So you think you need to own a Stopping Rifle...

[Kevin375]

I always dreamed about big bores and I started to buy a .375 H&H magnum barrel for my Blaser and also a CZ550 magnum in .416 Rigby 15 years ago, because I already had Africa in my mind.
I'm a Blaser man (nobody is perfect) and I have always prefered the Blaser over the CZ. However, I wanted something bigger and at that time, there was nothing bigger than the .416 Remington magnum with my favourite brand.
I dreamed about the .460 Weatherby magnum, because I knew someone who had one and he had a big success with it in Western Africa. But I wanted a custom rifle with a better stock design, not like the hog back I have on my CZ or the Mark V, and a smooth action.
I went to see a specialist of African rifles on his booth during a hunting show, but this guy was not friendly at all. For sure, I didn't look like to his classic customers who are all dressed with suit and tie. I was also probably "too young" for being considered as a serious client. I burried that dream and the time passed. Then, Blaser introduced the R8 in big bore calibers and I was curious to test one, but no opportunities arise.

I started to travel in Africa and after several plains game hunting trips, I decided to go hunting dangerous stuffs. My outfitter told me to take my .375 H&H mag, that I knew very well because it was my driven hunt rifle, instead of the .416 Rigby that I only used on paper.
When I met my PH, I was surprised to see him using a Blaser R8 PH in .458 Lott. He allowed me to test his rifle at the shooting range and I fell in love to that Blaser.
Even if my .375 H&H magnum did the job on elephant and hippo, I definitely wanted a bigger caliber for my own pleasure.
The next year I had the same R8 than PH in my gun rack !
Even if at the beginning, I thought to get it in .500 Jeffery, I finally bought a .458 Lott. Cases and dies are easy to find and not very expensive. There are also plenty of bullets and easily avalaible where I am too.
The year after, with that same rifle, I killed a buffalo and I also dropped a wounded elephant with a frontal brain shot at less than 15 meters while my PH missed the brain just before. His .470 NE bullet hit the animal too low and had no effect.
I think I was lucky, but in that case, I was happy to have a big caliber in my hands.
Even if it's a bit overkill, I like to take it now for plains game hunting in the thick bush with 500 gr bullets, even if I also used a bit 350 gr at the beginning. It's a great caliber for hunting big eland bulls in the thick cover and even when the territory is more open, I was able to shoot above 200 meters with success and a good zero : I like to be ~ 6 cm above the bulleye at 100 meters. I killed several impalas with it and no problem.

That's probably the caliber that is now the most used as a stopper in Africa, but what a pleasure to use such big caliber for hunting.
Now I dream about the .500 Jeffery....I would say useless for a hunter like me, so definitely usefull for a big bore lover.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am glad you mentioned this, perhaps a concern (detached retina) for some of us who shoot big bore stopping rifles? I mentioned this to my optometrist. Should I be concerned? I have excellent eye health and he felt it should be of no concern to me. Still, I limit my shooting sessions with the big bores, more for my shoulder than my eyes!

I was not near sighted or diabetic so presumably also had "healthy eyes" when the retina detached. As we age the vitreous fluid in the eyeball thickens. As it thickens, it shrinks and can pull on the retina causing small holes which develop into detachments. This can be caused by shock (hit in the face with a baseball, severe rifle recoil, etc) or, as in my case, spontaneously. The second detachment occurred three months after the first ... after a morning hunting geese with 3" twelve gauge 870 pump. Probably not very smart in hindsight. Third detachment was purely spontaneous and lower quadrant. Surgeon did not expect to save the eye that time.

I would not want to be in Africa and have a retina detach. Even if a competent eye surgeon could be found in time to repair it, no flying in a plane for several weeks until the nitrous oxide bubble dissipates. Detached retina is a medical emergency. It won't wait for a flight across the Atlantic. Detachment reaches the macula and no one can save the eye.

 

[375Ruger416]

Had an interesting conversation with a PH in Namibia last month. He recommends hunters use a rifle of the action type they are most familiar with for DG - usually a bolt action for most of us. He has had multiple clients with a double who couldn’t shoot it well - liking the idea of a double for buffalo, hippo, or elephant but who didn’t put the time into becoming truly proficient with it. He also recommends only bringing guns of one action type on a safari. He has seen clients fail to reload their bolt action (perhaps used to their double, though a common mistake anyway), try to turn the bolt on a Blaser R8 in the excitement of a buffalo hunt rather than simply straight pull it, and be inadequately familiar with their firearms for a variety of reasons.

I was hunting PG with a bolt action and getting his take on the Blaser R8 in 375 I have ordered. I’m planning on adding a 7 mm RM or 300 WM barrel to it for plains game and have a 223 barrel to get my practice in with. He uses a 470 N.E. double and goes out of his way to use it on everything so that he is intimately familiar with it and doesn’t make a crucial mistake at a critical moment. I have a variety of rifles - of varying action types, safeties, etc. Definitely made me think.

He’s a fan of the Blaser, bolt action CRF, and loves the panache and nostalgia of doubles, but his point that most of us non-professionals would be better served by a bolt action than a double seems relevant to a discussion on ‘stopping rifles’.

For my part, I find myself pondering a 416 RM or 458 Lott barrel for my R8 though I have no ‘need’ for anything more than a 375. Initial shot placement and effective rifle operation being such a critical factor, I have decided I will stick with a 375 in R8 for my DG rifle. Perhaps, like some of you I will be able to work up to a 416 or a 458 with time but I think I will be better served with practice or attending a SAAM Safari course rather than adding another R8 barrel or an entirely new type of rifle like a double.

 

[Certus]

I am running it at ~2200 fps with 400 gr bullets. Pretty close to original ballistics. The gun weighs ten pounds loaded. It will jump if held lightly. Much harsher recoil with 307 gr Hammer bullets was baffling. I used their recommended starting load 77 gr IMR4895. Still had difficulty hanging onto the gun. I gave up on those bullets.

Logical choice. Don’t need more when the .450/400 does so well with less.

 

[RR 314]

Had an interesting conversation with a PH in Namibia last month. He recommends hunters use a rifle of the action type they are most familiar with for DG - usually a bolt action for most of us. He has had multiple clients with a double who couldn’t shoot it well - liking the idea of a double for buffalo, hippo, or elephant but who didn’t put the time into becoming truly proficient with it. He also recommends only bringing guns of one action type on a safari. He has seen clients fail to reload their bolt action (perhaps used to their double, though a common mistake anyway), try to turn the bolt on a Blaser R8 in the excitement of a buffalo hunt rather than simply straight pull it, and be inadequately familiar with their firearms for a variety of reasons.

I was hunting PG with a bolt action and getting his take on the Blaser R8 in 375 I have ordered. I’m planning on adding a 7 mm RM or 300 WM barrel to it for plains game and have a 223 barrel to get my practice in with. He uses a 470 N.E. double and goes out of his way to use it on everything so that he is intimately familiar with it and doesn’t make a crucial mistake at a critical moment. I have a variety of rifles - of varying action types, safeties, etc. Definitely made me think.

He’s a fan of the Blaser, bolt action CRF, and loves the panache and nostalgia of doubles, but his point that most of us non-professionals would be better served by a bolt action than a double seems relevant to a discussion on ‘stopping rifles’.

For my part, I find myself pondering a 416 RM or 458 Lott barrel for my R8 though I have no ‘need’ for anything more than a 375. Initial shot placement and effective rifle operation being such a critical factor, I have decided I will stick with a 375 in R8 for my DG rifle. Perhaps, like some of you I will be able to work up to a 416 or a 458 with time but I think I will be better served with practice or attending a SAAM Safari course rather than adding another R8 barrel or an entirely new type of rifle like a double.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in this. I recently bought another bolt action; however, the safety is different than any other rifle that I own. That design makes a lot of sense; however, when someone else’s life may be in your hands, you (I) better become proficient with it before you think about taking it.

 

[major hunter]

Had an interesting conversation with a PH in Namibia last month. He recommends hunters use a rifle of the action type they are most familiar with for DG - usually a bolt action for most of us. He has had multiple clients with a double who couldn’t shoot it well - liking the idea of a double for buffalo, hippo, or elephant but who didn’t put the time into becoming truly proficient with it. He also recommends only bringing guns of one action type on a safari. He has seen clients fail to reload their bolt action (perhaps used to their double, though a common mistake anyway), try to turn the bolt on a Blaser R8 in the excitement of a buffalo hunt rather than simply straight pull it, and be inadequately familiar with their firearms for a variety of reasons.

I was hunting PG with a bolt action and getting his take on the Blaser R8 in 375 I have ordered. I’m planning on adding a 7 mm RM or 300 WM barrel to it for plains game and have a 223 barrel to get my practice in with. He uses a 470 N.E. double and goes out of his way to use it on everything so that he is intimately familiar with it and doesn’t make a crucial mistake at a critical moment. I have a variety of rifles - of varying action types, safeties, etc. Definitely made me think.

He’s a fan of the Blaser, bolt action CRF, and loves the panache and nostalgia of doubles, but his point that most of us non-professionals would be better served by a bolt action than a double seems relevant to a discussion on ‘stopping rifles’.

For my part, I find myself pondering a 416 RM or 458 Lott barrel for my R8 though I have no ‘need’ for anything more than a 375. Initial shot placement and effective rifle operation being such a critical factor, I have decided I will stick with a 375 in R8 for my DG rifle. Perhaps, like some of you I will be able to work up to a 416 or a 458 with time but I think I will be better served with practice or attending a SAAM Safari course rather than adding another R8 barrel or an entirely new type of rifle like a double.

Agree with this, you can have the largest bore in the world but if you can't shoot it comfortably it's almost useless in those moments (regardless of the ballistics).

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Agree with this, you can have the largest bore in the world but if you can't shoot it comfortably it's almost useless in those moments (regardless of the ballistics).

I think you mean "... shoot it competently ..."?

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I will never own and/or use a smaller calibre based on the concept of I am the client and it's the PH's job to stop a charge, this thought process just doesn't make any sense to me. Your PH isn't always going to be right beside you holding your hand with the exact right angle through the thick bush to be able to do the charge stopping for you. Having said that, does this mean you need to be carrying a 577 instead of a 9.3, probably not but using the concept of "I'm the client" although valid to a certain degree shouldn't be the main source of reasoning behind your choice of rifle or calibre for DG.

Don't pressure yourself into buying and using a massive heavy recoiling calibre if you are not comfortable with it, but also don't just limit yourself to a smaller calibre based on you relying on someone else to stop a charge for you.

Whatever rifle and calibre you choose to use, make sure you can shoot it well. Being able to shoot your rifle well (as long as it is an adequate calibre with correct bullet choice) is more important than anything else no matter what you are hunting.

 

[major hunter]

I will never own and/or use a smaller calibre based on the concept of I am the client and it's the PH's job to stop a charge, this thought process just doesn't make any sense to me. Your PH isn't always going to be right beside you holding your hand with the exact right angle through the thick bush to be able to do the charge stopping for you. Having said that, does this mean you need to be carrying a 577 instead of a 9.3, probably not but using the concept of "I'm the client" although valid to a certain degree shouldn't be the main source of reasoning behind your choice of rifle or calibre for DG.

Don't pressure yourself into buying and using a massive heavy recoiling calibre if you are not comfortable with it, but also don't just limit yourself to a smaller calibre based on you relying on someone else to stop a charge for you.

Whatever rifle and calibre you choose to use, make sure you can shoot it well. Being able to shoot your rifle well (as long as it is an adequate calibre with correct bullet choice) is more important than anything else no matter what you are hunting.

well said!

 

[375Ruger416]

I definitely agree with shooting the most effective cartridge you can handle. I should clarify - can shoot well, instinctively and under stress. The solution is practice and familiarity with your weapon and chosen cartridge. Brutal honesty is vital too.

From what I understand, the biggest cause of ‘excitement’ when DG hunting is poor initial shot placement. In some cases, ‘stopping rifles’ may be both the cause and the solution to a charge.

 

[cajunchefray]

Does anyone really need anything more that a 6.5mm?

**Heavy Sarcasm**

We all know you have to move up to a .270 Winchester

 

[Tra3]

I’m with @375Fox regarding my plan to continue using the .375. I am most comfortable with that caliber, so I will continue to use it. I’d love to say I am a perfect shot with it, but I am not. I will need considerable practice to go up in caliber.

With that said, I’m inclined to get a .416 barrel for my R8 for practice.
Why? I returned from my 4th safari last week (3rd DG hunt). This hunt resulted in an elephant, 3 hippos, 2 buffalo, 2 giraffe, eland and kudu. I did not feel undergunned… except for elephant. You either make a perfect first shot (I have) or you don’t (I have also done this).
Here is my conundrum: If you don’t make a perfect first shot, how quickly and accurately can you make the next shots, on a moving target, while also running? I still think I am best served with the .375 because I can follow up more accurately and faster. But now I am considering.

I think @WAB is quite correct with this comment:
“If you think there are no circumstances where you will be called to stop a charge or save your PH, you simply have not spent enough time in the bush yet.”

Finally, I agree with @Tanks that the cost of ammo is minimal compared to the cost of a DG hunt. You owe it to yourself and the people around you to practice a lot prior to DG. I seriously doubt anyone finishes a DG hunt and thinks “I wish I would have practiced less.”

 

[Daniel Cary]

just in practice & twice on bear .. it's kind of an adrenaline rush.
I already lost my nerve, however?

@spike.t it's really hard to tell, but I ran a "Kynoch"
600grn 2100fps.
Norma 570
Norma 540
Kynoch

 

[Red Leg]

I have posted this on other threads, but my Mozambique PH and now old friend says that the only thing that really frightens him is a client showing up on his first dangerous game hunt with his brand new double rifle. As clients, we have exactly one responsibility - put the first shot EXACTLY where it needs to go. Using anything but the rifle that makes that shot most effectively puts everyone (though typically not the client thanks to courageous PHs) in danger. For me that is a scoped .375. No, I have absolutely no use for a stopping rifle.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Did Taylor ever draw the distinction in his KO values of where the lower threshold of a stopping cartridge was?

Looking at the following would TKO of 70 be a reasonable minimum for a stopper? All the medium bores in comparison have a TKO of less than 60.

458 WinMag 500 gr- 70
470 NE 500 gr - 72
458 Lott 500 gr - 75
450 Rigby 500 gr - 78
500 NE 570 gr - 89
505 Gibbs 570 gr - 94
500 Jeffery 570 gr - 96

 

[Daniel Cary]

Did Taylor ever draw the distinction in his KO values of where the lower threshold of a stopping cartridge was?

Looking at the following would TKO of 70 be a reasonable minimum for a stopper? All the medium bores in comparison have a TKO of less than 60.

458 WinMag 500 gr- 70
470 NE 500 gr - 72
458 Lott 500 gr - 75
450 Rigby 500 gr - 78
500 NE 570 gr - 89
505 Gibbs 570 gr - 94
500 Jeffery 570 gr - 96

I buy that,
the 500 Jeffery from a 458 Lott feels about 1/3 more, respectively .. just rambling here.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I buy that,
the 500 Jeffery from a 458 Lott feels about 1/3 more, respectively .. just rambling here.

The Jeffery is to the Lott what the Lott is to the WinMag.

 

[Creigh]

Yep. First shot fired out of my newly built 404J I learned it ain't no 30-06. Hang onto that pup!
View attachment 638756
404J is more than enough gun. It is not pleasant shooting 400 gr bullets (307 gr loads were much worse!) but I've never been recoil adverse. I used 375 CZ550 to kill both my buffalo and I don't remember any special handling was needed. Shot it once off the bench before hunting.

Look closely at the photo. Note that the left eye (right side of image) does not track with the other one. It wears a silicon buckle around the eyeball. Muscles have also been damaged due to pulling the eyeball from socket for three surgeries for retina detachments (which is NOT done under general anesthesia). That eye sees well enough to give me some depth perception but that's about all. Right eye has pieces floating around in it. I estimate 25% of the time I don't even see the skeet target when I break it. At least four torn spots repaired in right retina with laser (MUCH more painful than general surgeries on left eye). Last general surgery was twenty years ago and no laser patch jobs since 2011. The surgeon has given me the green light to shoot but I am pushing the envelope with 404J recoil. Much as I would like to become a "natural" shooting this thumper, I must be conservative at the range. Probably should have built a 375 but it's a bit more complicated due to longer cartridge.

I'd recommend to anyone firing a big caliber to do it with open sights first. That way you know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Jack Stevens]

When I had thought to acquire something in the 500-class, I considered seriously the .505 Gibbs until I read Hemingway’s account of his actually shooting one (apart from its role in the Francis Macomber story).

No doubt cool for the DGR collection but since I’m a shooter first and a collector second, I made the decision to pass on the .500 bores. I already had rifles chambered in three of the classic British African calibers - a .300H&H, a .375 H&H, and a .404 Jeff.

For anything I might hunt in Africa or Alaska, certainly the last two would have them covered. So after toying with the largely romantic notion of owning a customized .505G - a notion which avoided the unpleasant reality of feeding and shooting it - I looked in my safe and called it good.

 

[dogcat1]

I have shot all up to 470 NE and 458 Lott. I settled on .375 HH and 404 Jeff. All I can handle!