Shooting Sticks - Accuracy Expectations

[Art Lambart II]

Viper Flex, Viper Flex, Viper Flex, Viper Flex! A match made in heaven with the .375 H&H.

Viper Flex are great shooting sticks, I'm a 4 Stable Stick guy myself, you can buy the basic model for under $65 whats not to like.

 

[wyosteve]

Really appreciate all the insight on this thread even though it just cost me some $$$. Have some Gunstix on order. Need to get some practice in and will use the .22LR suggestion.

 

[One Day...]

Please repost your excellent square up on sticks post that really helped me tremendously!!!

Here it is. Hopefully it will keep being useful

Proper position on sticks

The proper position on sticks is NOT a matter of personal opinion or comfort, it is purely a matter of geometry and application of forces in order to achieve a single purpose: reducing the movements of the barrel.

Tripod

Position of the rifle on the tripod

Incorrect - A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the middle of the stock will amplify the effect of the shooter's body movements on the barrel movements. It creates a central pivot point that allows the rifle to swing freely in every direction (right/left, up/down)*.

* we are not discussing here rifle-vise heavy tripods capable of carrying the entire weight of the rifle for sniping duties, but lightweight hunting tripods.

Correct - A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the end of the stock will minimize the effect of the shooter's body movements on the barrel movements. Observe that the same body sway as illustrated in both positions, results in a significantly smaller barrel movement in the correct position than it does in the incorrect position. This is purely a result of geometry.


Position of the hands when using the tripod

Incorrect – The forend hand risks being cut under recoil by the sling stud, and the forend hand will kick the sticks out of alignment, and possibly down, during recoil with heavy-recoil DG calibers.

Correct – The forend hand is protected by the sticks from the sling stud, and can recoil up with the rifle without kicking the sticks out of alignment during recoil.


Position of the feet when using the tripod

Incorrect - The feet aligned with the center of the tripod do not provide a stable support triangle and will induce sideways body sway.

Correct - The feet positioned to form a wide support triangle with the tripod center will reduce sideways body sway. This is purely a result of geometry.


Angle of the body when using the tripod

Incorrect – A straight back balancing on the legs does not stabilize the shooter’s body and induces sway.

Correct – Leaning forward heavily on the tripod stabilizes the shooter’s body and reduces sway. By leaning on the tripod, the shooter rests the upper body weight against it and reduces the upper body movements. This is purely a result of gravitational forces application.


Quadpod (Quad Sticks)

The quadpod offers a significant advantage compared to the tripod. While the tripod supports only the front end of the rifle, allowing the rear end to sway with the body of the shooter, the quadpod supports both front and rear ends of the rifle, eliminating sideways sway entirely.

However, frontward/backward sway is still mechanically possible and the feet positions must be different from those of the tripod position to mitigate it.

Incorrect - Feet positioned in a box with the quadpod legs will induce forward/backward body sway and will cause the rifle to tilt downward/upward as the quadpod pivots on the two points where the four legs join.

Correct - Feet positioned in line with the rifle and in a triangle with the quadpod legs will reduce forward/backward body sway and rifle tilting down/up. This position is the opposite of the correct position with the tripod, because the quadpod allows forward/backward sway. This sway is limited by the shooter's feet being positioned in the front/back axis, while sideways sway is eliminated by the quadpod front and rear support.


This is why the "quadpod with a fifth leg", the quintpod to call it correctly, provides additional mechanical stability because its fifth leg, illustrated here under in yellow under the front of the rifle, prevents the quadpod from rocking forward/backward on the two pivot points where the four legs join.

The drawback for the quintpod total lateral and longitudinal stability is a slower deployment and the awkwardness of adjusting the quintpod position once deployed.

Best stability but slow deployment - the fifth leg (yellow) of the quintpod adds longitudinal stability to the quadpod lateral stability.


Final words...

Regular practice is critical, and shooting form is not acquired only with expensive-to-shoot hunting rifles. A good quality .22 LR will provide all the shooting form training required, directly translatable to center fire rifles.

A well practiced shooter will reliably shoot 2 MOA from quad sticks, which translates in hunting ethically the smallest of big game with a 6" vital area out to 300 yards from the sticks.

 

[Bush Buck]

Hi One Day,

It had not occurred to me that a change in foot position would help with the quad sticks. I have since practiced your technique and my quad stick shooting has definitely improved.
Thanks for the tip!

 

[khesser]

Good breakdown on how to use sticks but are they really needed with modern tripods today that offer better stability? Seen this post this morning and great to see an outfitter picking up on what those of us who shoot competitively have been doing for many years now.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1093098549489888&id=100063692587509

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Practice shooting from sticks is always one of the first pieces of advice heard about preparing for a safari. I did not really do it before my first hunting trip to Africa. I have been leading up to our next hunt though.

Target below is from yesterday with my M70 30-06 at 100 yards. Top is from a table top with a sand bag (Would have been a sub MOA group if I had quit after 3 shots LOL!) Bottom is from 100 yards off of sticks.

I am shooting 2-3 inch groups pretty consistently off of the sticks. Field conditions and adrenaline when hunting will likely cause the groups to open up more. Bottom line is right now I am not comfortable taking a shot a animal at much past 100 yards from the sticks.


View attachment 636990

Looks like you’re good to go!

Don’t over think it. Practice some basics. Get a snap cap and make certain you are not canting your rifle, not over gripping, not “pulling” your trigger vs putting pressure on it to get the correct break point, and a little breathing exercises help. Try getting on the sticks as quick as possible and set to make your best shot. Practice those shots. Have someone help you by setting up the sticks for you like your PH will.

Use the same sticks your PH uses or is likely too…

Bad shots are usually rushed and taken under some duress. It’s ok to pass or not chose to make a bad shot. Wounding an animal and having it run off and not recovered would be a real bummer and expensive -depending on the animal.

 

[Philip Glass]

Practice shooting from sticks is always one of the first pieces of advice heard about preparing for a safari. I did not really do it before my first hunting trip to Africa. I have been leading up to our next hunt though.

Target below is from yesterday with my M70 30-06 at 100 yards. Top is from a table top with a sand bag (Would have been a sub MOA group if I had quit after 3 shots LOL!) Bottom is from 100 yards off of sticks.

I am shooting 2-3 inch groups pretty consistently off of the sticks. Field conditions and adrenaline when hunting will likely cause the groups to open up more. Bottom line is right now I am not comfortable taking a shot a animal at much past 100 yards from the sticks.


View attachment 636990

You are doing great and keep practicing!

 

[Deepfork]

Good breakdown on how to use sticks but are they really needed with modern tripods today that offer better stability? Seen this post this morning and great to see an outfitter picking up on what those of us who shoot competitively have been doing for many years now.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1093098549489888&id=100063692587509

Curious, what tripod are you talking about. I have a couple of tripods, one you clamp the rifle in, the other is a V you just set the rifle in place. Neither works as well for me as the quad sticks. Plus with the ones I have it would not be practical to carry them around all day. My quad sticks weigh 2lbs and are a walking stick when not deployed.

 

[khesser]

Curious, what tripod are you talking about. I have a couple of tripods, one you clamp the rifle in, the other is a V you just set the rifle in place. Neither works as well for me as the quad sticks. Plus with the ones I have it would not be practical to carry them around all day. My quad sticks weigh 2lbs and are a walking stick when not deployed.

The RRS TFCT 33 is my go to for hunting. Stability is unmatched when clamped in.

TFCT Tripod

Experience the TFCT Tripod by RRS, engineered for remarkable stability and endurance, ensuring optimal performance in all outdoor settings.

rrssoar.com

When in Africa my PH carried my tripod instead of his sticks with legs deployed so I could quickly get on it for a standing shot. My rifle has an ARCA rail so it clamps in rock solid. What Redsand Safari’s shows in the pictures is a plate clamped into the tripod that you set a sand bag on then rest the rifle on the bag. For rifles without a arca rail or say you have a rifle with a lot of recoil the sand bag method works great and is very steady. Hog saddles or V you set the rifle in don’t off the same stability.
Now the RRS tripod is slightly heavier than most sticks but not enough that it outweighs the benefits.

 

[wyosteve]

Want to give many thanks to DLSJR and One Day. Wow, is all I can say. A little backstory-I did a N.M. oryx hunt last year and first thing when I arrived is the guide put my rifle in a 'deathgrip' type tripod. I had never shot off a tripod or sticks before. I tried it and didn't feel very confident in being able to hit at distance. As it turned out, the oryx I ended up shooting was only 89 yards away. Fast forward to this year. I head back down in a month and wanted to practice shooting off sticks. So, taking the suggestion of DLSJR, I ordered some GunStix which arrived Monday. Took them out today for the first time and used One Day's 'proper position' information. Attached is my first effort at 100 yds. with .300 Win. Mag. To say I'm not only pleased, but confident would be an understatement. Now I'll get in some more shooting at distance before I leave, and will feel comfortable using sticks from now on. Thanks again. For some reason the pic is rotated. The group is about 1.5 inches high, not left like it shows.

 

[Deepfork]

The RRS TFCT 33 is my go to for hunting. Stability is unmatched when clamped in.

TFCT Tripod

Experience the TFCT Tripod by RRS, engineered for remarkable stability and endurance, ensuring optimal performance in all outdoor settings.

rrssoar.com

When in Africa my PH carried my tripod instead of his sticks with legs deployed so I could quickly get on it for a standing shot. My rifle has an ARCA rail so it clamps in rock solid. What Redsand Safari’s shows in the pictures is a plate clamped into the tripod that you set a sand bag on then rest the rifle on the bag. For rifles without a arca rail or say you have a rifle with a lot of recoil the sand bag method works great and is very steady. Hog saddles or V you set the rifle in don’t off the same stability.
Now the RRS tripod is slightly heavier than most sticks but not enough that it outweighs the benefits.

I'm just going to be blunt here. I am never going to carry a rail mounted rifle hunting, I am never going to expect my PH to walk around with a large tripod with "legs deployed" , I am never going to pay 1,500 USD for a tripod. This all seems like turning hunting into target shooting to me. Even on my one trip to Africa to date and often when I am hunting at home what you describe would not be practical.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I'm just going to be blunt here. I am never going to carry a rail mounted rifle hunting, I am never going to expect my PH to walk around with a large tripod with "legs deployed" , I am never going to pay 1,500 USD for a tripod. This all seems like turning hunting into target shooting to me. Even on my one trip to Africa to date and often when I am hunting at home what you describe would not be practical.

I’m glad you said it, because I had a hard time appreciating the effort for what was described. I always say “to each their own”.

With that said, I’ve shot off sticks, offhand, off termite mounds, sides of trees, trucks, bi-pod, my pack - a lot, prone laying in shit and mud in the rain, and I too recently shot off a tripod in SA with a grip type support… The tripod was brought out at the drop off site and set up in our night blind so I could shoot sitting from a chair. I didn’t shoot that night, but it made for a nice rest.

I didn’t expect my PH to walk 3-5 miles with it and deploy it so I can shoot standing up in lieu of shooting sticks, but I’m sure it would be pretty nice if the opportunity presented. No way I would ask him to do that. Henk would probably laugh at me if I did. Plus, he’s bigger and younger than I am, so I’m careful not to insult him!

To each their own…

 

[khesser]

I'm just going to be blunt here. I am never going to carry a rail mounted rifle hunting, I am never going to expect my PH to walk around with a large tripod with "legs deployed" , I am never going to pay 1,500 USD for a tripod. This all seems like turning hunting into target shooting to me. Even on my one trip to Africa to date and often when I am hunting at home what you describe would not be practical.

To each their own but most don’t get it till they actually use the system. But you don’t need a rail, a bag on top like the PH I posted about also works incredibly well. And the for walking around legs deployed how is that any different than sticks, especially quad sticks already setup for the shooter? I seen my PH and video of others have legs on sticks deployed and ready for a standing shot. And honestly the RRS tripod collapsed is just as quick to deploy as most sticks I have played with. Hunting into target shooting is an odd statement since I thought the goal was to place a shot accurately enough to get a clean and quick kill. Sticks help achieve this and these tripod setups just do it better. Great thing about something like the RRS tripod setup is that it can be used for glassing as well as a stable shooting platform. Something sticks just are not going to provide. There are less expensive options if cost is a concern.

 

[WAB]

Part of the allure of Africa is going back to another time. Carbon fibre quad sticks, rails, etc. are antithetical to the experience I am after and totally unnecessary at the shooting distances I have encountered.

 

[Deepfork]

Part of the allure of Africa is going back to another time. Carbon fibre quad sticks, rails, etc. are antithetical to the experience I am after and totally unnecessary at the shooting distances I have encountered.

African Sporting Creations has a variety of shooting sticks made of wood.

 

[BigSteve57]

I'm just going to be blunt here. I am never going to carry a rail mounted rifle hunting, I am never going to expect my PH to walk around with a large tripod with "legs deployed" , I am never going to pay 1,500 USD for a tripod. This all seems like turning hunting into target shooting to me. Even on my one trip to Africa to date and often when I am hunting at home what you describe would not be practical.

The PH that hosted us required sticks and made that clear before we got to Africa. He supplied and carried the sticks which were of the 2 legged variety. Neither of us had hunted with sticks or used them before. So we target practiced extensively using our own sticks of the same type which we acquired before the trip; what surprised us was that sticks were not an automatic 1/2 MOA grouping. It really took quite a bit of practice for us to consider ourselves competent with them.

There were only 2 cases where I did not use sticks and that was the harvest of my Springbok and Kudu which were taken prone and offhand, respectively.

 

[Velo Dog]

I am confused by the appeal of these new 4 pt sticks. Conventional sticks are much faster, easier to adjust to a moving target, and with a little practice, easily capable of 300+ yard shots.

Fellow Hunters,

I am +1 with WAB, AZDAVE and perhaps others, on the shooting sticks topic here.

I have tried this newest trend, (multi-point shooting sticks), shown below in the first photo.
If this design is what some members are endorsing, (possibly called “Quad Sticks”), I salute you for being able to sort these out and set them up quickly on rough ground.
And I mean no disrespect to anyone for the following description of my disappointing experience with them.
“One man’s bread is another man’s poison”.

At the rifle range, while standing on a flat concrete slab, once I finally got them set up, these were somewhat more stable than the simple bipod type shooting sticks.
“Somewhat” being the key word here, not a huge amount more stable.

Then, away from the hard flat surface, I found them not only too slow to deploy but, quite unsteady on rough ground as well, a veritable see-saw / teeter-totter of frustration and lost opportunity.

I fully admit that I am possessed of little to no fine motor skills.
In other words, I’m a knuckle dragging oaf.
Nonetheless, I can shoot well from field positions, including from standing with bipod.
Therefore, I will stay with what works for me, the simple bipod type of shooting sticks.

I’ve made them, literally from sticks (bamboo is my favorite) and duct tape.
Then later, a vacuum cleaner rubber drive belt in place of the tape.
I also have a stand up length bipod that I made from two, 6 foot long plastic garden stakes, again bound together with a smallish rubber drive belt.
Said garden stakes are about .45 inch or 11.5 MM in thickness.
These home made shooting sticks are too long and awkward to carry anywhere except from home to rifle range and back again.

Shown in my 2nd photo attached below, are my store bought shooting sticks.
These are very portable and very light weight.
They’re made by Stony Point and not only inexpensive but well made and surprisingly sturdy considering their low price (at least low price back when I bought them).

Other companies make very similar simple but sturdy bipods as well.
Stony Point was the least expensive of the well made ones at the time I bought mine.

Anyway, I guess that’s about all the news that’s fit to print around here.

Cheers for now,
Velo Dog.

 

[375Ruger416]

To each their own but most don’t get it till they actually use the system. But you don’t need a rail, a bag on top like the PH I posted about also works incredibly well. And the for walking around legs deployed how is that any different than sticks, especially quad sticks already setup for the shooter? I seen my PH and video of others have legs on sticks deployed and ready for a standing shot. And honestly the RRS tripod collapsed is just as quick to deploy as most sticks I have played with. Hunting into target shooting is an odd statement since I thought the goal was to place a shot accurately enough to get a clean and quick kill. Sticks help achieve this and these tripod setups just do it better. Great thing about something like the RRS tripod setup is that it can be used for glassing as well as a stable shooting platform. Something sticks just are not going to provide. There are less expensive options if cost is a concern.

I took my Gunwerks Nexus in 300 PRC on my plains game hunt in Namibia last month. It has an integral arca rail and I used the Revic Hunter Tripod with a quick mount for the ARCA rail. I'd practiced with it quite a bit and my PH was quite impressed with it. Most of my shots were 80-120 yds so it was more than necessary but I was very confident and comfortable in all my hunting scenarios. I shot a jackal offhand (sling support) and a baboon at 270 yds off a bipod otherwise all shots were off the tripod.

In addition to the 'hurry up and get in position and take the shot' scenarios I experienced, I also had to spend several minutes on target waiting for the target animal to clear others or come out behind trees/shrubs. The additional stability of the arca/carbon system was a great advantage. Modern materials like carbon fiber/aluminum etc. feel sturdy and well-made in my hands. I have used a number of shooting sticks/bipods etc and for me the slight increase in weight is worth it for the stability they offer.

I wouldn't use or recommend them for DG hunting, but for PG hunting they are a great option. They can greatly enhance your probability of a clean hit standing, sitting, kneeling and even prone when you get comfortable with them. The biggest drawback is cost and their modern appearance - for those of us with more traditional tastes. I hunted with a suppressed bolt action made of carbon fiber, aluminum, and leather using a carbon fiber tripod and a cartridge released in the last 10 years so that's clearly not me.

The Spartan Precision bipods, tripods, and Springbok bipods are a great option as well and what I plan to use with my Blaser R8. My dealer confirmed that the integral blaser mount for their bipod system will work with these. The rare earth magnet that attaches the rifle to the bipod/tripod/quad sticks really helps stabilize the whole system.

SpringBok Quad Sticks

The SpringBok shooting sticks provide unsurpassed stability and control with two points of contact on your rifle. The innovative silicone body design allows rapid shooting position changes, while the wide rear cradle and MagnaSwitch™ rifle quick detach system offer a vast lateral movement range...

javelinbipod.com

 

[Deepfork]

After another 150 rounds off of the Rudolph PH quad sticks this is pretty typical of what I get with my 338-06AI and .35 Whelen. This is six shots at 100 yards, .35 Whelen 245gr Stone Hammer at 2807fps. North/South spread is 1 5/8. Nature of the sticks I think, left and right is pretty locked in.

 

[HUNTROMANIA]

For better stability I like the shooting stick to touch my hip. ( belly, etc)
I don’t rest my body on the stick, only the gun is resting. Many hunters are pressing the stick with their weight, some of the sticks are not very stabile if you press them.