Starting to look for my first Double for Buffalo and need some advice from folks smarter than me...

[Kevin Peacocke]

I like your advice about not going too big - you have to be able to shoot it accurately. I didn’t know about some of the alternative calibers (that I’m reading about now on this forum) when I was selecting my double. Had I known what I know now - might of selected differently but I had always thought that someday I’d go for elephant and that .470NE was reasonable for that. One thing I knew with certainty - couldn’t afford TWO double rifles! What would you consider the “standard” for Elephant and what is the “safe minimum”? Not the minimum allowed but the recommendation from those experienced on elephant?

I am not experienced on elephant at all, others who are will soon answer you I am sure.

 

[Ray B]

because swedish gun legislation forces you to make do with 4-6 rifles and shotguns

The use of the word NEED is one that really upsets me. The politicians neve use NEED when talking about how much money they are going to take from the citizens, or how many houses they NEED or cars or clothes or concubines. Politicians must be a paranoid bunch trying to make sure the citizenry doesn't have the ability to say NO- but given the amount of thievery they indulge, I can see why they are paranoid.

 

[IvW]

Thank you for the insight and clarification. I had thought that I read in a book, back in the 1960s, that some author (can’t recall the name) stated that the “.416 Rigby is insufficient for elephant” and went on to site a hunter dead from elephant charge and lying next to his .416....cant recall the details that support my foolish assumption or how I imagined the .416 Rigby was one of the early double rifle calibers. This reflects my “reading” vs. actual knowledge & experience. Now to further my “assumptions” - is the .416 Rigby identical (ballistically) to the .416 Remington BUT superior or preferred for other reasons?

Only thing "insufficient" is the hunter.....
Many died using up to 577 NE on elephant....
Get a 450/400 NE with the right bullets.....

 

[alby]

Middle one. Sorry for the picture quality. I hate technology......

Lovely rifle/s Rem700stw I’ll try take a photo of mine. Partial to the WJ’s!!

 

[Tanks]

I like your advice about not going too big - you have to be able to shoot it accurately.

This is my pet peeve. The myth that calibers like .500 NE can not be shot accurately. They can be shot just as accurately as smaller calibers with the same amount of training required to shoot other calibers accurately.

What would you consider the “standard” for Elephant and what is the “safe minimum”? Not the minimum allowed but the recommendation from those experienced on elephant?

I prefer the .500 NE, but in a double I'd say .450 NE should be the minimum if elephant is on the menu. .450/400 NE will work as well but margin for error is less and shot selection is paramount. I have taken a shoulder shot on an elephant with a .500 caliber to disable and finish with a heart shot once it is down and would not attempt it with smaller calibers.

 

[Slider]

I agree with Tanks. A 450/400 Nitro will work for Elephant!!! I have a 500 Nitro and can shoot it off sticks just fine. I personally would use a 500 plus grain bullet on Ele if possible.

 

[IvW]

More buffalo and dg are killed each year with less follow ups using a 375 H&H......the main reason is it is scoped which allows better shot placement, the recoil is such that 99% of dg hunters can actually handle it.
In terms of doubles 450/400 ne falls in the same category and is the perfect dg double rifle caliber for a visiting hunter as long as he has practiced with it and can hit what he is aiming at....if not it is a bat.....

So many arrive with 300 Ultra mags, 340 and 460 wannabees and they cannot shoot for shit because of the recoil.....simple if you can place a premium grade bullet from a 375 H&H, 404 Jeff or 450/400 NE where it needs to go all of the dg will die......

Double rifles are very nostalgic but they are a poor choice for a first time visting hunter for DG due to recoil and the inability of the hunter to accurately place the shot.....again very simple

There are for example so many shots that you could take with a scoped 404 Jeff that you would never be able to take with an open sighted 450/400 NE if you prepared for that then fine....if not get a scoped bolt action

 

[Tanks]

...

Double rifles are very nostalgic but they are a poor choice for a first time visting hunter for DG due to recoil and the inability of the hunter to accurately place the shot.....again very simple

There are for example so many shots that you could take with a scoped 404 Jeff that you would never be able to take with an open sighted 450/400 NE if you prepared for that then fine....if not get a scoped bolt action

See post #65 for my view in regard to inaccuracy of DG caliber rifles due to recoil.

As far as the .450/400 goes one can put a red dot or a scope on it. When I ordered a .500 NE double from Riby with a .450/400 barrel I ordered the .450/400 with claw mounts for a scope as I am looking at it as a cat and PG caliber. I ordered the .500 NE with mounts for a red dot. I intend to use them for a lion hunt in 2025 when the rifle gets ready.

I already sent to Rigby a Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10X scope along with a Trijicon 1 MOA red dot in the UK for regulating and mounting purposes.

BTW, I was a first time double rifle hunter in 2021. No issues with the .500 NE, two elephants and two buffalo down in two trips (2021, 2022) though I have hunted elephants before with a .500 caliber bolt rifle. Will be going for another elephant and maybe a buffalo (if tag available) at Kazuma this October with the .500 NE again.

 

[IvW]

Great...less than 1% of hunters are in that financial position.......and most never even had a double in their hands never mind own one.......some can some can only dream.....some can shoot some cannot.....

 

[Tanks]

Well, as pointed out in this thread a Heym double is within the OP's financial means. It is a great rifle that I have been very happy with.

Also, if we are talking percentages I'd submit that less than 1% of hunters actually hunt free range DG.

 

[IvW]

See post #65 for my view in regard to inaccuracy of DG caliber rifles due to recoil.

As far as the .450/400 goes one can put a red dot or a scope on it. When I ordered a .500 NE double from Riby with a .450/400 barrel I ordered the .450/400 with claw mounts for a scope as I am looking at it as a cat and PG caliber. I ordered the .500 NE with mounts for a red dot. I intend to use them for a lion hunt in 2025 when the rifle gets ready.

I already sent to Rigby a Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10X scope along with a Trijicon 1 MOA red dot in the UK for regulating and mounting purposes.

BTW, I was a first time double rifle hunter in 2021. No issues with the .500 NE, two elephants and two buffalo down in two trips (2021, 2022) though I have hunted elephants before with a .500 caliber bolt rifle. Will be going for another elephant and maybe a buffalo (if tag available) at Kazuma this October with the .500 NE again.

I have had hunters arrive with 300 Ultra or 340 WM......
One arrived with a 300 Ultra....unsociable fellow....was only interested in inches and not the stalk or the hunt....while sighting in could not get a minute of beer box group...asked me if I want to try which I declined....he was doing the shooting not me.....
Eventually he was satisfied......
Sable was on the menu but if not over 48 to 50 he was not interested....now no matter were you hunt 48 inch Sable are not kicked out behind any bush.....
Saw awesome sables .....
Eventually a monster well over 45".....at 300 yards he wants to shoot.....no way not after the sighting in performance.....long story short stalk to within 150 yards....first shot in the arse.....tracking for a long time.....next shot at least 6 feet over the top killing a tree branch.....eventually the poor Sable is killed.....and no it was not 48 but very close...

So yes some can handle the Ultra type magnums and the true big bores in bolt or double most cannot....especially doubles....

Some can order custom DR from the best makers in the world 99.9% cannot.....I would much rather hunt with someone who has a plain Jane rifle that he can shoot and who relishes the actual hunt and not the inches and who enjoys a drink around the fire after dinner shooting the shit and sharing hunting experience and stories.....

 

[Tanks]

...

So yes some can handle the Ultra type magnums and the true big bores in bolt or double most cannot....especially doubles....

Some can order custom DR from the best makers in the world 99.9% cannot.....I would much rather hunt with someone who has a plain Jane rifle that he can shoot and who relishes the actual hunt and not the inches and who enjoys a drink around the fire after dinner shooting the shit and sharing hunting experience and stories.....

At the risk of beating a dead horse I submit that anyone can handle a .300 RUM or a big bore bolt or double IF THEY PUT IN THE TIME TO PRACTICE. Otherwise, they would not even be able to handle even a .308. Proficiency with firearms is really caliber independent. That being said, I do recommend a brand new person to shooting start with a .22.

Now, if someone can handle the recoil of a .375 that you recommend then they should be able to handle a .500 NE as technique is transferrable.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

As you know from previous posts I put a Trijicon RMR on my Heym 89b 450/400. It was a 3.25 moa and it was ok, but I just felt that for me the dot was too big. So opon advice from the experts on this group I fitted a 1 moa Trijicon and worked up a load that regulated perfectly (400 grain Hornady DGX atop 85 grains VV N565). When the RMR was dialed in this set up was printing consistently within 30mm at 75m.
Yesterday it was put to the test at our big bore shoot and returned a full house that was actually easy to shoot, earning my highest ever placing of 2nd even against all the 375's including scopes. This is no brag, but to just show that even a pretty mediocre shot like me can get very respectable performance with a modest, adequate double if set up properly. I never felt any recoil at all!

 

[IvW]

As per OP.....maybe 1 Hippo and or 1 Elephant???that may well change to buffalo....if it has to be a double then the 450/400NE makes sense....I would fit it with a scope and get a modern ine not an old one....can be used in Alaska as well but I quess the wood will suffer...buying a 500 NE for that makes 0 sense.....I would still opt for a bolt actiin and I would go 404 Jeff if it was me......

 

[IvW]

Well, as pointed out in this thread a Heym double is within the OP's financial means. It is a great rifle that I have been very happy with.

Also, if we are talking percentages I'd submit that less than 1% of hunters actually hunt free range DG.

And you fall in that 1%?

 

[Rare Breed]

I agree with Tanks. A 450/400 Nitro will work for Elephant!!! I have a 500 Nitro and can shoot it off sticks just fine. I personally would use a 500 plus grain bullet on Ele if possible.

I have owned all three. While Tanks is absolutely correct about technique and practice, accuracy has never been my issue…my 450-400, 470 and 500 all NE DR were all very accurate with practice. I have just found for myself the 470 in a 24 inch barrel at 11 pounds has the recoil that still lets me shoot as much as I want in a days practice. The 450-400 did as well at a lighter weight but I completely agree again with Tanks…I will hope to hunt multiple elephant and the 450-400 while adequate I would not take some shots I would be comfortable making with a 470 or 500 NE

 

[IvW]

The OP said double rifle for buffalo and then added maybe hippo and elephant.....the 400's are perfect for buffalo and 1 hippo and 1 ele ....
Multiple elephant? I have always been of the opinion that that is the realm of the 500's..

 

[Tanks]

...
Multiple elephant? I have always been of the opinion that that is the realm of the 500's..

Well, we eventually agree on something.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I actually had to go back and read the original question asked but lots of great information and discussions as always. If you are just buying 1 double than get a Heym in 500 Nitro Express and practice, practice, practice.

HH

 

[Rare Breed]

The OP said double rifle for buffalo and then added maybe hippo and elephant.....the 400's are perfect for buffalo and 1 hippo and 1 ele ....
Multiple elephant? I have always been of the opinion that that is the realm of the 500's..

Can’t disagree with you IvW. Clearly you have vast experience I value highly!