"Stolen Valor" - in the hunting field/industry

[saswart]

Yes I am aware, stolen valor is a military term, to quote Wikipedia of all places "a term for the behavior of military impostors: individuals who lie about serving in the military or the extent of their military service".

Recent engagements with individuals and claims they made, made me think of this and let me apply this term and use it in the sense herein, as someone who lies about their hunting experience of past achievements, whether in the field or elsewhere...

Someone, maybe not knowing who I am and what I personally know, fell for a trap and claimed to be someone they clearly are not. The facts, people etc. can all confirm it. Sorry bud, you are caught out.

But let's make the thread less serious, I want to share a story that sort of aligns with this. My grandfather was a PH many years ago and a Spanish client came to hunt with him. On his list was a Rhino. Not to go into the detail, my grandfather shot it at the end. Now the part of the "stolen valor", the client wanted to claim the hunt and the shot, knowing full well what happened. Despite numerous attempts telling the client he can get a new Rhino, the romance of what happened seemed to be more important for the client.

Another more well known example (maybe) is some well known African hunting writer, that personalized other PH's experiences into his own...

Have any of you experienced any of this?

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Yes I am aware, stolen valor is a military term, to quote Wikipedia of all places "a term for the behavior of military impostors: individuals who lie about serving in the military or the extent of their military service".

Recent engagements with individuals and claims they made, made me think of this and let me apply this term and use it in the sense herein, as someone who lies about their hunting experience of past achievements, whether in the field or elsewhere...

Someone, maybe not knowing who I am and what I personally know, fell for a trap and claimed to be someone they clearly are not. The facts, people etc. can all confirm it. Sorry bud, you are caught out.

But let's make the thread less serious, I want to share a story that sort of aligns with this. My grandfather was a PH many years ago and a Spanish client came to hunt with him. On his list was a Rhino. Not to go into the detail, my grandfather shot it at the end. Now the part of the "stolen valor", the client wanted to claim the hunt and the shot, knowing full well what happened. Despite numerous attempts telling the client he can get a new Rhino, the romance of what happened seemed to be more important for the client.

Another more well known example (maybe) is some well known African hunting writer, that personalized other PH's experiences into his own...

Have any of you experienced any of this?

Oh, this is going to be good.

Any chance that you can elaborate on the situation with the Rhino? Was it wounded, unprovoked charge? Why did your grandfather have to shoot?

 

[Sabre]

I feel like this is almost constant in some form or another in hunting. Every hunter has met another hunter that exaggerates or lies about their success. It is so common in fishing that it is a common term "fish tales" or "Fish Stories" and hunting is no different.

Obviously there are varying degrees. But almost everyone who comments under youtube videos and social media claims they can shoot 1MOA out to at least 500-600 yards, they have all shot many record book bucks, etc etc.

I have heard stories from guides and PHs about hunters asking them to shoot an animal, or an entire safari in Africa for them, and to just not tell their buddies about it.

Wherever there is glory to be had from accomplishments, people will lie about having done it.

 

[Ed Lally]

Sometimes it happens in the heat of the moment, even though there are several witnesses. I was hunting ducks from a pit blind with a good friend, Ricky, and his brother Frank. The hunt was guided and we had a very good spread of decoys. Ricky and the guide are excellent callers and they soon attracted a small flight of ducks toward our blind. When we threw open the pit, the ducks flared left and right and Frank shot one bird on the right, while I took one in the left and Ricky doubled on the right. Frank leaped from the blind, shouting “Holy Shit, I just shot my first triple.” No amount of discussion could convince him that, while we had 4 birds, only 1 was his. Not until, upon returning to the blind, he found that he could only fit one new shell into his shotgun. For the next 10 years, whenever we dropped 3 birds from one pass we would all holler “Holy shit, a Franky triple!!!!!”

 

[CoElkHunter]

I dove hunted with a guy named Jim a couple of times. It didn't matter in our group who actually shot the bird, but if Jim shot AT it, he would yell, "I got it!". He became known as I Got It Jim. Of course, later after Jim wasn't hunting with us anymore, we would yell "I got it" even when having never shot at the bird. Pretty comical while it lasted.

 

[BeeMaa]

Sometimes it happens in the heat of the moment, even though there are several witnesses. I was hunting ducks from a pit blind with a good friend, Ricky, and his brother Frank. The hunt was guided and we had a very good spread of decoys. Ricky and the guide are excellent callers and they soon attracted a small flight of ducks toward our blind. When we threw open the pit, the ducks flared left and right and Frank shot one bird on the right, while I took one in the left and Ricky doubled on the right. Frank leaped from the blind, shouting “Holy Shit, I just shot my first triple.” No amount of discussion could convince him that, while we had 4 birds, only 1 was his. Not until, upon returning to the blind, he found that he could only fit one new shell into his shotgun. For the next 10 years, whenever we dropped 3 birds from one pass we would all holler “Holy shit, a Franky triple!!!!!”

Very common with nearly all forms of bird hunting.

IGS and I were goose hunting and had a very similar situation with some very inexperienced hunters. IGS and I each shot three times and watched our birds fall, while the others claimed them with shouts and high fives. We gave them the birds and went hunting on our own.

The way we looked at it is we got the pleasure of taking the game without having to clean the birds.

It’s funny. Him and I don’t seem to hit a damn thing when hunting with others, but when it’s just us…we kill it. Here’s a picture of opening day of conservation season 2024 when it was just us.

 

[Certus]

Sometimes it happens in the heat of the moment, even though there are several witnesses. I was hunting ducks from a pit blind with a good friend, Ricky, and his brother Frank. The hunt was guided and we had a very good spread of decoys. Ricky and the guide are excellent callers and they soon attracted a small flight of ducks toward our blind. When we threw open the pit, the ducks flared left and right and Frank shot one bird on the right, while I took one in the left and Ricky doubled on the right. Frank leaped from the blind, shouting “Holy Shit, I just shot my first triple.” No amount of discussion could convince him that, while we had 4 birds, only 1 was his. Not until, upon returning to the blind, he found that he could only fit one new shell into his shotgun. For the next 10 years, whenever we dropped 3 birds from one pass we would all holler “Holy shit, a Franky triple!!!!!”

Frank got 3 in one shot!? Incredible

 

[BeeMaa]

Frank got 3 in one shot!? Incredible

Best I’ve seen that is completely true is 5 ducks with two shots using Winchester Last Call #7 TSS and a MOD choke. Only verified because no one else took a shot.

 

[DieJager]

A PH told me a story about a client from a big multinational company (will not say his name for privacy reasons) who hunted elephant with him.

PH told him the first day that you hunt elephant with your feet. Client told him yeah, you will, just call me in when you are close.

So after searching multiple days the PH called in when he found a good specimen. Bakkie drove the client into walking distance. Walked a small bit and shot the elephant bull.

Well if you ask me he shot an elephant and not hunted one. But I guess the client tells another story to his friends.

 

[grand veneur]

When it came to hunting in Africa, I always had a very limited private circle of hunters, but I had already hunted with all of them several times in Africa so that everyone knew what the other had make or at least might have done so. It was not possible to tell non-real stories. Unfortunately everyone died, including the younger's than me and also the one who was PH in Zimbabwe and Namibia.

As far as authors of various papers and novels are concerned, I am also not so sure that everything corresponds to the reality, but many people have a reputation that ensures that they are cited as a reference. I have experienced this enough myself on the Forum where some members quote these authors as references and don't tolerate any objections. Somehow you can be anyway to get well with stolen valor.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I generally hunt alone so really have no experience with this personally. One of my HS classmates was/is a compulsive liar. The hunting stories that came out of his mouth were beyond fantastic. I heard that he once blabbed about shooting an alien. It was bad enough listening to his tales in the lunchroom at the plant. I can't imagine actually hunting with him.

Two years ago a young fella I met waterfowl hunting called in the evening to ask if I was hunting Ben's place in the morning. Sure, but he's always welcome to set up in the middle of the fields with his layout blind (I hunt from cover on the edges). But he wanted to hunt ducks on the small slough. I'm fine with that, just text Ben and let him know. Next morning I wasn't getting a lot of shooting. Finally a family group took the bait (metaphorically speaking) and dropped into my decoys. I folded the leader and then hammered another one twice. It was clearly struggling to stay with the others and had dropped to less than fifty yards when I lost sight of it. I shot two more before the morning flights ceased. Loaded up the deeks and dogs and headed home. As I drove by the kid's vehicle I could see him walking out so I waited to see how he'd done. Though I never heard a shot he had bagged three mallards and a blackie ... and a honker. He was coming back for his boat because the goose was on the other side caught in the weeds (ducks all blew to shore). I said forget the boat. Let my Lab get it. Unloaded the dogs and my French Britt was off like a shot. She LOVES duck hunting over water. When we arrive at the slough, there's one of his teal decoys hauled out on the beach. "What the heck?" I laughed. "Puppy has a fetish for fetching teal." I guess because they're just her size. I fired a shot at the dead goose and that was enough for Ellie to pick it out. As she was bringing it back I asked Mike if it happened to be a loner. "Yeah, and the darndest thing too. I was wading out to pick up a duck and it just landed in front of me. I walked to shore, picked up my gun, and shot it." Ah, that was probably the one I banged up. It was headed this way last I saw. "Oh ... so it's your goose." I laughed. Hell no! Cleaning three is plenty enough for today. What a guy, eh? Last year he and his buddy were hunting two fields over. I was sick and should have stayed home. The dogs were in the Jimmy because Ellie had torn her ACL. So I was truly hunting all alone. Damned if I didn't shoot my limit of five honkers. The fields were too wet to drive across so I had a bag of two dozen shell decoys and five geese to carry half a mile to the rig. What do I see but the young lad walking out to me. Wonder what that's about. I waited for him. "Thought you could use a hand. Man, you look like shit!" Yep. Chest pains. He wanted to call an ambulance. No, I think I can make it. He crawled into the decoy bag/pack and grabbed three of the geese. I carried the other two and my gun. Had to make several stops but we finally made it to my Jimmy. Mike drove me to the ER and his buddy followed. Turned out to be a false alarm. He called that night to make sure I was okay. "Why didn't you call me?" Frankly, it never occurred to me. I always hunt alone and able to get myself out of jams. Dumb.

Someone raised that guy right. He deserves a medal.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Best I’ve seen that is completely true is 5 ducks with two shots using Winchester Last Call #7 TSS and a MOD choke. Only verified because no one else took a shot.

I once shot eleven geese in three shots. NOT what I wanted! I was essentially blind in left eye from retina detachments and bad cataract in my right eye. Actually I only saw the one snow goose fall on third shot. Fortunately, a buddy was hunting nearby. Ten dead black geese on the water filled our limit. Daily limit for snows was twenty... each. Happened on the same slough in above story. That winter they finally removed the cataract. No more flock shooting blind.

 

[uplander01]

It's unclear to me the purpose of this thread, is there a phony among us?..... or is this just a discussion about boot sniffers?

 

[Flipper Dude]

The hunting stories that came out of his mouth were beyond fantastic. I heard that he once blabbed about shooting an alien

Call me strange ( wife does daily), but this is a dude I’d like to share a blind or a campfire with at least once.

 

[Frederik]

It's not just PH's and outfitter who is quilty of "Stolen Valor" - in the hunting field/industry

I once had a Swedish client who came for his frist trip over told me he studied every book on hunting there is and watched all the videos he could find and joined every hunting forum.
You could not tell him a thing he was a walking wikipedia.

First day out we had a chance at a good Impala ram standing next to a ewe sticks went up told him shoot the ram on the left as there was a few other young ones in the herd. The shot went off the ewe went one direction the ram the other. We heard a proper hit report.

Went over and the tracker shows me blood going in opposit direction the ram went, a few yards further there is the ewe stone dead. I asked the hunter why did he shoot the ewe? He told me I told him to shoot the ram on the left ?????

So novice error we paid for the ewe and a few days later same hunter spotted a big ram down one of the tracks. Stalked in real close about 30 meters from the ram I setup the stick told him to shoot the ram which was obvlious to us grazing in full view. After a while with him not shooting I then asked him what is wrong?

He asked me is that a ram? With that I lifted the rifle out of the sticks closed the sticks and walked back to the truck. I lost my cool and just left him there looking at the trophy ram bounding away unharmed.

That same year 2008 or the previous year we had a Danish client boasting about starting up Rigby of London. This was just around the California Rigby and Lodon of Rigby fiasco back 2010-11. A few years later heard rumours the conman ran into the law and got sent to jail for other deals as well.

Peter Als Nerving (aka Peterdk) was his name took some time to dig that up, below is two photos of him. I heard there is a quite a few hunters who send him hefty depsotits for the new Rigby Guns which obvioulsy never realized.

He was also instrumental in telling us he will act as an agent and send over all his Rigby Clientele. So he hunted at discounted rates got taxidemry done but never collected or paid for them we also got conned. He desperately wanted to shoot something with his no name double and we got close enough to this old blesbuck ewe before dark.
Then he was lucky enough to harvest this beaut of a Serval at last light not with his double.
I think he also hunted a wildebeest and a nice impala ram and a warthog sow if I recall

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[fourfive8]

Yep, common especially with bird hunting. I also usually hunt big game alone sans Africa where required but never an issue there. One reason I won’t hunt pheasants in large, “hunter mill” field-sweeping groups where practically every bird becomes a “group shot/group bag”. Not to mention all the obligatory goofy flushers and pointers that are detrimental to late season pheasant success anyway…. A system so common now. Hunting pheasants alone or with at most two or three good friends and one calm retrieving lab walking at heel is the only way I will hunt them.

 

[cash_tx]

I met a guy here in the Dallas area a couple of years ago who had recently transplanted his young family from RSA to a local suburb. Very nice guy and seemed like an accomplished business and family man, but I just couldn't swallow his story about his 1,000 yard shot that killed a rhino.

 

[pilar]

When I was about 12-13 my father took me on a company hunting trip, that Saturday evening I shot a larger than average 9pt buck and was super proud I had hunted and killed the best buck of the year, well Sunday morning when everyone was leaving my dads boss’s boss , walked over and grabbed my buck and put it in his car after taking some pictures, , I tried to say something, but my dad grabbed me and said it would be disrespectful to say something and that everyone knew who killed it and he had made a royal ass out of his self by stealing it ,be the better man and I would definitely harvest many larger better bucks in my lifetime, I have , but 45 years later it still P.O’s me

 

[saswart]

My grandfather was a PH many years ago and a Spanish client came to hunt with him. On his list was a Rhino. Not to go into the detail, my grandfather shot it at the end. Now the part of the "stolen valor", the client wanted to claim the hunt and the shot, knowing full well what happened. Despite numerous attempts telling the client he can get a new Rhino, the romance of what happened seemed to be more important for the client.

Any chance that you can elaborate on the situation with the Rhino? Was it wounded, unprovoked charge? Why did your grandfather have to shoot?

Hi Marius,

Sure, as told to me, the intended rhino they wanted to hunt stormed them before the client could take a proper shot, and my grandfather then had to shoot it. He off course tells it a lot better but in short that was it. After the shot, the client, contrary to what my grandfather thought, wanted to claim the hunt. He was not at all worried that he did not shoot it and declined the offer for a new one.