Shooting Sticks - Accuracy Expectations

[Denvir Tire]

With a bipod this statement is accurate because you’re supporting the rifle at two spots. Bipod in the front and your shoulder or sand bag in the rear. Further forward you can mount your bipod the better. However when shooting off a tripod where your only support is the actual tripod you want to place your rifle on the tripod at the balance point of the rifle so the tripod is doing the support. If you place the rifle on the tripod as far forward as the stock allows then you have to support the rear and that will never be as steady as if you place the rifle on the tripod at its balance point. View attachment 637212

 

[khesser]

@khesser

Most are talking about lightweight sticks that can be carried all day and set up instantly. Shots often taken from standing within a few seconds. Different gear than a hog saddle or other locking type of tripod used for PRS. Nice gear in you pic, btw. My Atlas is the same model.

He said tripod so I figured it was possible he was talking about an actual tripod and not the tripod sticks.

 

[sureshot375]

Being able to shoot small groups off sticks isn’t really a skill you need. If you can keep them in a 6” circle you are golden.

It depends on where you are hunting and the terrain, but I’ve not seen the need to shoot much past 100 on sticks.

The longer shots I have seen have been from hills and rocks where you can get down into some better position than off the sticks.

You are right to practice off the sticks, but you shouldn’t be discouraged by your group size.

Work on getting on the sticks and acquiring your target quickly and efficiently. This is the most important skill for your success. If you can do that you won’t feel as rushed when the time comes. The key is to be fast without rushing.

I also advocate for practicing with all kinds of improvised rest: trees, packs, jackets, sitting, kneeling, or whatever. The ability to quickly get into some kind of stabilish position with whatever you have available will pay off in the field.

 

[coreydb]

I'm an average shooter who shoots off sticks. The more points on the ground, the more stable the rifle. Practice breathing techniques and trigger pull at the distances you are comfortable with, or expect to shoot your trophy. Keep in mind the kill zone is the size of a 10 in. dinner plate

 

[Green Chile]

You are right to practice off the sticks, but you shouldn’t be discouraged by your group size.

Work on getting on the sticks and acquiring your target quickly and efficiently. This is the most important skill for your success. If you can do that you won’t feel as rushed when the time comes. The key is to be fast without rushing.

Well said. I don't worry much about group accuracy when practicing from field positions. Can I hit close to the aiming point and do it smoothly without delay? I keep practicing that, so I do get a group of sorts but my intention is repeating that activity and getting more comfortable with it as opposed to getting a group on paper. I might do that 10 or 20 times on the same aiming point. The group itself is not my goal.

 

[375er]

Quad Sticks, Quad Sticks, Quad Sticks what more can I say, they are the best thing to happen to safari hunting since the introduction of the 375 H&H.

Viper Flex, Viper Flex, Viper Flex, Viper Flex! A match made in heaven with the .375 H&H.

 

[sgt_zim]

He said tripod so I figured it was possible he was talking about an actual tripod and not the tripod sticks.

What @shootist~ said.

We only need minute-of-zebra. If there is only going to be a single balance point for a rifle, that balance point should be as far forward on the rifle as you can make it.

Whether the shooting sticks have 2 legs or 3, there will always be a little muzzle wobble, and that's minimized when most of the rifle is behind the fulcrum.

The other thing that helps greatly when shooting off of sticks, at least for me, is to make sure the sticks are extended and configured so that I'm standing nearly perfectly erect. If the shooter is bent forward very far, he's relying on muscles from his thighs to his chest (especially lower back and abdominals, notoriously weak muscle groups even for people who are in good shape; but also glutes and hip flexors) to hold up his weight and to hold steady aim. Standing erect, all of the weight of the body is being supported by bone, making it a great deal easier to be relaxed. It takes a quite a bit less effort to hold a rifle steady in the vertical plane when the shooter is so positioned.

 

[One Day...]

What to expect ?

For each or us, the expectations are personal. They depend on rifle, optics, ammo, equipment, formal training or not, long experience or not, and above all: regular training or not. I am sure some expect better than what I expect, and that is OK with me. On the other hand, hunting is not sniping or Camp Perry, and shooting 1/4 MOA is vastly irrelevant to it.

For me, the expectations, based on what I learned from my own experience, are as follows.

Bench rest with double sand bags - 1/2 MOA to 1 MOA.

It is the rare modern, CNC-machined production rifle that does not hold 1 MOA and often 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with modern CNC-loaded commercial quality ammo.

Blaser R8 .375 H&H, Barnes factory ammo 300 gr TSX, 100 yards, bench.

But, in truth, whether a hunting rifle groups off the bench 1/2 MOA (1/2" @ 100 yards) or 3/4 MOA (3/4" @ 100 yards) or 1 MOA (1" @ 100 yards) is utterly irrelevant to me because at this stage the rifle is better than the shooter in virtually any hunting condition*.

* I do not consider snipping at game at whatever distance with military-style rifles, Kestrel weather station, ballistic software application, spotter to read the wind and walk the shots to the animal, etc. as "hunting".

But there are precious few bench rests and sand bags in the bush, so once the rifle is sighted, burning ammo from sand bags on a bench is completely useless... so let's move one.

Field rest - 1 MOA

They do not exist everywhere, but it is amazing how often, when looking for them, we can find very solid field rests: sprawling over big boulders in mountain hunts; leaning against trees; seating with the rifle on top of a tall backpack; kneeling and grabbing a strong sapling with the forearm hand; etc. without forgetting the African favorite: leaning over the "bakkie" (truck) hood.

Blaser R8 .257 Wby, Weatherby factory ammo 100 gr TTSX, 100 yards, field rest.

Blaser R8 .300 Wby, Weatherby factory ammo 165gr TTSX, 100 yards, field rest.

But there are places where there are no field rests within reach, especially in Africa, so many of us had to learn a new skill: shooting standing...

Off-hand standing, no support whatsoever - 6 MOA at best !?!?!?

It is a really good day for me if I stay within 6 MOA (= 6" @ 100 yards = 12" @ 200 yards etc.), and I know a fair number of folks who struggle to stay within a 10" paper plate (10 MOA).

I therefore never shoot standing off-hand at game except in a few very specific situations: really close on a follow up (wounded animal that springs up at 10 yards), or charging animal, which I have so far never needed to do.

Tripod - 2 MOA to 3 MOA.

I used to practice with .22 LR from a tripod on a 6" steel plate @ 100 yards. It became boring because I hit the plate 100% of the time.

So I shifted practice to 200 and 300 yards with the same 6" plate when I shifted to the Blaser R8 and got a .223 Rem barrel in addition to my hunting barrels. Hitting the 6" plate at 200 yards is a 3 MOA shot. Hitting the 6" plate at 300 yards is a 2 MOA shot.

I can confidently say that from a tripod, I did NOT hit the 6" plate at 300 yards 100%. I hovered around the 80%+ (4 hits out of 5 shots). Conversely, it was a rare day when I did not hit the 6"plate at 200 yards 100%. Hence, the data says that the tripod makes me a ~2.5 MOA shooter.

Blaser R8 .223 Rem, 55 gr bulk American Eagle factory ammo, 200 and 300 yards, 6" steel plate, training off tripod.

Translated to Africa, the tripod, the traditional "PH sticks" provides all the support any shot on DG may ever require.

Blaser R8 .458 Lott, Barnes factory ammo 500gr TSX, 100 yards, tripod.

But while DG is rarely shot further than 100 yards, PG often is, and the tripod suffers one major drawback: it only stabilizes the front of the rifle.

Quadpod (quad sticks) - 1.5 MOA to 2 MOA.

We recently built our retirement home on 10 acres and I now have my own private 100 yards range. In order to not bother the folks living around, I limit myself to .22 LR. I discovered that the nail guns the crew used to frame the house are more noisy that Eley Club ammo, so this is really innocuous. To spice things up a bit, I built a new target with 5", 4" and 3" steel plates.

Boy did I re-learn ... again!

1. Turns out that practicing a lot shooting the 6" plate at 100 yards, regardless of caliber, made me complacent. The crosshair can hover all over the 6" plate and the shot still hit. I had unlearned keeping the crosshair absolutely still. The 3" plate will not forgive that mistake.
2. "Aim small, miss small". Interestingly, the group size shrinks as the plate size shrinks. Like it or not, even when I know that I should concentrate just as much regardless of the target size, the fact is that I am still complacent on the 5" and 4" plates.
3. It is actually easier than I thought to ring the 3" plate 100% (5 hits for 5 shots), at least with the .22 LR (recoil is not a factor) when I pay attention, and the plate says that I am actually shooting way less than its 3", hence, the data says that the quad sticks make me a 1.5 to 2 MOA shooter.

Blaser R8 .22 LR, Eley Club ammo, 100 yards, 5", 4" and 3" steel plates, training off quad sticks. Aim small, miss small !

To answer WAB's question, why does the quad sticks make us better shooters?

I am confused by the appeal of these new 4 pt sticks. Conventional sticks are much faster, easier to adjust to a moving target, and with a little practice, easily capable of 300+ yard shots.

I believe that the answer is simple: the tripod stabilizes the front end of the rifle, but the rear end still wobbles with our unsupported shoulder. The quad sticks support both front end and rear end.

My personal experience is that moving from tripod to quadpod shrank my groups by at least 1 MOA. I am very confident that I can under virtually any circumstance shoot 2 MOA - and often less - from the quad sticks, which means that I can ethically shoot an animal with a 6" vital area (i.e. the smallest of plains game aside from Tiny Tens) out to 300 yards standing with the quad sticks. With the tripod, I will kill cleanly all the time at 300 yards a wildebeest (10" vital area), but not always a small impala (6" vital area). With the quadpod I will. That is the difference.

I personally use the 4 Stable Sticks. I splurged on the carbon version ($250) because when I fly to Africa, every ounce counts, but I advise the aluminum version to friends in the US who do not need to fly with them. With a minimum of training, they are just as fast to use as the tripod.

I am not sure what the pistol grip adds to the Blaser sticks, I prefer to hold the rifle forearm, and I am a bit offended by their price ($450). The other thing that I do not like in the Blaser sticks is that if you hold the pistol grip you need to change hold to reload, and if you hold the rifle you need to change hold to grab the pistol grip and pivot it. With the 4 Stable Sticks you can do everything with the same hold on the rifle forend

Trade off!

In the 4 Stable Sticks design, the four legs are joined in two points on the ground. This allows for tilting the rifle up or down instantly, which is very useful in uneven terrain,, and this allows rotating the sticks instantly left or right, by pivoting on one point, which is also very useful on moving game.

Credit: 4 Stable Sticks

Conversely, the Viper Flex has a fifth leg that prevents the rifle from tilting up or down. This provides yet another point of stability. The drawback is that it is inevitably slower to deploy, and more difficult to reposition on the fly once the rifle is on it.

Each will have their own preference. My personal view is that the Viper Flex is mechanically more stable, but that the 4 Stable Sticks are faster, and that once I pull solidly the rifle in my shoulder-pocket (which I need to do anyway to control recoil), the 4 Stable Sticks are just as stable as the Viper Flex. Others may favor the opposite tradeoff, for more mechanical stability and less speed.

Credit: Viper Flex

 

[375Fox]

What to expect ?

For each or us, the expectations are personal. They depend on rifle, optics, ammo, equipment, formal training or not, long experience or not, and above all: regular training or not. I am sure some expect better than what I expect, and that is OK with me. On the other hand, hunting is not sniping or Camp Perry, and shooting 1/4 MOA is vastly irrelevant to it.

For me, the expectations, based on what I learned from my own experience, are as follows.

Bench rest with double sand bags - 1/2 MOA to 1 MOA.

It is the rare modern, CNC-machined production rifle that does not hold 1 MOA and often 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with modern CNC-loaded commercial quality ammo.

View attachment 637292
Blaser R8 .375 H&H, Barnes factory ammo 300 gr TSX, 100 yards, bench.

But, in truth, whether a hunting rifle groups off the bench 1/2 MOA (1/2" @ 100 yards) or 3/4 MOA (3/4" @ 100 yards) or 1 MOA (1" @ 100 yards) is utterly irrelevant to me because at this stage the rifle is better than the shooter in virtually any hunting condition*.

* I do not consider snipping at game at whatever distance with military-style rifles, Kestrel weather station, ballistic software application, spotter to read the wind and walk the shots to the animal, etc. as "hunting".

But there are precious few bench rests and sand bags in the bush, so once the rifle is sighted, burning ammo from sand bags on a bench is completely useless... so let's move one.

Field rest - 1 MOA

They do not exist everywhere, but it is amazing how often, when looking for them, we can find very solid field rests: sprawling over big boulders in mountain hunts; leaning against trees; seating with the rifle on top of a tall backpack; kneeling and grabbing a strong sapling with the forearm hand; etc. without forgetting the African favorite: leaning over the "bakkie" (truck) hood.

View attachment 637294
Blaser R8 .257 Wby, Weatherby factory ammo 100 gr TTSX, 100 yards, field rest.

View attachment 637295
Blaser R8 .300 Wby, Weatherby factory ammo 165gr TTSX, 100 yards, field rest.

But there are places where there are no field rests within reach, especially in Africa, so many of us had to learn a new skill: shooting standing...

Off-hand standing, no support whatsoever - 6 MOA at best !?!?!?

It is a really good day for me if I stay within 6 MOA (= 6" @ 100 yards = 12" @ 200 yards etc.), and I know a fair number of folks who struggle to stay within a 10" paper plate (10 MOA).

I therefore never shoot standing off-hand at game except in a few very specific situations: really close on a follow up (wounded animal that springs up at 10 yards), or charging animal, which I have so far never needed to do.

Tripod - 2 MOA to 3 MOA.

I used to practice with .22 LR from a tripod on a 6" steel plate @ 100 yards. It became boring because I hit the plate 100% of the time.

So I shifted practice to 200 and 300 yards with the same 6" plate when I shifted to the Blaser R8 and got a .223 Rem barrel in addition to my hunting barrels. Hitting the 6" plate at 200 yards is a 3 MOA shot. Hitting the 6" plate at 300 yards is a 2 MOA shot.

I can confidently say that from a tripod, I did NOT hit the 6" plate at 300 yards 100%. I hovered around the 80%+ (4 hits out of 5 shots). Conversely, it was a rare day when I did not hit the 6"plate at 200 yards 100%. Hence, the data says that the tripod makes me a ~2.5 MOA shooter.

View attachment 637285
Blaser R8 .223 Rem, 55 gr bulk American Eagle factory ammo, 200 and 300 yards, 6" steel plate, training off tripod.

Translated to Africa, the tripod, the traditional "PH sticks" provides all the support any shot on DG may ever require.

View attachment 637311
Blaser R8 .458 Lott, Barnes factory ammo 500gr TSX, 100 yards, tripod.

But while DG is rarely shot further than 100 yards, PG often is, and the tripod suffers one major drawback: it only stabilizes the front of the rifle.

Quadpod (quad sticks) - 1.5 MOA to 2 MOA.

We recently built our retirement home on 10 acres and I now have my own private 100 yards range. In order to not bother the folks living around, I limit myself to .22 LR. I discovered that the nail guns the crew used to frame the house are more noisy that Eley Club ammo, so this is really innocuous. To spice things up a bit, I built a new target with 5", 4" and 3" steel plates.

Boy did I re-learn ... again!

1. Turns out that practicing a lot shooting the 6" plate at 100 yards, regardless of caliber, made me complacent. The crosshair can hover all over the 6" plate and the shot still hit. I had unlearned keeping the crosshair absolutely still. The 3" plate will not forgive that mistake.
2. "Aim small, miss small". Interestingly, the group size shrinks as the plate size shrinks. Like it or not, even when I know that I should concentrate just as much regardless of the target size, the fact is that I am still complacent on the 5" and 4" plates.
3. It is actually easier than I thought to ring the 3" plate 100% (5 hits for 5 shots), at least with the .22 LR (recoil is not a factor) when I pay attention, and the plate says that I am actually shooting way less than its 3", hence, the data says that the quad sticks make me a 1.5 to 2 MOA shooter.

View attachment 637296
Blaser R8 .22 LR, Eley Club ammo, 100 yards, 5", 4" and 3" steel plates, training off quad sticks. Aim small, miss small !

To answer WAB's question, why does the quad sticks make us better shooters?



I believe that the answer is simple: the tripod stabilizes the front end of the rifle, but the rear end still wobbles with our unsupported shoulder. The quad sticks support both front end and rear end.

My personal experience is that moving from tripod to quadpod shrank my groups by at least 1 MOA. I am very confident that I can under virtually any circumstance shoot 2 MOA - and often less - from the quad sticks, which means that I can ethically shoot an animal with a 6" vital area (i.e. the smallest of plains game aside from Tiny Tens) out to 300 yards standing with the quad sticks. With the tripod, I will kill cleanly all the time at 300 yards a wildebeest (10" vital area), but not always a small impala (6" vital area). With the quadpod I will. That is the difference.

I personally use the 4 Stable Sticks. I splurged on the carbon version ($250) because when I fly to Africa, every ounce counts, but I advise the aluminum version to friends in the US who do not need to fly with them. With a minimum of training, they are just as fast to use as the tripod.

I am not sure what the pistol grip adds to the Blaser sticks, I prefer to hold the rifle forearm, and I am a bit offended by their price ($450).

View attachment 637303


Trade off!

In the 4 Stable Sticks design, the four legs are joined in two points on the ground. This allows for tilting the rifle up or down instantly, which is very useful in uneven terrain,, and this allows rotating the sticks instantly left or right, by pivoting on one point, which is also very useful on moving game.
View attachment 637310
Credit: 4 Stable Sticks

Conversely, the Viper Flex has a fifth leg that prevents the rifle from tilting up or down. This provides yet another point of stability. The drawback is that it is inevitably slower to deploy, and more difficult to reposition on the fly once the rifle is on it.

Each will have their own preference. My personal view is that the Viper Flex is mechanically more stable, but that the 4 Stable Sticks are faster, and that once I pull solidly the rifle in my shoulder-pocket (which I need to do anyway to control recoil), the 4 Stable Sticks are just as stable as the Viper Flex. Others may favor the opposite tradeoff, for more mechanical stability and less speed.

View attachment 637309
Credit: Viper Flex

I’ve put a lot of time into getting good with quad sticks. Interesting your observations on 4 stable sticks vs viper flex and aluminum vs carbon. Those are exactly the conclusions I came to as well. Learning to pivot and correctly hold the rifle really increases the mobility of the sticks. I found 4 stable sticks gave me the most flexibility as well and are my preferred quad stick. There is certain ground they aren’t suited to however. I had to use tripod in Cameroon because the worm mounds on ground prevented pivoting, but I haven’t found ground in Southern Africa they weren’t suited to yet.

 

[shootist~]

Viper-Flex Quads today (no 5th leg):

My nephew was in town and we did our annual range trip. He only discovered shooting about 5 or 6 years ago and is now into pistol, rifle and shotgun (all at once). More clays than metalic after he retired about 3 years ago.

He shoots rifle strictly from the bench.

I had him try my newish quad sticks (standing) using my 22 on a 6" swinger at 100 meters. No issues at all getting consistant hits.

 

[375er]

Note: the fifth leg on the Viper Flex is easliy removed making the set up identical to four stable sticks. I have shot accurately on the 4 leg set up out to 300 yds. The fifth leg will get you to 400 standing.

 

[Rare Breed]

What to expect ?

For each or us, the expectations are personal. They depend on rifle, optics, ammo, equipment, formal training or not, long experience or not, and above all: regular training or not. I am sure some expect better than what I expect, and that is OK with me. On the other hand, hunting is not sniping or Camp Perry, and shooting 1/4 MOA is vastly irrelevant to it.

For me, the expectations, based on what I learned from my own experience, are as follows.

Bench rest with double sand bags - 1/2 MOA to 1 MOA.

It is the rare modern, CNC-machined production rifle that does not hold 1 MOA and often 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with modern CNC-loaded commercial quality ammo.

View attachment 637292
Blaser R8 .375 H&H, Barnes factory ammo 300 gr TSX, 100 yards, bench.

But, in truth, whether a hunting rifle groups off the bench 1/2 MOA (1/2" @ 100 yards) or 3/4 MOA (3/4" @ 100 yards) or 1 MOA (1" @ 100 yards) is utterly irrelevant to me because at this stage the rifle is better than the shooter in virtually any hunting condition*.

* I do not consider snipping at game at whatever distance with military-style rifles, Kestrel weather station, ballistic software application, spotter to read the wind and walk the shots to the animal, etc. as "hunting".

But there are precious few bench rests and sand bags in the bush, so once the rifle is sighted, burning ammo from sand bags on a bench is completely useless... so let's move one.

Field rest - 1 MOA

They do not exist everywhere, but it is amazing how often, when looking for them, we can find very solid field rests: sprawling over big boulders in mountain hunts; leaning against trees; seating with the rifle on top of a tall backpack; kneeling and grabbing a strong sapling with the forearm hand; etc. without forgetting the African favorite: leaning over the "bakkie" (truck) hood.

View attachment 637294
Blaser R8 .257 Wby, Weatherby factory ammo 100 gr TTSX, 100 yards, field rest.

View attachment 637295
Blaser R8 .300 Wby, Weatherby factory ammo 165gr TTSX, 100 yards, field rest.

But there are places where there are no field rests within reach, especially in Africa, so many of us had to learn a new skill: shooting standing...

Off-hand standing, no support whatsoever - 6 MOA at best !?!?!?

It is a really good day for me if I stay within 6 MOA (= 6" @ 100 yards = 12" @ 200 yards etc.), and I know a fair number of folks who struggle to stay within a 10" paper plate (10 MOA).

I therefore never shoot standing off-hand at game except in a few very specific situations: really close on a follow up (wounded animal that springs up at 10 yards), or charging animal, which I have so far never needed to do.

Tripod - 2 MOA to 3 MOA.

I used to practice with .22 LR from a tripod on a 6" steel plate @ 100 yards. It became boring because I hit the plate 100% of the time.

So I shifted practice to 200 and 300 yards with the same 6" plate when I shifted to the Blaser R8 and got a .223 Rem barrel in addition to my hunting barrels. Hitting the 6" plate at 200 yards is a 3 MOA shot. Hitting the 6" plate at 300 yards is a 2 MOA shot.

I can confidently say that from a tripod, I did NOT hit the 6" plate at 300 yards 100%. I hovered around the 80%+ (4 hits out of 5 shots). Conversely, it was a rare day when I did not hit the 6"plate at 200 yards 100%. Hence, the data says that the tripod makes me a ~2.5 MOA shooter.

View attachment 637285
Blaser R8 .223 Rem, 55 gr bulk American Eagle factory ammo, 200 and 300 yards, 6" steel plate, training off tripod.

Translated to Africa, the tripod, the traditional "PH sticks" provides all the support any shot on DG may ever require.

View attachment 637311
Blaser R8 .458 Lott, Barnes factory ammo 500gr TSX, 100 yards, tripod.

But while DG is rarely shot further than 100 yards, PG often is, and the tripod suffers one major drawback: it only stabilizes the front of the rifle.

Quadpod (quad sticks) - 1.5 MOA to 2 MOA.

We recently built our retirement home on 10 acres and I now have my own private 100 yards range. In order to not bother the folks living around, I limit myself to .22 LR. I discovered that the nail guns the crew used to frame the house are more noisy that Eley Club ammo, so this is really innocuous. To spice things up a bit, I built a new target with 5", 4" and 3" steel plates.

Boy did I re-learn ... again!

1. Turns out that practicing a lot shooting the 6" plate at 100 yards, regardless of caliber, made me complacent. The crosshair can hover all over the 6" plate and the shot still hit. I had unlearned keeping the crosshair absolutely still. The 3" plate will not forgive that mistake.
2. "Aim small, miss small". Interestingly, the group size shrinks as the plate size shrinks. Like it or not, even when I know that I should concentrate just as much regardless of the target size, the fact is that I am still complacent on the 5" and 4" plates.
3. It is actually easier than I thought to ring the 3" plate 100% (5 hits for 5 shots), at least with the .22 LR (recoil is not a factor) when I pay attention, and the plate says that I am actually shooting way less than its 3", hence, the data says that the quad sticks make me a 1.5 to 2 MOA shooter.

View attachment 637296
Blaser R8 .22 LR, Eley Club ammo, 100 yards, 5", 4" and 3" steel plates, training off quad sticks. Aim small, miss small !

To answer WAB's question, why does the quad sticks make us better shooters?



I believe that the answer is simple: the tripod stabilizes the front end of the rifle, but the rear end still wobbles with our unsupported shoulder. The quad sticks support both front end and rear end.

My personal experience is that moving from tripod to quadpod shrank my groups by at least 1 MOA. I am very confident that I can under virtually any circumstance shoot 2 MOA - and often less - from the quad sticks, which means that I can ethically shoot an animal with a 6" vital area (i.e. the smallest of plains game aside from Tiny Tens) out to 300 yards standing with the quad sticks. With the tripod, I will kill cleanly all the time at 300 yards a wildebeest (10" vital area), but not always a small impala (6" vital area). With the quadpod I will. That is the difference.

I personally use the 4 Stable Sticks. I splurged on the carbon version ($250) because when I fly to Africa, every ounce counts, but I advise the aluminum version to friends in the US who do not need to fly with them. With a minimum of training, they are just as fast to use as the tripod.

I am not sure what the pistol grip adds to the Blaser sticks, I prefer to hold the rifle forearm, and I am a bit offended by their price ($450).

View attachment 637303


Trade off!

In the 4 Stable Sticks design, the four legs are joined in two points on the ground. This allows for tilting the rifle up or down instantly, which is very useful in uneven terrain,, and this allows rotating the sticks instantly left or right, by pivoting on one point, which is also very useful on moving game.
View attachment 637310
Credit: 4 Stable Sticks

Conversely, the Viper Flex has a fifth leg that prevents the rifle from tilting up or down. This provides yet another point of stability. The drawback is that it is inevitably slower to deploy, and more difficult to reposition on the fly once the rifle is on it.

Each will have their own preference. My personal view is that the Viper Flex is mechanically more stable, but that the 4 Stable Sticks are faster, and that once I pull solidly the rifle in my shoulder-pocket (which I need to do anyway to control recoil), the 4 Stable Sticks are just as stable as the Viper Flex. Others may favor the opposite tradeoff, for more mechanical stability and less speed.

View attachment 637309
Credit: Viper Flex

Please repost your excellent square up on sticks post that really helped me tremendously!!!

 

[Throwback]

Bunch of good advice so far for sure. One thing I started doing when practicing is to crouch down for awhile and then pop up and get in position as fast as you can on the sticks. This is to simulate when the PH has you crouched down for what feels like an eternity and then you have to very quickly get set up and take the shot.

I have found that when I stay crouched down for more than about 5 minutes it effects my breathing quite negatively (I think it compresses your lungs or something). I hate having to crouch down for this reason but I am trying to work with it. I have had the PH have me stay crouched down for probably at least 20 minutes (felt a lot longer) in some instances, it plain sucks.

Also, if you can practice for walking around with your rifle for a good while to get your heart rate up even better. Some stalks can be very long, then you may have to crouch down for awhile before taking the shot. Quite a difference from just standing there lining up on the sticks. Cheers

 

[Deepfork]

I also advocate for practicing with all kinds of improvised rest: trees, packs, jackets, sitting, kneeling, or whatever. The ability to quickly get into some kind of stabilish position with whatever you have available will pay off in the field.

Yes...this is always what I have done in the past.

 

[Deepfork]

I spent 2 hours this evening practicing with the Rudolph PH quad sticks, 2 or 3 shots then I would move, let the barrel cool a bit, set up again and take 2 or 3 more. 27 shots in all, everything between 80 and 110 yards. All shots inside 3.25 with the three fliers, 1.75 if I had cropped them out!

I can say I am a lot more comfortable pulling the trigger off of the quad sticks than I was off of the tripod. I was originally drawn to the tripod because it is quicker and despite what some of you say I cant see myself being able to get the quad sticks set quite as fast as the tripod. But from here on I am practicing with the quad sticks, I just feel they will allow me to make a better shot.

 

[festuscat]

Interesting discussion- If I have to use shooting sticks, I prefer a bipod made out of bamboo and bicycle tire rubber.
They go up quick and I angle the sticks away from me so that I press against the bipod. It steadies the rifle momentarily. I don’t use sticks often but I practice getting the shot off in 2-3 seconds at home. Didn’t use them last three hunts.

The tripod/ quad setups makes me feel like I’m on top of a table with a wobble.
My 2 cents

 

[375Fox]

I spent 2 hours this evening practicing with the Rudolph PH quad sticks, 2 or 3 shots then I would move, let the barrel cool a bit, set up again and take 2 or 3 more. 27 shots in all, everything between 80 and 110 yards. All shots inside 3.25 with the three fliers, 1.75 if I had cropped them out!

View attachment 637354

I can say I am a lot more comfortable pulling the trigger off of the quad sticks than I was off of the tripod. I was originally drawn to the tripod because it is quicker and despite what some of you say I cant see myself being able to get the quad sticks set quite as fast as the tripod. But from here on I am practicing with the quad sticks, I just feel they will allow me to make a better shot.

I see a lot of hunters in videos get set up on quad sticks wrong (in my opinion). If you want to be fast you do not set the rifle on front and back at same time. You focus on getting the back of rifle in sticks first then the forearm falls into place. I also only shoot with a sling. This lets me hold the sticks and sling with my left hand instead of the forearm. It lets me adjust and pivot if needed but also helps control recoil as well as ensuring consistent spacing on sticks every time I shoot rifle. Quad sticks take a different style to shoot fast. I also find some easier to use than others.

 

[shootist~]

I spent 2 hours this evening practicing with the Rudolph PH quad sticks, 2 or 3 shots then I would move, let the barrel cool a bit, set up again and take 2 or 3 more. 27 shots in all, everything between 80 and 110 yards. All shots inside 3.25 with the three fliers, 1.75 if I had cropped them out!

View attachment 637354

I can say I am a lot more comfortable pulling the trigger off of the quad sticks than I was off of the tripod. I was originally drawn to the tripod because it is quicker and despite what some of you say I cant see myself being able to get the quad sticks set quite as fast as the tripod. But from here on I am practicing with the quad sticks, I just feel they will allow me to make a better shot.

Interesting that your pulled shots were all low off the quad sticks.
I do the same thing at times, and it stood out yesterday in the string I shot at 325.

I think this may be due to muscle memory from shooting from the bench and "loading-up" against the front rest. Especially if from bi-pods (table top variety).

Something for me to work on.

 

[Deepfork]

I see a lot of hunters in videos get set up on quad sticks wrong (in my opinion). If you want to be fast you do not set the rifle on front and back at same time. You focus on getting the back of rifle in sticks first then the forearm falls into place. I also only shoot with a sling. This lets me hold the sticks and sling with my left hand instead of the forearm. It lets me adjust and pivot if needed but also helps control recoil as well as ensuring consistent spacing on sticks every time I shoot rifle. Quad sticks take a different style to shoot fast. I also find some easier to use than others.

Good info one of the things I have really been trying to figure out is the best (fastest and most efficient) way to get the rifle on the sticks.

 

[Deepfork]

Interesting that your pulled shots were all low off the quad sticks.
I do the same thing at times, and it stood out yesterday in the string I shot at 325.

I think this may be due to muscle memory from shooting from the bench and "loading-up" against the front rest. Especially if from bi-pods (table top variety).

Something for me to work on.

That makes sense, I was hoping to get a theory or two on the low shots! Thanks!