So, I Was In The Loading Room Today...

[flying sailor]

This time of year is great to spend on the bench. Just added another single stage. That makes 4 , should be enough. I used to quite openly carry another firearm purchase through the living room, the wife said nothing. It was 3 am and if she was sound asleep, thats on her.

 

[Rare Breed]

Thanks so much!!! Helpful! Last question. About how many reload cycles before the need to anneal please?

 

[PARA45]

I've read many different opinions on when to anneal. What I have read is that it depends on the cartridge, is it a high-pressure caliber, or low pressure. Based on this, low pressure calibers, about every 4-5 firings, high pressure (depending on if you are neck sizing or not) every 2-3 firings. It all boils down on how hard you are working the brass when you resize it.

I've seen videos of individuals using a drill, using a socket to hold the case, and they spin it slow in front of a torch.

I've been thinking about getting into it myself.

 

[mdwest]

I've read many different opinions on when to anneal. What I have read is that it depends on the cartridge, is it a high-pressure caliber, or low pressure. Based on this, low pressure calibers, about every 4-5 firings, high pressure (depending on if you are neck sizing or not) every 2-3 firings. It all boils down on how hard you are working the brass when you resize it.

I've seen videos of individuals using a drill, using a socket to hold the case, and they spin it slow in front of a torch.

I've been thinking about getting into it myself.

Ive not done a ton of annealing.. toyed with it more than anything a few times over the years.. Im not sure its really been necessary for anything I do.. for most of my calibers I keep a ton of brass on hand.. it takes several years before I even get close to having 3 firings per cartridge case (for example, I probably have 1000 pieces of 308 brass.. and at the moment have over 500 rounds of "hunting" ammunition loaded for my 308's... I maybe burn through 50 rounds of 308 a year... so.. in 10 years Im going to need to reload some more 308 lol.. and all of that brass will be on either its 1st or 2nd re-load..)..

when I have annealed, its been the drill method you describe..just find a socket that the cartridge fits snugly into, attach it to a 6" extension, and turn it slowly while putting a propane torch to the cartridge neck and shoulder..

Im doubtful I'll ever do it again though other than I might get bored at some point and just go out to the bench to experiment and play... its going to be a long time before the 250+ pieces of 375 H&H brass get loaded for the 3rd time lol..

 

[gizmo]

@Rare Breed brass is different from steel in that as you work it brass becomes harder and more brittle. By annealing it you soften the brass back down reducing the likelihood of the brass splitting.

 

[PARA45]

Ive not done a ton of annealing.. toyed with it more than anything a few times over the years.. Im not sure its really been necessary for anything I do.. for most of my calibers I keep a ton of brass on hand.. it takes several years before I even get close to having 3 firings per cartridge case (for example, I probably have 1000 pieces of 308 brass.. and at the moment have over 500 rounds of "hunting" ammunition loaded for my 308's... I maybe burn through 50 rounds of 308 a year... so.. in 10 years Im going to need to reload some more 308 lol.. and all of that brass will be on either its 1st or 2nd re-load..)..

when I have annealed, its been the drill method you describe..just find a socket that the cartridge fits snugly into, attach it to a 6" extension, and turn it slowly while putting a propane torch to the cartridge neck and shoulder..

Im doubtful I'll ever do it again though other than I might get bored at some point and just go out to the bench to experiment and play... its going to be a long time before the 250+ pieces of 375 H&H brass get loaded for the 3rd time lol..

I hear ya, and I'm in the same boat as you, I have a lot of brass for the rifles I shoot (except 300 blackout) and have not gotten to the point of reloading them 2-3 either. I think annealing would be beneficial for those hard-to-get cases/calibers, or if the shooter has limited supply of such brass and shoots them a lot.

Question, can brass stored in metal containers (unused) become bridle over time? Asking for a friend.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks so much!!! Helpful! Last question. About how many reload cycles before the need to anneal please?

@Rare Breed
I have only just got into annealing to.
I have 2 wild cats that suffered between 10 an 30% neck/ shoulder cracks on fire forming. Since I have been annealing before firing my loss rate is zero.
I now anneal every 4th or 5th load.
I made my own induction annealer. If you live in the USA you can make one for less than $200. There's a great video on you tube on how to do it, it very easy. It takes 0.7 seconds to anneal a 22 hornet, 1.8 seconds for a 222 rem, 3.4 sec for my 25 and 3.8sec for the 398 and the Whelen.

The timer used to set the times

The induction annealer with homemade coils, you get 8 coils with it that you can make to the size you want.
A annealer case

Bob

 

[DG870]

I anneal 30-06 cases before sizing them for my 35 Whelen and 338-06 and occasionally anneal brass for my 7.5 Swiss for a K-31. I hold the brass bare handed and roll the neck/shoulder area slowly through the tip of the flame. Doesn’t take long and you can see the straw color move the shoulder. You don’t have to worry about getting it too hot - you’ll burn your fingers first.

When I started annealing I used a 700 degree tempiqul stick to test temperature until I learned to judge the color. Not a good as an automatic annealer but it’s worked for 40 years.

 

[Inline6]

Thanks so much!!! Helpful! Last question. About how many reload cycles before the need to anneal please?

Personally anneal every time, why not? The brass is in the same condition every time. I do have an AMP, it does cost a little, worth it to me. My reloads are in low single digits due to this. I'm shooting for small targets at long distance. Is it required, no. If you make it a routine (annealing) it will never be a question of what stage your brass is in.

 

[D.M.V]

I use a cheap map torch from the big box hardware store. Many years of doing this and I go by feel and color. Could it be more precise and scientific sure. But I haven't had any problems yet. Someday I'd like too get a fancy one.

 

[Inline6]

I use a cheap map torch from the big box hardware store. Many years of doing this and I go by feel and color. Could it be more precise and scientific sure. But I haven't had any problems yet. Someday I'd like too get a fancy one.

Have gone that route before, everything was good for the first 4 reloads. Then in a match I started getting case head separation, it was not a fun way to shoot a match.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Personally anneal every time, why not? The brass is in the same condition every time. I do have an AMP, it does cost a little, worth it to me. My reloads are in low single digits due to this. I'm shooting for small targets at long distance. Is it required, no. If you make it a routine (annealing) it will never be a question of what stage your brass is in.

@Inline6
I recently read an article by a person that buys 100 cases with every rifle purchase. He anneal every shot and has never run out of original case before his barrel is worn out. He gets 35 plus loads per case, trims and rechamfer as needed. This may have some merit with the cost of brass nowdays.
Bob

 

[krish]

@Rare Breed
Get this one. You will not look back.
Krish

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Rare Breed
Get this one. You will not look back.
KrishView attachment 513965

@krish
I'm a tight arse when it comes to spending money. The one in my post does the same job. Just doest look as pretty but only cost 200bucks US

 

[Inline6]

@Inline6
I recently read an article by a person that buys 100 cases with every rifle purchase. He anneal every shot and has never run out of original case before his barrel is worn out. He gets 35 plus loads per case, trims and rechamfer as needed. This may have some merit with the cost of brass nowdays.
Bob

It depends on brass quality 1. He does not shoot much in the field 2. Unless he is shooting something like a 223 or 308, I'm not sure how his barrels are living that long 3.

I will not knock hornady ammo, it is good suff out the box. In the the past 6-7 reloads is all I would get out of brass before the primer pockets would loosen up. I have talk to some of the guys shooting 6BRs and they have said the same thing 35-40 reloads. In field shoot especially matches your expectations for loss brass are in the 20% or higher. Some guys go through great pains to mark the brass so they can reclaim it. I'm betting those guys still loss 5%+. Most of your barrels just don't last that long if your are going for best performance meaning holding your accuracy standards high. 6.5CM (2000-2500) 6CM (1000-1200) 243 (1000-1200) 6XC (1500-1800) 6BR (2000-2800) 260 (2000-2500) 308 (4000+) 223 (4000+) 338LM (1100-1400) 7WSM (1200-1500). Those are the only ones I can actually speak on. Some of them are multiple barrels. How hard you run them will play in how fast the let go. If one of my competition rigs would not hold 3/8" at 100 for 5 shots. Barrel is coming off. Barrels are nothing more than race car tires, you can't win with out a good set.

At the end of the day, I do it for SDs and consistency. If brass life is extended that is a bonus. Most matches I did shoot required 200rds+ for a 2 day match. I would buy 400-500 pcs of brass with each barrel. Then started cutting my own with a friend that has the setup. We used the same reamer, so I kept using the brass. Like I said, I would loss the brass before I would wear it out.

 

[Inline6]

@krish
I'm a tight arse when it comes to spending money. The one in my post does the same job. Just doest look as pretty but only cost 200bucks US

You did an awesome job building yours, my hat is off to you.

What the amp does is anneals the brass to the perfect temperature for each lot of brass. You are paying for a lot of great technology. Does everyone need it? That is up to the end user. I have not found a better system then this for annealing and it coming out correct every time for every cartridge.

 

[krish]

@krish
I'm a tight arse when it comes to spending money. The one in my post does the same job. Just doest look as pretty but only cost 200bucks US

Well Mr. RareBreed is a vice or president of a company. He may not want to mess with things that takes time. So I suggested that.
Again as @Inline6 said the consistency. The machine has a lot of tailoring options
Krish

 

[Desperatezulu]

Thanks so much!!! Helpful! Last question. About how many reload cycles before the need to anneal please?

Consistency is is second only to safety in the Ten Commandments of reloading... annealing every cycle is the way to go. Otherwise you're guessing plus once cracking starts, annealing aint going to fix it.

Make annealing one of your reloading steps. The AMP machine is nice to have for sure but there are a number of fairly inexpensive 'auto' machines that use a blowtorch to heat and can be adjusted to the appropriate heating time per calibre - so even annealing large numbers of cartridges isn't too much work.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It depends on brass quality 1. He does not shoot much in the field 2. Unless he is shooting something like a 223 or 308, I'm not sure how his barrels are living that long 3.

I will not knock hornady ammo, it is good suff out the box. In the the past 6-7 reloads is all I would get out of brass before the primer pockets would loosen up. I have talk to some of the guys shooting 6BRs and they have said the same thing 35-40 reloads. In field shoot especially matches your expectations for loss brass are in the 20% or higher. Some guys go through great pains to mark the brass so they can reclaim it. I'm betting those guys still loss 5%+. Most of your barrels just don't last that long if your are going for best performance meaning holding your accuracy standards high. 6.5CM (2000-2500) 6CM (1000-1200) 243 (1000-1200) 6XC (1500-1800) 6BR (2000-2800) 260 (2000-2500) 308 (4000+) 223 (4000+) 338LM (1100-1400) 7WSM (1200-1500). Those are the only ones I can actually speak on. Some of them are multiple barrels. How hard you run them will play in how fast the let go. If one of my competition rigs would not hold 3/8" at 100 for 5 shots. Barrel is coming off. Barrels are nothing more than race car tires, you can't win with out a good set.

At the end of the day, I do it for SDs and consistency. If brass life is extended that is a bonus. Most matches I did shoot required 200rds+ for a 2 day match. I would buy 400-500 pcs of brass with each barrel. Then started cutting my own with a friend that has the setup. We used the same reamer, so I kept using the brass. Like I said, I would loss the brass before I would wear it out.

@Inline6
A friend of mine buys the occasional barrel in 6mm of a comp shooter friend. This comp shooter is a world champ and when his barrels start shooting groups bigger than 0.1 inch 5 shot groups they are no use to him, they have to be 0.0### whatever to him. Neil gladly buys these supposed no use barrels.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

You did an awesome job building yours, my hat is off to you.

What the amp does is anneals the brass to the perfect temperature for each lot of brass. You are paying for a lot of great technology. Does everyone need it? That is up to the end user. I have not found a better system then this for annealing and it coming out correct every time for every cartridge.

@Inline6
Different brands of brass anneal at different times. I use 1 or 2 cases to find out my times.
I put 700 degree templaq on the neck and shoulder of the case and go up in 0.1 sec increments until it melts. A bit of a pain in the arse but when I know the time I just record it and can set the time needed very quickly. To simplify things I always us the same brand of brass.
If I use a different brand I just use the templaq again to work it out.
I use different size coils for each caliber that take 10 seconds to install. Once it is set up( that only takes a couple of minutes to install the coil and set the timer) I can do 50 cases in abot 5 minutes.
Bob