Tactical lever actions - what's the appeal?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

This is the problem. The action isn't capable of housing a 5.56NATO because it operates above 62,000 psi. The 45-70 operates at 25,000 psi and the 30-30 is at 38,000 psi. These rifles are chambered in cartridges designed in the 19th century, not the 20th or 21st.

And don't get me started with the 357MAG and 44MAG being designed in the 20th century because they are both well below 50,000 psi. Even the 223REM (cousin to the 5.56NATO) is at 55,000 psi and well beyond the capabilities of a mass produced lever action rifle.

The lever action is designed for lower pressure cartridges...period.

@BeeMaa
One company mad a lever action called the long ranger. Looked like a 94 but could handle 223, 243 and 308 and 6.5 need moore. Me thinks it may have been Henry repeating arms.
Bob

 

[PARA45]

ummmm.. whats the appeal?

I'll take one if she comes with the rifle.

 

[BeeMaa]

@BeeMaa
One company mad a lever action called the long ranger. Looked like a 94 but could handle 223, 243 and 308 and 6.5 need moore. Me thinks it may have been Henry repeating arms.
Bob

So you promptly went out and got a 243WIN I suppose.

 

[mdwest]

I'll take one if she comes with the rifle.

Jade Struk… to her credit, she’s actually extremely good with a firearm… she was part of the Taran Tactical team that trained both Keanu Reeves and Halle Berry for the John Wick movies.. and they modeled one of the characters in the Call of Duty video game after her… she’s married to Rudy Reyes (former MARSOC guy that’s done some Hollywood stuff) and living in the DFW these days… supposedly found God, is now devoutly Christian, etc …

Jade Struck Is Literally A Shooting Star

Learn more about real-life shooting star Jade Struck and her work with Taran Tactical Innovations in this in-depth interview.

hookandbarrel.com

 

[CBH Australia]

@BeeMaa
One company mad a lever action called the long ranger. Looked like a 94 but could handle 223, 243 and 308 and 6.5 need moore. Me thinks it may have been Henry repeating arms.
Bob

Oh yey, Hipsters with Man Buns and 6.5 pew pew repeating arms. Wots the world coming too.

 

[Siennacoyote]

To each their own, but the whole tactical lever action trend just makes no sense to me. What's the draw? Are they just great fun to shoot or what? From a practical standpoint, why not just use an AR platform?

View attachment 621211

Gross .

 

[Deepfork]

To each their own, but the whole tactical lever action trend just makes no sense to me. What's the draw? Are they just great fun to shoot or what? From a practical standpoint, why not just use an AR platform?

View attachment 621211

So...I am going to give you my opinion without reading a single post in this thread other than the OP. I have 50 plus rifles in my safe, mostly bolt guns and ARs. I have a Henry Big Boy X model in 45LC. I shoot a 250gr bonded JHP at 1060FPS with a silencer. Nothing else I own comes close to the fun factor of this rifle. It is quieter than a .177 pellet gun my grandson shoots when he visits. You can actually hear the hammer fall! Still it is a 250gr bullet at over 1000fps. Makes me giggle every time I shoot it! All of the noise and destruction comes after the bullet hits something. An AR platform is a totally different animal. I need my ARs, but they are in a different spot in the tool box.

 

[GuttormG]

Anything branded as "tactical" can be sold..
Tactical TP next...

 

[VertigoBE]

This is the problem. The action isn't capable of housing a 5.56NATO because it operates above 62,000 psi. The 45-70 operates at 25,000 psi and the 30-30 is at 38,000 psi. These rifles are chambered in cartridges designed in the 19th century, not the 20th or 21st.

And don't get me started with the 357MAG and 44MAG being designed in the 20th century because they are both well below 50,000 psi. Even the 223REM (cousin to the 5.56NATO) is at 55,000 psi and well beyond the capabilities of a mass produced lever action rifle.

The lever action is designed for lower pressure cartridges...period.

Not a question on tactical levers, but why does it seem so complicated to have lever actions be able to shoot modern high powdered ammunition ?

It is just a way to operate the bolt? Imagine one would take a R8 but instead of using the bolt handle, you would operate the bolt through a lever. I do not see any reason why a modern lever action could not shoot high powered rounds?

 

[mark-hunter]

Browning BLR can do, no issue.

But if you have tubular magazine, then you need different ammunition, and this ammunition cannot be pointed, otherwise tip of bullet can ignite primer of next cartridge in tubular magazine on a recoil
I think that making vertical stack magazine is not a problem to make, but entire concept is not overly demanded on the market, so main models will remain as tubular magazine types.
Yes, any cartridge can be loaded with flat nose bullet, or rounded tip bullet including 223 rem, or 308 win, but how long it will take before someone less educated puts a pointed bullet in tubular magazine?
So, it is a delicate matter from a designers perspective, trying to avoid compensation claims later, and in the same with doubtful marketing prospect.

 

[BeeMaa]

Not a question on tactical levers, but why does it seem so complicated to have lever actions be able to shoot modern high powdered ammunition ?

It is just a way to operate the bolt? Imagine one would take a R8 but instead of using the bolt handle, you would operate the bolt through a lever. I do not see any reason why a modern lever action could not shoot high powered rounds?

Most of the time it’s what the target audience wants. Meaning it needs to look the part and be right at home in a 1950’s western TV show. So it’s a Winchester ‘94 or similar and those actions aren’t made for modern cartridges. So it’s the old rimmed rifle cartridges like the 30-30 and 45-70. About as modern as they get are with pistol cartridges like the 357MAG or 44MAG.

I’m not into the technical aspect of it, but I believe these older actions need a rimmed shell for them to cycle reliably.

Savage made the model 99 (released in 1899) that was a lever action with a rotary magazine and was capable of shooting modern cartridges with pointed spitzer bullets. The problem with this rifle…it lacked “the look”. As a result it’s been relegated to the back of the bus when it comes to popular lever actions. I owned one of these in 308WIN in the 1990’s but traded it for a WW2 1911 45ACP.

There are some people who really enjoy the Savage 99 and @Glenn Slaven has quite the collection.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

It does look like fun..

Tombstone 9MM

The Tombstone 9MM is POF-USA’s take on a Modernized Lever action rifle, chambered in 9MM. It comes in at 36” in length and 5.75lbs empty.

pof-usa.com

 

[PARA45]

Jade Struk… to her credit, she’s actually extremely good with a firearm… she was part of the Taran Tactical team that trained both Keanu Reeves and Halle Berry for the John Wick movies.. and they modeled one of the characters in the Call of Duty video game after her… she’s married to Rudy Reyes (former MARSOC guy that’s done some Hollywood stuff) and living in the DFW these days… supposedly found God, is now devoutly Christian, etc …

Jade Struck Is Literally A Shooting Star

Learn more about real-life shooting star Jade Struck and her work with Taran Tactical Innovations in this in-depth interview.

hookandbarrel.com

I thought she looked familiar.

 

[Bandera]

Tactical lever gun.
For me the Citadel 92 in 45 Colt is a good 4 wheeler gun. I load 45 Colt and push them pretty fast. Why not get the 454 Casull? Model 92’s often have feeding issues with shorter cartridges. A rifle chambered in 454 May not feed 45 Colt.
I can also transport this rifle, with the proper paper work, into Canada when traveling in my motorhome. A carbine beats a handgun every time unless you are Clint Eastwood.

The Citadel 92 has a forearm rail, which is ok. I have mounted a light on it and shoot pests after dark. The best feature for tactical lever gun is the threaded barrel. Very quite.
The rail on top is a nice place to mount the AimPoint PRO

As far as speed, with my Uberti 1873 I can 10 rounds off on target at 15 yards in about 2.3 seconds. This rifle is tuned to go fast.

The Citadel 92 is a bit slower with 10 rounds in 4.4 seconds.

Want a heavier hitter in a lever gun look at the Browning BLR.
It is available in:
22-250 Rem
222 Rem
223 Rem
243 Win
270 Win
270 WSM
30-06 Spfld
300 Win Mag
300 WSM
308 Win
325 WSM
358 Win
450 Mar
6.5 Creedmoor
7mm Rem Mag
7mm WSM
7mm-08 Rem

 

[Ridge Runner]

Anything branded as "tactical" can be sold..
Tactical TP next...

Missed the boat on that one. It was sold a few decades ago. M*A*S*H TV series era: some of the paraphernalia that was sold during the shows original airing.

We had a good laugh over the advertising, military days, we expected the U.S. Army to adopt the new camouflage TP. It wasn't.

 

[Raisin River Ron]

Tactical Levergun



I’m building what could be called a tacticool levergun.

It started out as a 20” round barrel Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt.

I shot CAS for quite a few years and learned to appreciate a leveraction carbine.

First was a complete detail strip to clean up all the internals, remove the magazine spacer to allow it to hold 10 rounds, and tighten the set screw to lock the cross-bolt safety in the off position.

Then a wrap on the lever so I don’t beat the heck out of my knuckles.

Next up was a Skinner Sights receiver sight set up as a ghost ring and smaller aperture stored on the dovetail slot blank and a Biothane sling.

A Skinner side mount light rail (very compact) and Streamlight Protac 2.0 weapon light with pressure switch for the forearm to provide 2000 lumens of white light came next.

Still left are a William’s fiber optic Firesight front sight unless I can find a tritium/fiber optic that will fit, a Mernickle buttstock cuff with loops to hold another 10 rounds, and some Ranger Point internal parts to smooth the action more, and improve the trigger.

Pretty modest modifications, the weapon light being the only thing you wouldn’t normally find on a hunting carbine, but will do anything a totally modded tacticool levergun can do.

 

[Tam Dl]

Not much of a fight if the ranges exceed 200 yards.

Seriously? I thought the original design requirement of a 45-70 was to take down a horse at 1600 yards (Volley fire? But still...). And there are larger capacity cartridges than the 70.

I don't know what platform it was back then, similar era, but to quote General Sedgewick's last words, "You couldn't hit an elephant from there"

 

[Tam Dl]

@BeeMaa
One company mad a lever action called the long ranger. Looked like a 94 but could handle 223, 243 and 308 and 6.5 need moore. Me thinks it may have been Henry repeating arms.
Bob

And the BLR haddles 338 Win Mag, etc... Win 1895 handles 30-06.

 

[BeeMaa]

Seriously? I thought the original design requirement of a 45-70 was to take down a horse at 1600 yards (Volley fire? But still...). And there are larger capacity cartridges than the 70.

I don't know what platform it was back then, similar era, but to quote General Sedgewick's last words, "You couldn't hit an elephant from there"

General Sedgewick was most likely shot with a Whitworth (black powder) rifle at a distance believed to be 600 yards. Widely considered the best shot of the war. The caliber was believed to be .450 but a lack of an autopsy means we will never know. What we do know is that he was struck under the left eye, and that means an energy level of about 33 lb-ft would be needed to penetrate the skull.

Could he have been shot with a 45-70, no...because he was shot in 1864 and the 45-70 wasn't designed until 1872. However, I will concede that the 45-70 has around 500 lb-ft of energy at 600 yards and would be capable of killing a human hit below the eye if you will concede that the bullet will drop nearly 20 feet traveling so far.

For comparison sake, the 300WM has around 2000 lb-ft of energy at 600 yards depending on the bullet weight.

If you want to bring a lever action to the fight, feel free. Want to hunt DG with it, go ahead...it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm very unlikely to suffer any ill effects as a result of your decision. It's your choice to use what you want. But I would make sure you inform your PH of your decision, because it could have a huge impact on how he decides to hunt with you.

What I'm saying is that there are so many better options for a battle weapon that a "tactical" lever action rifle would not be my first, second or even third choice. Matter of fact, I'd put up a straight pull rifle against a lever gun (equal center fire cartridges) in a course of fire to see which one came out on top for accuracy and time. That would be a fun event.

 

[Bandera]

Not much of a fight if the ranges exceed 200 yards.

I understand how beloved lever actions are, but it’s difficult to meld a 130 year old technology with modern expectations.

I’ve been a big proponent of using a lever action within its capabilities to take all manner of game. But there has been very little that’s “new” with this design.

We shoot our 45-70’s out to 500 yards on a 30” gong pretty often. My Marlin 1895 Cowboy does not have enough elevation on the Lyman tang sight, so there is some Cowboy hold over. The cool thing is to shoot, cycle the action and send the next one before the first impact.