35 whelen pressures

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks for the detailed experience, when you noticed that CFE223 was temp sensitive, just how bad was your testing when seeing it?

Being a hunter and not a long range shooter my shots being 300 yards and in.
9 times out of ten my shots are under 100 actually BUT I do like to reload and make the best ammo I can even if it’s not applicable to my situation, the temp sensitivity does bother me and since I have not been able to use this load in the summer yet I don’t have that data for my personal rifle.

I have had IMR 4198 give me an additional 100 FPS in the summer ( 80 degrees) compared to when it’s 30 degrees without a change in POI just because my ranges are close. I’m sure out at 600 or 800 yards it would start to be very noticeable but I doubt I’ll ever be shooting that far in my life.

The reason I went to cfe223 to begin with was to get my 250’s into the 2400 FPS range as varget at a max load was not.

@45-70guy
I've used CFE223 in a few different calibres 222, 223,308 and the Whelen in temps of over 40 degrees Celsius and haven't noticed and pressure excursion. Plus still goes bang at minus 6 Celcius.
I do my load development in summer so I know it will be safe year round.
Bob
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks again guys for the info.

When running 4064 IMR “max” at 54 grains i was In the 2200 FPS range

H4895 after 52 grains my groups were horrible, and velocities were 2300’s

Varget at just under max I was 2300’s and awesome dime size groups.

My goal was to run the 250’s at 2400 out of this 22” barrel which the cfe223 does accomplish with even a midrange load, 61 grains. And groups are under an inch, but I will need to test these when it’s 80 out this summer to confirm the temp sensitivity.

It seems 2400 FPS has been the go to for a long time that has worked for ages but I’m just gathering what most guys realistically have run and have taken game with to add to the confirmation.
Thanks guys I love this caliber and options, I have a stash or hornady RN 250’s I’ll work with next and TTSX 225’s after that.

@45-70guy
I found with the old 250gn Hornady Round nose I have to go to 66gn to get the velocity because of the smaller bearing surface. They were right at 2680fps and blew a golf ball size hole out the off side of a 38" oryx bull at 120yards.
Awesome bullet.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Just taking the P!ss out of Bob. He's probably pondering the merits of a .243

Yes full potential is relevant to your rifle and climate . Bob's full potential for his rifle vs yours may well be different but I think in general what he is saying is take advantage of the full potential of the cartridge, rifle and load.

When I wrote "Full Potential" I was quoting Bob as he uses the term frequently. Bob is a .35Whelen fanatic and he says loaded to "Full Potential" he feels the Whelen is adequate for Scrub Bull and Buffalo. He plans to test this. Should it fail I guess the big b@stard will have to stare it down like Mick Dundee did.

@CBH Australia
As one poster said he spoke to a PH that had plenty of experience with the 350 Rigby on cape buff and it worked fine so the Whelen will do just fine as well
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don’t have access to MR -2000 currently but do have a pile of cfe223 hence the usage, and it may be because I’m testing at shorter distances ( 100 yards) that I’m not going to see massive differences between powders for what I have on hand ?

I figured if In my 22” barrels if I could at least run 2400 FPS I would feel good about that load for any North American hunting. Can I do it with less, maybe but that was just a goal I set.

All powders gave 1” or better groups so the accuracy department wasn’t an issue, but the velocity using book data did.
I pulled some loads last night that were with 54 grains of IMR 4064, I’m not sure how much more I could fit in there physically, maybe 1 more grain.

I do prefer as full of a case as possible and maybe that’s a later test.
For right now CFE223 after my final testing yesterday I am running right at an average of 2484 FPS with a 61g load consistently.

It could also be because if now done about 200-250 rounds of tests and I need to give my shoulder a break.
I was getting just under 2600 FPS if I ran a max load when I run my sized cases, there are not pressure signs though the recoil is noticeable and at least for now I’m not sure I need that extra 100 FPS.

My 45-70’s are usually more fun to shoot if using marlin loads or trapdoor loads. Off hand shots being easily digestible and I’ve yet to have any animal need more than one shot or even leave from the area after being shot. Though I see many guys do go “full potential” which I have no desire to go that hard but use that as a reference to know I’m under what’s actually being used as a max so to say.

Thanks guys I’m hoping to get started on some 250g RN tonight, I’m blessed to have a range on my property so it makes it fast to get in some testing if time allows as I can walk outside, shoot and walk back in and tweak a load.

@45-70guy
A load no one has mentioned yet is the Sierra load of 70gn of CFE223 behind the 225gn game king spbt.
Very accurate in my rifle and just under 2,900fps
Attached are the first 2 shots chroned. No it's not the same photo twice but 2 readings.
This load would be great for deer or other bigger critters.
My favourite projectiles are the 225gn accubond and Woodleigh for reach out power. The 250s are awesome and I'm looking forward to trying son Woodleigh 225gn RNSP at 2,880 fps in some pigs.
Bob
Bob

 

[45-70guy]

Bob thank you for all that, I like to be able and compare everyone’s different experiences and results along with my own.
Your velocities make sense compared to mine as I’m running a 22” barrel here in the thick timber.
I was having an issue with hornady brass and after say 4 firings I’d start to get a ring around the case head, I’ve now gotten it down to my sizing die and bumping the shoulder too far each time.
I have 225g TSX and 225g Northforks going 2650 right now with 64g cfe223 and get bug hole groups so I’m happy with that after 100 or so rounds down the pipe, so when the snow clears and the temps come back above 0 maybe I can get out and test them alittle more.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob thank you for all that, I like to be able and compare everyone’s different experiences and results along with my own.
Your velocities make sense compared to mine as I’m running a 22” barrel here in the thick timber.
I was having an issue with hornady brass and after say 4 firings I’d start to get a ring around the case head, I’ve now gotten it down to my sizing die and bumping the shoulder too far each time.
I have 225g TSX and 225g Northforks going 2650 right now with 64g cfe223 and get bug hole groups so I’m happy with that after 100 or so rounds down the pipe, so when the snow clears and the temps come back above 0 maybe I can get out and test them alittle more.

@45-70guy
In my humble opinion the Whelen doesn't need expensive monos to kill well.
A good bonded bullets is fine.
The only accubond I recovered was out of my kudu after it penetrated almost five feet from stem to stern
The 225gn Woodleigh PPSP is another great bullet
Both these can be started out at 2,900 fps out of my Whelen and shoot flatter than a 308 loaded with 150gn SST and still retains 2,000fpe at 400 yards. So as you can see the Whelen ain't just no short range bush cartridge.
Bob

 

[45-70guy]

The furthest I’ve had to opportunity to take game was on a black bear at 200 yards, the barnes exited and dropped him instantly.
I could not find accubonds or partitions for a long time so hornady round nose , barnes tsx, and north forks that I did get will last me a long time.
Speer hot cors also were available and cheap, looking forward to using the round nose on hogs.
Woodleighs id love to try but they also have been hard to source