Tactical lever actions - what's the appeal?

[Tam Dl]

If the action were able to withstand 300WM or 375H&H pressure levels, they would be a much more viable alternative.

The anemic ballistic performance 30-30 and 45-70 are of little interest to most serious hunters. I’m not saying they don’t have their place, they absolutely do. But the overwhelming majority don’t choose this as their platform.

If they really want to attract NEW consumers, they need modern cartridge options. Show me a 300PRC lever action because putting a Picatinny rail and black polymer stock on one is merely lipstick on a pig.

Not tacky, but:

Browning BLR is available in 300 Win Mag. 24 inch barrel, breaks to 2 equal lengths; stainless steel and nickle. So an option for Alaska. Some other cartridges like 7 rem mag, and wsms are offered or have been in the past. I would go for one in 30-06, and have it rebored as 9.3x62. Or that from the 1895 Winchester platform.

Off the shelf you can get some heavies like 45-90 (same capacity as 458 win mag) Sometimes the 50-110. the 405 is all over the place, just no brass. It is in the range of the 404. And there are custom options I would prefer to pay up for, than a lot of fancy doodahs.



Jeff Cooper proposed what he called the Brooklyn Special, which was the Winchester 94 trapper with 16" barrel, for people in cities where handguns were illegal, this was all before the assault weapons ban. He said, as he would ,that he preferred the trigger and shootability of the 94 to the AR, which at the time was not off patent and a "platform" for customization. Well, people finally discovered the idea for themselves. I would go so far as to say optics rails, and light mounts make sense. One advantage to the plain jane models is they make you out as less of a psycho when the law gets involved, though at this point that is a slender thread.

Those of you who know about cropping will appreciate you never need to be empty with a lever.

It is about time for lead dispenser:

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Desperation to try and do something different that will sell

"Desperation" really has nothing to do with it. Finding new products to sell has always been the goal in any market.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Yet another widget marketed for areas where semis aren't legal. Is it available in 30-30? LOL Where I live, for the big game seasons the regs state "guns may be loaded to capacity." As no semis are legal, i guess you could have 10-30 shots (if you had 3 tags and prefer running targets!?) lol

 

[112Savage]

First, they’re fun to shoot.
Second, its another niche of the industry and rails allow people to put more stuff ($$$) on the rifle
Lastly, when suppressed there is no port pop on a lever action. The would be the only draw for me when compared to a traditional lever action.

The box magazines, if reliable and if the rifle is accurate, would make them more interesting for 223 sized cases with spitzer shaped bullets.

 

[BeeMaa]

First, they’re fun to shoot.
Second, its another niche of the industry and rails allow people to put more stuff ($$$) on the rifle
Lastly, when suppressed there is no port pop on a lever action. The would be the only draw for me when compared to a traditional lever action.

The box magazines, if reliable and if the rifle is accurate, would make them more interesting for 223 sized cases with spitzer shaped bullets.

This is the problem. The action isn't capable of housing a 5.56NATO because it operates above 62,000 psi. The 45-70 operates at 25,000 psi and the 30-30 is at 38,000 psi. These rifles are chambered in cartridges designed in the 19th century, not the 20th or 21st.

And don't get me started with the 357MAG and 44MAG being designed in the 20th century because they are both well below 50,000 psi. Even the 223REM (cousin to the 5.56NATO) is at 55,000 psi and well beyond the capabilities of a mass produced lever action rifle.

The lever action is designed for lower pressure cartridges...period.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

My dad, who is a real marlin fan, asked me why I bought a Winchester 94 as opposed to a Marlin 336.
“The Marlin is too modern.” I replied.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

This is the problem. The action isn't capable of housing a 5.56NATO because it operates above 62,000 psi. The 45-70 operates at 25,000 psi and the 30-30 is at 38,000 psi. These rifles are chambered in cartridges designed in the 19th century, not the 20th or 21st.

And don't get me started with the 357MAG and 44MAG being designed in the 20th century because they are both well below 50,000 psi. Even the 223REM (cousin to the 5.56NATO) is at 55,000 psi and well beyond the capabilities of a mass produced lever action rifle.

The lever action is designed for lower pressure cartridges...period.

My uncle had a Winchester 88 in .308 and a friend of mine has a BLR in .270. Another friend has a Savage 99 in .308 while his son has one in .243. So lever actions can be made in higher pressure cartridges. Personally, I inherited a couple of .30-30s but don't hunt with them. I think of lever actions as "quaint." I do shoot my dad's Marlin 39 though, just because it's fun!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

My dad, who is a real marlin fan, asked me why I bought a Winchester 94 as opposed to a Marlin 336.
“The Marlin is too modern.” I replied.

Yeah. Who ever saw John Wayne with a Marlin?

 

[BeeMaa]

My uncle had a Winchester 88 in .308 and a friend of mine has a BLR in .270. Another friend has a Savage 99 in .308 while his son has one in .243. So lever actions can be made in higher pressure cartridges. Personally, I inherited a couple of .30-30s but don't hunt with them. I think of lever actions as "quaint." I do shoot my dad's Marlin 39 though, just because it's fun!

Very true. As a matter of fact I had a Savage 99 in 308WIN that employed a rotary magazine, but it's not the same action as a Winchester '94 or Marlin 336. If it was, they would have chambered rifles in more popular (and powerful) cartridges.

The fact is that the "modern" lever actions don't sell as well as the ones that harken back to the days of yore. If they did, the Savage 99 would still be in production and Marlin would be selling the 336 in 5.56NATO and 308WIN.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Very true. As a matter of fact I had a Savage 99 in 308WIN that employed a rotary magazine, but it's not the same action as a Winchester '94 or Marlin 336. If it was, they would have chambered rifles in more popular (and powerful) cartridges.

The fact is that the "modern" lever actions don't sell as well as the ones that harken back to the days of yore. If they did, the Savage 99 would still be in production and Marlin would be selling the 336 in 5.56NATO and 308WIN.

So who's making these tactical lever actions? Not that I would want one regardless, but it seems to.me that they wouldn't sell unless they could use higher pressure rounds. Then again, I really don't get the 9mm semiauto carbines either.

 

[Tanks]

...

The anemic ballistic performance 30-30 and 45-70 are of little interest to most serious hunters. I’m not saying they don’t have their place, they absolutely do. But the overwhelming majority don’t choose this as their platform.
...

I am planning on using my 45-70 lever on cougar. Pretty compact and handy while running after dogs.

 

[matt85]

Semi-auto guns are basically illegal in WA. This gun would be legal here if it's magazine cannot be removed. Detachable magazine over 10rnds are illegal here. also, lever action guns are one of the few exceptions to our threaded barrel law.

We need to remember that not all of the USA has the same freedoms. Some states are inferior to others. My state is a dumpster fire at a tire factory...

 

[BeeMaa]

I am planning on using my 45-70 lever on cougar. Pretty compact and handy while running after dogs.

I'd take that challenge with your 45-70 lever action vs a Blaser R8 straight pull in 300WM.

The beautiful thing about hunting is there is no 100% right answer. We can both be well within the acceptable limit of ethical hunting and get the job done.

I hope you have a successful cougar hunt.

 

[Tam Dl]

Yeah. Who ever saw John Wayne with a Marlin?

Who ever saw him shooting a lever action from the correct decade? LOL

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I'd take that challenge with your 45-70 lever action vs a Blaser R8 straight pull in 300WM.

The beautiful thing about hunting is there is no 100% right answer. We can both be well within the acceptable limit of ethical hunting and get the job done.

I hope you have a successful cougar hunt

in my experience the correct caliber for cougar seems to be white wine or coconut rum

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Who ever saw him shooting a lever action from the correct decade? LOL

the shootist , and big Jake were both set late enough to cover any leaver action rifle he used. It always bothered me more to see the saa revolvers In civil war era westerns.

 

[skydiver386]

One big draw to a lever gun vs Semi-auto is running the rifle with a suppressor. Locked breach and no gas system to fiddle with.

Adding a can to an AR creates no end of problems in some configurations. Buffer weights, bolt weights, spring weights, gas port sizes and even adjustable pistons have to be fiddled with to get some rifles to function correctly.

Using a lever gun simplifies all of that.

 

[Tam Dl]

So who's making these tactical lever actions? Not that I would want one regardless, but it seems to.me that they wouldn't sell unless they could use higher pressure rounds. Then again, I really don't get the 9mm semiauto carbines either.

Mad Pig customs. They have a John Wick version, which strangely, isn't a surprise...

What I have noticed is not only are there all of these accessories happening, but every time I go to my gun store there is a new manufacturer of levers from scratch, that I have never heard of before. Most recently, Citadel?? Then there is Hugtek, which has a crazy amount of CNC machining in their rifle for a theoretical 400 dollars.

The original one, as far as I know is the Mossberg, which came out at peak zombie time.

-----------------------------

Then the other side of the thing is the companies like Wild West, that have been trying to make actual tactical lever guns, which is to say, doing things that would make a lever gun more potent, as a stopping rifle, or a hunting rifle. The improved triggers, sights, followers, type of mods, along with action jobs and cartridge upgrades. Mlok had not even been invented...

 

[93marlin]

If the action were able to withstand 300WM or 375H&H pressure levels, they would be a much more viable alternative.

The anemic ballistic performance 30-30 and 45-70 are of little interest to most serious hunters. I’m not saying they don’t have their place, they absolutely do. But the overwhelming majority don’t choose this as their platform.

If they really want to attract NEW consumers, they need modern cartridge options. Show me a 300PRC lever action because putting a Picatinny rail and black polymer stock on one is merely lipstick on a pig.

@BeeMaa about the 30-30 and 45-70, in some places thems are fightin' words!!

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]