So you think you need to own a Stopping Rifle...

[Foxi]

Exactly what we do NOT need, the government having the power to restrict a citizens’ rights. Ask someone in Australia, the EU, especially GB, or even New York how things are working out for them.

Compulsory shooting and target practice has been under discussion here in Germany for years.
I myself am always in favor of permanent practice, but I also suspect that the opponents have another piece of the mosaic to eliminate us.
I don't want to blow up the thread, but it would really be worth an extra thread.
Foxi

 

[grand veneur]

This topic is mainly about shooting with a stopping rifle, meant a shooting with a big bore rifle that is sure can cause problems for more than one hunter. I don't know who in our countries can train and test people on such rifles, and above all where all this should happen. Most shooting ranges are limited to 7000 joules and outside of a shooting range you can forget shooting training with big bores.

 

[Cheesehead]

That said, I wish more people and more ranges had a running deer/pig setup. Loads of fun, not good for ego.

The running targets certainly are humbling. It seems like most ranges just cater to the benchrest and long range crowds and aren't really setup to practice real world hunting shots.

 

[Flipper Dude]

The running targets certainly are humbling. It seems like most ranges just cater to the benchrest and long range crowds and aren't really setup to practice real world hunting shots.

I wait for ‘em to stop before I shoot them. If they don’t stop, I’ll wait for another one.

Although I did shoot my first buffalo on the run, cuz I was a dumbass. But I’m a good wing shot.

 

[hoytcanon]

@ hoyt and doug

I suggest the decaf fellas.

Says the guy that wrote a new book of the old testament in this thread.... lol.

 

[hoytcanon]

I wait for ‘em to stop before I shoot them. If they don’t stop, I’ll wait for another one.

Although I did shoot my first buffalo on the run, cuz I was a dumbass. But I’m a good wing shot.

Most are not set-up for 3 to 9 o'clock running, they are set up for 6 o'clock running... I'm not sure you want to wait for that one to "stop."

 

[BJH65]

And so did I, until recently.

I've made several posts here regarding the various big bores on my journey up the dangerous game/big bore cartridge-ladder and where that dividing line falls between a "hunter" and "stopper" cartridge. I started off with the 375HH and have since added a 416 Rigby, 458 WinMag and most recently a 470 NE.

What I have discovered is that I kind of like the magical line of roughly 5,100 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and 70-75 ft-lbs recoil energy that is exhibited in those last 3 examples. Going above that isn't as much fun.

I've always been curious about the >0.50 cal offerings like the classic 500NE, 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs and have always viewed them as exotics along the lines of a Ferrari.

This past weekend I had the opportunity to shoot both a 470NE and 500NE back to back in the same rifle model (Merkel 140) and while some here have said the difference in recoil between the two is negligible , I was able to feel the difference.

I was very comfortable shooting the 470, Afterall it produces roughly the same ballistics as my 458 WM, yet the rifle weighed a full 2 lbs heavier, making the experience enjoyable. The same 11lbs rifle in 500NE was still a push, just a BIG push which raised the muzzle higher, took me longer to reset and let my shoulder know I was shooting a 500.

Knowing that the 500 produces roughly 700 ft-lbs of additional oomph over the 470, and that it's really the entry level of the heavy-hitters has me asking why the need for more? I'm a fairly big guy (6'6'', 260lbs) and have never been recoil shy but I think I may have reached my upper threshold.

A comparable bolt-action like the 458 Lott produces the same energy as a 500 in a much lighter rifle will which be producing in the range of 80-ft-lbs of recoil, The 450 Rigby about 95 ft-lbs and the 500J and 500G over 100-ft-lbs..

While I fully support anyone that chooses to add one of the above cartridges to their stable, I feel like these fall more into the realm of PH stopper cartridges vs what the average North American hunter that may hunt dangerous game a couple times in their life truly requires. Again, if your someone who frequently hunts Elephants then I can see the case for it.

While the 458 WM and 470NE also likely fall into the category of a stopper cartridge I am viewing them more along the lines of "Stopper-Light", closer in performance to the 375s, 404s and 416s than the 458 Lott, 450 Rigby, 500 Jeffery, 505 Gibbs and so on.

When it comes to ammo costs and availability the same divide appears to belong that 470 / 500 line. Here in Canada I have no problem sourcing ammo for my 375/416/458/470 but once you start looking into the 500s, availability plumets and cost per round doubles.

In short, as someone who has recently caught the all things African-hunting bug but has only hunted in North American and will likely only have 1 or 2 opportunities to hunt in Africa, I think I have reached my practical limit in the cartridge world with the 470NE.

As much as I love the mystique, romance and exoticness of the 50cals, I think I will leave that to the PH.

Where do you draw the line?

I never actually answered, where do I draw the line? Whatever rifle 375 H&H and up that you can shoot well and make an accurate first shot. Go with the largest caliber you can shoot well. For me it’s the 458 Lott but I’ve not shot a 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs.

Regarding the hunters safety course, I went through mine in California back in 1978 and subsequently misplaced my certificate so I took it again with the wife about a dozen years ago so I could put in for some out of state draw hunts that required proof of hunters safety certificate. Surprisingly, a few people did not pass the final test. The instructor was a retired Army helicopter pilot and Vietnam veteran. Crotchety old bastard, we got along very well. He asked me if I would take over his instructor position.

I believe Sweden has a requirement that you shoot a moving moose target requiring hits to the vitals to get your hunting license. That would be fun.

 

[KJE81]

I believe Sweden has a requirement that you shoot a moving moose target requiring hits to the vitals to get your hunting license. That would be fun.

That's correct, and in most hunting clubs you are also required to pass the very same test every year to be permitted to hunt moose.

 

[hoytcanon]

That's correct, and in most hunting clubs you are also required to pass the very same test every year to be permitted to hunt moose.

Congrats to Sweden... but in America there is the 2nd... and nobody wants big brother breathing down their necks "chomping at the bit" to remove their rights, through injudicious regulations and control.

 

[hoytcanon]

It is not brought up much when discussing stopping rifles, but there is another way to go rather than increasing the bore size, and that is increasing the speed. A hot loaded .30 cal magnum with a sturdy 200 grain bullet over 3200 fps will drop most animals faster that the .40 cal plus group, even on a charge... the initial shock is massive from these rounds... that initial shock puts a hitch in their step "muy pronto" and allows for all sorts of follow up shots to be judiciously applied.

 

[colorado]

Anchoring rifle. 500 Jeffery it's hell on elk and jack rabbits