Slug hunting Plains Game and Dangerous Game?

all things being equal, the slug should clearly penetrate more than a round ball.
the reason comes down to two words.
sectional density.
this of course assumes that the slug is spinning sufficiently to keep it stable and nose forward when it strikes game and as it penetrates..
rifled barrels in some form assist this to happen and do it with a consistency.
should the slug go sideways on it has a lower sectional density than a round ball.
should the slug expand, its sectional density decreases.
bruce.
 
all things being equal, the slug should clearly penetrate more than a round ball.
the reason comes down to two words.
sectional density.
this of course assumes that the slug is spinning sufficiently to keep it stable and nose forward when it strikes game and as it penetrates..
rifled barrels in some form assist this to happen and do it with a consistency.
should the slug go sideways on it has a lower sectional density than a round ball.
should the slug expand, its sectional density decreases.
bruce.
No slug of which I am aware achieves stabilizing spin when fired from a smoothbore. As I am sure you know, "rifled" slugs aren't. The grooves are to allow them to compress through any choke they are fired from. They were put on at a slant to enamor potential buyers with their implied accuracy and to mimic Foster's original design.

But as you note, flying nose first is helpful ;) Many manufacturers use (and have used for years - see Foster slugs) rear attachments to give the projectile a weight forward profile. It is more akin to a sand-filled bag than a rifle bullet.
 
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I have never used slugs, but have done something similar.
years ago I experimented with a poor mans express, being a 577 muzzle loader loaded with 500 gn minie bullets and 200+ gns of 2f black powder.
these loads were serious to shoot, but I could get 5 shots before cleaning was necessary.
I had no chronograph in those days, so have no knowledge of velocities.
the minies were of necessity pure lead.
shooting pigs with this setup soon revealed that I was lucky to be with a guy who was using a 30/06.
the bullets flattened out to the shape of a big coin on pigs fighting pads, and had a serious lack of penetration.
obviously a harder alloy would have been better, but that is not good in a minie bullet.
these bullets are not a lot different to some shotgun slugs, in that they are nose heavy, but came out of a rifled barrel.
I suspect they would have been deadly on deer with side on chest shots, but never tried them for that.
certainly shooting lions with them might have been a death sentence.
slugs might well be designed for deer sized game,but who knows.
a correctly designed slug might work well, but you would need to know in advance, and not make an alarming discovery in situ.
bruce.
 
Nothing wrong with hunting plains game with slugs.

Ginger van Zyl shot n Cape Buffalo with a Brenneke slug that was harassing locals and eating their crops. He had filled his licence and was close to a village doing some bird hunting, when some locals aproached him and asked if he could sort out a problem buffalo.(They had a permit to shoot it but no rifle). Not wanting to go all the way back to camp he decided to give the slug a go in his shotgun. He got close(actually stalked it from behind one of the hut's) and put the slug just behind the front leg, slightly quartering away. The bull gave a few steps backward and fell over, dead.

Would I recommend it for buffalo, NO. But it has been done.

Brenneke slugs offer the best penetration of all in 12ga.

When I started my hunting career I bought a 375 H&H on a Brno XKK 602 action. I shot everything with it and used it for back-up on many hunts. As things progressed to more dangerous game hunting, I stepped up to a 500 Jeff.
On one leopard hunt we had to follow up as the cat was wounded. The result was one of the follow up party got nailed by the cat and looked like he had been playing with a chainsaw. That day I decided a bolt action is not the thing for following up leopard. There is no time to reload, so with a bolt you mostly have one shot.

I decided a double was needed as you had an instant second shot. Only problem was I could not afford one. I did have a Brno sidelock sxs 12ga shotgun. So I started experimenting with it using slugs. All different kinds I tried. The best performing on game animals and giving the best penetration were the Brenneke slugs. (They actually over penetrate when used on bushpigs and when hunting bushpigs with hounds in maize crops I use cheaper spanish slugs that do not exit on bush pigs-for fear of hitting another hunter or a dog).

These slugs proved to be so effective and after shooting Gemsbuck, Bluewildebeest, quite a few impala, many warthogs and bushpigs. Longest shot was 87 yards on a one horned impala ram.
I took my double project one step further.

I shortened the barrels from 28 inches to 24 inches, fitted a front site and fitted a ghost ring site at the back.

I now had my leopard back up gun and I carried it on a few follow ups and it is a dream to handle. I still use it for hunting bushpigs in the the thick stuff.

The slugs being so effective I bought two combination guns that became available from above mentioned Uncle Ginger. One in 9.3 x 74R/12ga for myself and one in 7 x 65R/12ga for my 12 year old son. We use these all the time on our bushpig/warthog hunts with excellent results.

Forget about buckshot for hunting/back-up on leopard or bushpigs. They lack the penetration needed, only use slugs. For smaller thin skinned game you can use buckshot(bush buck), AAA duiker size, No.1 smaller duiker.

With slugs, I will use them and have in the past, and had no issues using them. No problem on Leopard or lioness, big male lion may be a different story on a charge situation.

When hunting with slugs you need to remember you are limited on distance and in my case to open sights. If you are patient, enjoy the challenge and practice beforehand and you can use slugs with very good effect.

Not the best option for a African safari, but if you have another primary rifle and want to pack a slug gun for fun and some hunting, no problems pack it in and have fun, you may well be surprised.
I have to weigh in on this.
In 2010, As a police officer in Haines , Alaska I had the displeasure of “dispatching” a nearly 9 foot costal brown bear, at night, with my Scatterguns technology Remington 870.
My ammo was the Brenneke “Black Magic” 3 inch magnum slug. Range was 35-40 feet. Facing straight on. One shot. DRT. Two more because slugs are cheap.
I have only felt as naked and under gunned at the nude beaches in Spain.
Recovered one slug that I still keep.
Would I hunt bear with a slug? No.
I have a 375 H&H for that chore.
Did it work? Indeed.
This account can be verified by contacting the Haines Police Department. Will try to find photos
 
I believe you sir
I have to weigh in on this.
In 2010, As a police officer in Haines , Alaska I had the displeasure of “dispatching” a nearly 9 foot costal brown bear, at night, with my Scatterguns technology Remington 870.
My ammo was the Brenneke “Black Magic” 3 inch magnum slug. Range was 35-40 feet. Facing straight on. One shot. DRT. Two more because slugs are cheap.
I have only felt as naked and under gunned at the nude beaches in Spain.
Recovered one slug that I still keep.
Would I hunt bear with a slug? No.
I have a 375 H&H for that chore.
Did it work? Indeed.
This account can be verified by contacting the Haines Police Department. Will try to find photos
I believe you sir. You killed the bear and you weren’t hurt so that’s all that matters. I killed a 1000 pound moose with a 10 mm Glock 20 ,30 seconds later she was dead as a door nail.
 
Imo slug hunting has always had a social stigma about it. In rifle legal states, people don't even consider them at all. In shotgun only states, people tolerate them despite them performing wonderfully at the most common deer killing distance of 40-75 yards. Some states have gone to straight wall pistol cartridges being legal and folks jumped on buying 44 magnum marlin lever guns just because.

I think a big factor is people just don't want to be seen with them in fear of people what people (who they don't know and will never see again) will think of them...

Now that being said, there are certainly limitations - namely range
 
I have killed whitetail out to 130 yards improved cylinder just with regular slugs. Savage 220 with Remington accutips groups at 200. I see no problem in killing plains game at 100 yards with slugs
 
Imo slug hunting has always had a social stigma about it. In rifle legal states, people don't even consider them at all. In shotgun only states, people tolerate them despite them performing wonderfully at the most common deer killing distance of 40-75 yards. Some states have gone to straight wall pistol cartridges being legal and folks jumped on buying 44 magnum marlin lever guns just because.

I think a big factor is people just don't want to be seen with them in fear of people what people (who they don't know and will never see again) will think of them...

Now that being said, there are certainly limitations - namely range

You think? I'd have thought for similar or less recoil you could take any reasonable deer calibre (270W, 30-'06 etc) you could shoot further and more accurately with a rifle so why would you not carry one if you had one?
 
You think? I'd have thought for similar or less recoil you could take any reasonable deer calibre (270W, 30-'06 etc) you could shoot further and morso why would you not carry one if you had one?

No doubt a standard like a 270, 308, 06 is going to recoil less than a 3" 12ga (about the same in a 20), be cheaper per round to shoot (but you are prob going to shoot more rounds though), and it can shoot further. Of course if you are going to, idk, Wyoming you are going to take a rifle.

Where my thoughts come in is if you are going to Maine/Canada for a black bear hunt.

If you are from a shotgun state and have been very successfully shooting deer with it for decades, why spend the $400-$1000 on a scoped rifle?

But let's also say you are from a shotgun state but have a 270 because you went mule deer hunting a number of years ago. Now you are going to go bear hunting on bait. Yes, I can see the appeal of wanting to shake things up a bit and use your rifle. That being said, I think the shotgun is the better choice. How many people are going to bring the shotgun? My guess, not many. But why not?
 
No doubt a standard like a 270, 308, 06 is going to recoil less than a 3" 12ga (about the same in a 20), be cheaper per round to shoot (but you are prob going to shoot more rounds though), and it can shoot further. Of course if you are going to, idk, Wyoming you are going to take a rifle.

Where my thoughts come in is if you are going to Maine/Canada for a black bear hunt.

If you are from a shotgun state and have been very successfully shooting deer with it for decades, why spend the $400-$1000 on a scoped rifle?

But let's also say you are from a shotgun state but have a 270 because you went mule deer hunting a number of years ago. Now you are going to go bear hunting on bait. Yes, I can see the appeal of wanting to shake things up a bit and use your rifle. That being said, I think the shotgun is the better choice. How many people are going to bring the shotgun? My guess, not many. But why not?

Sounds like you speak sense buddy. I understand that for bear wide, heavy and slow is prefered to narrow, relatively light, hard and fast. Read recently an article of an African PH who went to (I think Maine) to shoot bear which was treed by hounds. Preferred hunting weapon: 12g pump with slugs.

Scrummy
 
I often see posts that tell folks how they need certain minimums for dangerous game. These are laws but it does not mean
lesser calibers and velocities are not capable. I bet the people that jump all over that one were the same kids that were faggot tattle tales. Get real-lol. Let’s put it another way. If an African PH doesn’t let me shoot what I want, he won’t be getting a tip. I could care less what those stupid laws are. And I’m not afraid to give a buffalo less of a handicap. Too many pussies in this world today that fall right in line with what they are told by others. If I’m going to be a sheep than I rather it be by a buffalo that does the slaughtering to me. I’m going to try hog hunting with a knife too. Spears were used in the past, and dangerous game was killed. I mean really. Modern day hunters have a distinct advantage,and most of the time are not going to die on a hunt.
 
I often see posts that tell folks how they need certain minimums for dangerous game. These are laws but it does not mean
lesser calibers and velocities are not capable. I bet the people that jump all over that one were the same kids that were faggot tattle tales. Get real-lol. Let’s put it another way. If an African PH doesn’t let me shoot what I want, he won’t be getting a tip. I could care less what those stupid laws are. And I’m not afraid to give a buffalo less of a handicap. Too many pussies in this world today that fall right in line with what they are told by others. If I’m going to be a sheep than I rather it be by a buffalo that does the slaughtering to me. I’m going to try hog hunting with a knife too. Spears were used in the past, and dangerous game was killed. I mean really. Modern day hunters have a distinct advantage,and most of the time are not going to die on a hunt.
"If an African PH doesn't let me shoot what I want, he won't be getting a tip."

Must be awesome to have this all figured out and to be so vicariously more experienced than the professional responsible for guiding you. Or do you base that on all of your African hunting experience? Also, for the vast majority here, hunting is not about proving some sort of troubled manhood thing. I assume that issue is what informs the contrived tough guy language as well?
 
I often see posts that tell folks how they need certain minimums for dangerous game. These are laws but it does not mean
lesser calibers and velocities are not capable. I bet the people that jump all over that one were the same kids that were faggot tattle tales. Get real-lol. Let’s put it another way. If an African PH doesn’t let me shoot what I want, he won’t be getting a tip. I could care less what those stupid laws are. And I’m not afraid to give a buffalo less of a handicap. Too many pussies in this world today that fall right in line with what they are told by others. If I’m going to be a sheep than I rather it be by a buffalo that does the slaughtering to me. I’m going to try hog hunting with a knife too. Spears were used in the past, and dangerous game was killed. I mean really. Modern day hunters have a distinct advantage,and most of the time are not going to die on a hunt.

Not sure if this was a troll post for the sake of a bit of humor, or if you’re serious.

In either case, there are a few considerations you’re missing.

1.) Respect for fellow man. You shoot whatever you want, however you want, with whatever you want, A.) your PH can lose his license, B.) The operator can get shut down. C.) the wounded animal will potentially find and kill the next kid walking to school or the next anti-poaching patrol that walks through the area.

2.) Respect for the animal. An animal has to die for our enjoyment of hunting. The least we can do is give it a swift, clean death. Beyond getting your trophy, a swift death means the meat isn’t spoiled as a lot of people are reliant upon that meat for feeding their family.

3.) Respect for yourself and your privileges. Doing things the wrong way can get you killed. It will definitely get you banned from a future visit. It will potentially result in your trophies being seized as illegally taken in-country. It potentially will get them seized upon return via the Lacey act.

The great news is there are a host of calibers and configurations suitable for hunting everything on earth. Women, children, and injured men go on safaris all the time with the right tool for the job. 375HH and 404J can be made very mild recoiling, diminishing their average 38-42lbs of felt recoil quite a bit while still being suitable for every dangerous game animal. For leopards and large plains game, the 300HH, the 7x64, 7x65r, 7x57, are all mild recoiling super-killers in that 13-18lbs of felt recoil. For smaller plains game, 6.5x55 and .243 are extraordinary killers for their 6lbs to 9lbs of felt recoil.
 
I often see posts that tell folks how they need certain minimums for dangerous game. These are laws but it does not mean
lesser calibers and velocities are not capable. I bet the people that jump all over that one were the same kids that were faggot tattle tales. Get real-lol. Let’s put it another way. If an African PH doesn’t let me shoot what I want, he won’t be getting a tip. I could care less what those stupid laws are. And I’m not afraid to give a buffalo less of a handicap. Too many pussies in this world today that fall right in line with what they are told by others. If I’m going to be a sheep than I rather it be by a buffalo that does the slaughtering to me. I’m going to try hog hunting with a knife too. Spears were used in the past, and dangerous game was killed. I mean really. Modern day hunters have a distinct advantage,and most of the time are not going to die on a hunt.
So by that metric, should we build aircraft from "whatever junk is available" instead of certified materials? because who cares it will fly.... those "stupid rules" were developed or adapted from rules made by men (especially the kenya hunters of yesteryear), who probably saw and shot more dangerous game than even most professional hunters today get, let alone a visiting sportsmen. You're already hedging your bets using the prescribed calibers...

I believe there are countries in Africa that will allow you go use whatever you want. I remember a an article where the author took a buffalo with a 6.5x54 MS loaded with a 156 grain CEB solid. It wasn't a macho thing for the author though, more of an experimental archaeology of the effectivness of common farmers arms of crop raiding buffalo.

This site probably has more PHs who actually live and work around dangerous game, than anywhere else on the internet. And I would be willing to bet your post attempted to insult a lot of them. AH is one of the best, most courteous forums on the internet. We can have a difference of opinions, but angrily ranting and insulting people who likely have far more experience than you, is like me trying to tell NASA how stupidly built their Mars Rover is because I have a degree in Engineering...
 
Was not intending to insult a PH. They are required to abide or lose their livelihood. I don’t like authority, and I don’t like unnecessary restrictions. I particularly dislike people that give in , and then tell everyone else they have to. Surprised some of you that responded to my post didn’t get that. As for hunting in a proximity where an unharvested wounded animal can attack a kid from school? Ain’t gonna happen with me cause I would only hunt dangerous game where it is remote and unlikely to happen. Or I won’t hunt. Apparently some folks have no problem with others telling them how to live. We all live by laws to maintain order in civilization. But there are many that pass some laws to control you, and get you used to being controlled by them. Kinda like you see with the pandemic. I would think most hunters appreciate freedom. Besides, growing up in Brooklyn,NY we often skirted many rules because the law makers and enforcers regularly broke them. Other than that, if you don’t like my comment- too bad- and I could care less-lol. Happy New Year! Live Free or Die !!!
PS. When I have more time I’ll read all the responses to my post and comment accordingly.
I’m sure some of you might bring saying to yourself at this point: thanks for the warning. Or better yet, hoping I don’t bother at all- LMAO.
 
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For a lot of people today, they think they can reinvent the wheel.
 
So by that metric, should we build aircraft from "whatever junk is available" instead of certified materials? because who cares it will fly.... those "stupid rules" were developed or adapted from rules made by men (especially the kenya hunters of yesteryear), who probably saw and shot more dangerous game than even most professional hunters today get, let alone a visiting sportsmen. You're already hedging your bets using the prescribed calibers...

I believe there are countries in Africa that will allow you go use whatever you want. I remember a an article where the author took a buffalo with a 6.5x54 MS loaded with a 156 grain CEB solid. It wasn't a macho thing for the author though, more of an experimental archaeology of the effectivness of common farmers arms of crop raiding buffalo.

This site probably has more PHs who actually live and work around dangerous game, than anywhere else on the internet. And I would be willing to bet your post attempted to insult a lot of them. AH is one of the best, most courteous forums on the internet. We can have a difference of opinions, but angrily ranting and insulting people who likely have far more experience than you, is like me trying to tell NASA how stupidly built their Mars Rover is because I have a degree in Engineering...
There are African nations that have no restrictions. That part of my comment is for the ones that don’t-lol.
 

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