Speed too slow, help!

[bruce moulds]

Bruce iris that IMR 4831 or the Australian equivalent??

ray first used was ww2 4831 surplus,
i think 59 to 60 gns was good for 130 gn bullets.
then we could not get that, and went to imr4831 which was a little faster burning and required a little less powder.
then came ar2213 with a burning rate equal to imr., loaded grain for grain.
then they changed ar2213 to ar2213sc which was slower, and like the ww2 stuff.
this same powder is also h4831sc.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

@bruce moulds
I was getting 3,100 with 130 grain ACPs and 4831 with a 22inch Stevens 200.
Bob

bob,
i could get 3100 in the rem 22" with the slower 4831s/2213sc, and the faster imr4831/ar2213 but backed off to 3050 for all round use.
i seem to remember using win 785 as well.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

this is a place where sensible work up demonstrates why handloading has a place.
in this situation the op has 2 options.
use a 7x57 with factory loads and accept second prize or work up to full potential and reap the rewards.
bruce.

 

[Dr Ray]

I thought so
I used IMR 4831
And AR2217
In the end I used AR2209
In my 416 I’ll try R17

 

[Pheroze]

@Pheroze
Why are you crimping the TTSX with a Lee fps. There is no need to.
Bob

I stopped crimping. I originally got the Lee crimp for all my calibers. But, I find consistency in 30 cal and under is better without a crimp.

 

[shootist~]

200 fps difference is more than double what I typically see.
The two inches difference in barrel length could easily account for 70 to 100 fps.

Difference in brass (Rem Vs Hornady) due to respective internal volumes and/or brand of primer can could account for some difference in V as well, but probably not a lot.

I would be a little suspect of the chronograph. What brand is it?
My V3 Magnetospeed (MV3) checked dead on (+/- 1 to 2 fps variation per shot) with a Lab Radar in a parallel test (just one 6.5CM load and a few shots so not too scientific). The same MV3 shows my old conventional chronograph data was off by nearly 100 fps on one recorded load. Less off on others, but still significantly slow.

Another factor is temperature. H4350 is not excessively temp sensitive , but it's not perfect either.

My $.02.

 

[bruce moulds]

about 25 fps per inch of barrel.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

about 25 fps per inch of barrel.
bruce.

@ Bruce moulds .
It's even less with bigger calibers over 35 with straight walls.
Bob

 

[Rum Runner]

I'm having the same trouble with my .270, on my Rem 700. I'm loading 59g of H4831 with a 140 g TSX and only getting 2700 fps. It "works" (very accurate), but is significantly slower than the Barnes manual lists. I finally said to heck with it and took it to Africa anyway.

Here is a pic of a bullet that was dug out of my Impala during last years safari. The TSX bullets are amazing, but I still want a little more speed. In my case, I don't think I've seated the bullets deep enough (those Barnes bullets are long!). I've got a batch ready to test, but the County Shooting Range is off and on with this silly Covid thing.

More information later!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm having the same trouble with my .270, on my Rem 700. I'm loading 59g of H4831 with a 140 g TSX and only getting 2700 fps. It "works" (very accurate), but is significantly slower than the Barnes manual lists. I finally said to heck with it and took it to Africa anyway.

Here is a pic of a bullet that was dug out of my Impala during last years safari. The TSX bullets are amazing, but I still want a little more speed. In my case, I don't think I've seated the bullets deep enough (those Barnes bullets are long!). I've got a batch ready to test, but the County Shooting Range is off and on with this silly Covid thing.

More information later!

View attachment 372112

@Rum Runner
I wouldn't have expected to retrieve a Barnes from an impala.
Have you tried reloader 17 or 19 they are supposed to be the the ducks guts in the 270 but I always found h4831 to do a great job.
Bob.

 

[Pheroze]

@Rum Runner
I wouldn't have expected to retrieve a Barnes from an impala.
Have you tried reloader 17 or 19 they are supposed to be the the ducks guts in the 270 but I always found h4831 to do a great job.
Bob.

I am moving to Reloder 19 to see how that works as well. When my primers are gone I may try Federal.

 

[Rum Runner]

@Rum Runner
I wouldn't have expected to retrieve a Barnes from an impala.
Have you tried reloader 17 or 19 they are supposed to be the the ducks guts in the 270 but I always found h4831 to do a great job.
Bob.

I think if the bullet were traveling as fast as it should have, it would have gone right through. It was a bit of a quartering shot (100 yards), and the Impala expired with that one shot, but still...

For you Barnes fans out there, does the bullet above look expanded enough? I'm thinking more horsepower would take better advantage of the bullet.

 

[shootist~]

What was the distance on the shot?

 

[Rum Runner]

100 yards.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think if the bullet were traveling as fast as it should have, it would have gone right through. It was a bit of a quartering shot (100 yards), and the Impala expired with that one shot, but still...

For you Barnes fans out there, does the bullet above look expanded enough? I'm thinking more horsepower would take better advantage of the bullet.

View attachment 372147

@Rum Runner
It looks expanded enough for the job but how is penetration on bigger animals like zebra and Oryx. The Barnes love speed to do their job tho.
But then again a friend of mine loads the 80grain ttsx in a,standard 25/303 to less than 3,000fps and kills fallow deer and pigs just fine with it so go figure and penetration is good for him. Front shot on a stag and bullet was found in the ham. I am now confused.
Bob

 

[Serbian Hunter]

If I am not mistaken, you haven't mentioned what was your OAL. I done some calculation in Quick Load using OAL = 3.34" and seems that your load is bit over max and calculated velocity is 3.037fps which is some closer to what you got

 

[Rum Runner]

I finally stopped waiting for our gun range to open, and today I headed out to the sticks to take a few shots. The original problem I had was too much pressure, so I backed down on the powder and then lost some speed (2700 fps). Good enough, but I think a faster bullet would take advantage of the TSX's better.
Anyway, on some good advice I seated the bullets deeper, and bumped up the powder 2g., then looked for pressure signs on the brass and primers. Here is a pic of before (on the left; longer bullet and less powder), and the deeper seated bullets I fired today (on the right; with 2+g powder). If one were really picky, and I am, I see some slight pressure signs on the 10 to the right. I'm not sure how fast they were going, but here's the info:
140gr TSX, 59 g H4831, COAL= 3.245 win LR Primers, 22" barrel in a rem model 700. I'm guessing a new load with 58 g of powder might be just the right mix!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Rum Runner
Try switching to Reloader 19. Tat should give you velocities up to around 3,000 fps.
Some one with quick load would be able to help we ith powder weights.
Bob

 

[postoak]

Although Jack O'Connor used 4350 in his .270s to get 3160 fps with 130 grain bullets, the load he used is way too hot in my rifle. I doubt there is anything wrong with your chronograph. I get 2985 fps with the same 55.0 grs. of IMR4350 and my rifle is 24 inches.

The powder to use is RL16. I've gotten up to 3223 fps with it although I backed down to 3060 fps because there's no need for more velocity than that, IMO.

When the .270 Win. was introduced it was advertised at delivering 3160 fps and this is what O'Connor loaded to. But, after several decades the factories agreed to load to about 2990 fps. This went on until Hornady's Superformance loads and the arrival of boutique ammo factories. Then the big manufacturers mostly loaded hotter, to around 3060 fps. All those velocities were probably taken in 24 or 26 inch barrels.

 

[bruce moulds]

dupont developed imr7828 for the 7 mag.
it is a bit slower than h4831, and is probably better suited.
with 120 to 140 gn bullets h4831 burning rate should be as good as 7828 in the 7 mag.
for 160+ gns, h1000 is also good.
while 4350 and re19 might give reasonable velocities with lighter bullets, they burn faster and as such will give more pressure.
a 24" 7 mag barrel should give over 3000 fps with the right powder at quite safe pressure and case life.
another powder worth sniffing around in 7 mag is re22, just a smidge faster than 7828.
in the 270 o'connor and others used 4350, at rates that would suggest that its burning rate has got faster since then.
4064 was used liberally in those days too, but is now considered way too fast.
4350 is a good powder in 270 for 100 and 110 gn bullets, as well as 90 gn.
getting 3160 from 130 gn bullets in any 270 with a std length barrel is a big ask pressure wise.
3000 to 3050 is more comfortable.
bruce.