

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Maybe he should do an episode on how to illegally poison wolves.

Never mind. I Googled it. What a twatwaffle. Yeah, sounds like a stand-up citizen.

Wildlife CSI: Inside the Case of the Poisoned Meatballs

In the Idaho wilderness, wolves nearly fall victim to a homicide, prompting the world's top crime lab for protected species to swing into actionand the apparent killer to tell us his story. You de...

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