The 243 Winchester for Australian Game

[CBH Australia]

I don't agree, use a proper bullet, put it in the right spot, & get out your knife!

@F. Vaccaro
If you are using a 243 you will probably need the knife to finish the animal off.

I have have a tiny scar from an angry hog in June 1979

Yes, .243 only leaves a tiny scar, that's why Bob hates them. You gotta finish the job with a knife.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yes, .243 only leaves a tiny scar, that's why Bob hates them. You gotta finish the job with a knife.

A @Von Gruff bowie knife would be perfect!

 

[nztimb]

A @Von Gruff bowie knife would be perfect!

Just consulting on a knife that would be at least as good if not better than a bowie in that situation.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Reading all of these post what I see is a common denominator causing failure for the .243 is poor bullet choice and or improper shot placement! I think what we really are seeing in failures is a bullet & or shot placement failure, not really a cartridge failure?

@F. Vaccaro
The failures I have seen are neither bullet failure or bad shot placement.
Yes the bullet didn't kill the game but to me it wasn't bullet failure. The bullet behaved in EXACTLY the way it was designed, usually explosive. This is precisely the way a varmit bullet is designed to work. The failures I see is incorrect bullet selection for the game hunted. If the correct bullet is chosen for the gamethe issue would arise

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I met one of those recently.
I got the old you can kill a pig with a .22 routine.
I didn't mention I used to trap pigs professionally or lay out what my cartridge choices are.
This fella has a .223 I think he's done some bush work bought a .223, going to get a .25-06 and start reloading I was going to offer some help but I'm sitting back. I know his mate and he's yet to learn he doesn't have any real world experience either.

@CBH Australia
What's the bet the Muppet loads 75 or 85 grain projectiles at warp speed and then complains the 25/06 is a POS and his 223 is better.
Muppets and hunting don't mix.

 

[DG870]

My neighbor and I would debate the virtues of the 243 vs the 270. At the time we lived in an area that had a healthy population of mule deer. I started reading Jack O’Connor at 12 or 13 so I was a 270 fan, reloading 140 grain Interlocks until the SST came out. He was 15 years younger and had had good luck with the 243. I told him that if he used it enough he would have a bullet failure on a big bodied mule deer. One afternoon he called and said he had shot a deer that he wanted me to see. He had shot an older mule deer doe solidly in the shoulder with a 100 grain Remington CoreLok. The shoulder was broken (sounded like it was full of gravel when you rolled it around) but the bullet had failed to penetrate the body cavity. If the shot had impacted 6” farther back it would have slid behind the shoulder and probably been a drt kill. In the debate of how much gun is enough, consideration must be made on how much margin is allowed for other variables. I’m not talking about grossly bad shooting like gut shots but shots that a little off or the angles are not ideal. It’s like Vegas odds, if you shoot enough stuff you will run into more variables, so how much do you tip the odds in your favor. I’m not going to say what anyone should use because everyone’s situation is different and the game is different. Discussions like this are more fun around a camp fire with a good whisky.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

@F. Vaccaro
The failures I have seen are neither bullet failure or bad shot placement.
Yes the bullet didn't kill the game but to me it wasn't bullet failure. The bullet behaved in EXACTLY the way it was designed, usually explosive. This is precisely the way a varmit bullet is designed to work. The failures I see is incorrect bullet selection for the game hunted. If the correct bullet is chosen for the gamethe issue would arise

I kinda thought that is what I said, improper bullet choice?

 

[Forrest Halley]

100% correct with 75 to 87 grain bullets great for small game, wild dogs, cats, foxes, ect at up to 350 meters it wrecks them, & 95 to 100 grain bullets on larger game with correct bullet placement it does a good job, its mild to shoot just do not try to shoot pigs with 75 grain bullets its a education thing. Unfortunately we seem to have a bunch young hunters that think with a 223, or a 300 black out, you can hunt dinosaurs.

Technically yes they can kill something quite large with a .223 or 300 BLK. They will chisel it to death, but still it will die. I'm not quite sure how to go about the correction of the need for many follow up shots to achieve the kill. I don't think marksmanship instruction is the same as developing the killer instinct. I can teach a person to shoot the center of a target with repeatability. I find it much more difficult to learn how to pour on a sort of calculated aggression and violence that is sufficient to kill an animal for certain. It is more than just the initial pin prick of shoot, hit, and hope. It is the sequence of violence, rapid evaluation and more violence.

I met one of those recently.
I got the old you can kill a pig with a .22 routine.
I didn't mention I used to trap pigs professionally or lay out what my cartridge choices are.
This fella has a .223 I think he's done some bush work bought a .223, going to get a .25-06 and start reloading I was going to offer some help but I'm sitting back. I know his mate and he's yet to learn he doesn't have any real world experience either.

Well it's not like they're going to teach each other good habits. Should be interesting to see if they survive long enough to learn from you.

 

[hawkeyesatx]

My buddy and I stool a green hunter out one time, and he had never been big game hunting anything!
Well, when it came time to aim on his deer, he took aim, and BOOM! Bullet went sailing way over the bucks back. Second time of sighting in, BOOM, round went under the deer and made it skip and shuffle.
My buddy and I then got on either side of him, and we caught up with the buck, finally. Told this guy to aim, and he had everything down, and he started squeezing the trigger on his .25-06, and both of us looked at him at the same time, and he was closing both eyes when he fired.

You’re absolutely right, you can’t teach that killer instinct. It has to be inside a person before they go out hunting.

Hawk

 

[Forrest Halley]

My buddy and I stool a green hunter out one time, and he had never been big game hunting anything!
Well, when it came time to aim on his deer, he took aim, and BOOM! Bullet went sailing way over the bucks back. Second time of sighting in, BOOM, round went under the deer and made it skip and shuffle.
My buddy and I then got on either side of him, and we caught up with the buck, finally. Told this guy to aim, and he had everything down, and he started squeezing the trigger on his .25-06, and both of us looked at him at the same time, and he was closing both eyes when he fired.

You’re absolutely right, you can’t teach that killer instinct. It has to be inside a person before they go out hunting.

Hawk

If I'm hunting with a green hunter and it's a big game animal I make sure I have cross hairs on it before they start shooting and the position of the game is such that a follow up can be made. That way if it's a trash shot I have a chance at fixing the problem before it gets out of hand. I'd also consider carrying a little more gun for the job than one might normally take. For example a .30-06 is well ahead of an iffy .375 or a trusted .243 once the adrenaline is flowing in an animal.

I'd say a person can be taught the killer instinct, but it is something that is built up and can even break down in some people. You have to presume the person is going to hesitate and break them of that hesitation. Take them out with their rifle and have them fire from prone, standing and kneeling until they have fired at least sixty rounds through the rifle. Teach them to always fire two to three shots at the target instead of one and assess the situation looking down the sights, so that they'll be looking to follow up every time. We talk jokingly about bringing a knife along to finish the game. In a developing hunter it may be beneficial for them to experience the effects of knife work and eliminate any future hesitation in this area. There is a much more profound psychological connection in this that for me at least increased my respect for the game immensely and eliminated hesitation in favor of ending suffering.

 

[Marcos Rodriguez]

@F. Vaccaro
If you are using a 243 you will probably need the knife to finish the animal off.

Thath´s right!...
I use the knife for (sorry, I don´t know the proper words in inglish... "degollar" is the name in spanish) finish the animal and make the blood run away to make more taste and suitatble the meat
About the shot placement, ALL the rounds we use have the same problem... there are no magicals...
We ALLWAYS have to do the job and put the bullet in the right place...
So, well placed, a 30 bullet are not the same as a 25 bullet...
Despite the speed!!! The speed are relative, the mass and the weight are more absolutes
Well placed, in a "pose tto the pictture" shot, all rounds kill... but, this type of sittuations, on a hunt field, are very rare

 

[Jörg Krüger]

My Goodness, just open a thread with the numbers 243 in it, and you get 12 pages of posts within 2 months time . @Bob Nelson 35Whelen Tomato field must be huge by now. Big enough to supply whole of Oz with Tomatoes.

 

[CBH Australia]

Thath´s right!...
I use the knife for (sorry, I don´t know the proper words in inglish... "degollar" is the name in spanish) finish the animal and make the blood run away to make more taste and suitatble the meat
About the shot placement, ALL the rounds we use have the same problem... there are no magicals...
We ALLWAYS have to do the job and put the bullet in the right place...
So, well placed, a 30 bullet are not the same as a 25 bullet...
Despite the speed!!! The speed are relative, the mass and the weight are more absolutes
Well placed, in a "pose tto the pictture" shot, all rounds kill... but, this type of sittuations, on a hunt field, are very rare

Marcos,

The quote from Bob is because he thinks the .243 is inadequate or underpowered.

Sounds like "Degollar" is bleeding out. A vet I worked with used the term exanguination.

 

[CBH Australia]

@F. Vaccaro
If you are using a 243 you will probably need the knife to finish the animal off.

@Marcos Rodriguez
Bob is also a shit stirrer taking every opportunity to make a smart comment or joke about his dislike of .243.

I'm trying to find a .35Whelen barrel to stir the liquid manure for his Tomato garden.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My Goodness, just open a thread with the numbers 243 in it, and you get 12 pages of posts within 2 months time . @Bob Nelson 35Whelen Tomato field must be huge by now. Big enough to supply whole of Oz with Tomatoes.

@Jörg Krüger
Thinking of starting a foundry to melt the 243 barrels down and donating the steel to Gary @Von Gruff for knife blades .
Ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Marcos Rodriguez
Bob is also a shit stirrer taking every opportunity to make a smart comment or joke about his dislike of .243.

I'm trying to find a .35Whelen barrel to stir the liquid manure for his Tomato garden.

@ CBH AUSTRALIA

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Marcos Rodriguez
Bob is also a shit stirrer taking every opportunity to make a smart comment or joke about his dislike of .243.

I'm trying to find a .35Whelen barrel to stir the liquid manure for his Tomato garden.

@CBH Australia
You won't find one mate as those that have 35s love them and have no intention of getting rid of them

 

[rdog]

As the person that started this 243 business & has seen what a lot of discussion it created, what about a discussion about the wonderful 6.5 CM one of the worlds best rifle cartridges. I fell into the trap & purchased one, great bullet diameter very efficient case shape, works well out of a short action with 140 grain + bullets, low recoil i also have a 6.5x55, 260REM ,6.5 Grendel so can compare them all. What do you think?

 

[Jörg Krüger]

I am all up to a 6.5 Manbun thread. Lets tease @Bob Nelson 35Whelen a bit more.
I am in need of a good laugh.

 

[CBH Australia]

@rdog
Nobody knocks the classic 6.5x55
I formed an opinion that a .260 can actually do all they claim a ManBun can do but it's Just not a ManBun.
Please affirm the .260 is a winner.

Soon the man bun will be as common as muck as the .308.

Thing is what some of the ManBun followers believe is ludicrous.