Scope Mounting Issue Advice needed

[Von S.]

Pete

The " points" that Shootist mentioned were and still are very instrumental in mounting bases on old military Mausers as when the striper guide gets ground off many times they need to be shimmed.

A 700 Remington is a piece of DOM so it's straight A's are
other firearms.

Regardless of what make a person should always use the points and a exact piece of heavy wall tube the exact size of the scope tube to set and work in the type of mounts where the front is dovetailed into the front base. Never use the scope tube as a bar.

 

[Hogpatrol]

How, if the mounts are properly manufactured, can these, or any mounts squeeze a scope?
Are scope mounts actually undersized to facilitate friction when finally mounted?

Just asking, I have no information on the subject.

By necessity, a gap must exist between the two halves when the screws are torqued to the proper specification. Tighten the screws down to the point where both halves make contact and the scope tube will at least be scarred and possibly squeezed to the point as to not being able to move the crosshairs. If they were made so the halves touched, the scope could move under heavy recoil.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks. I get the "clamp" aspect. I guess I am expecting significantly higher tolerances in manufacture than this.

 

[Von S.]

If you never want the scope to slip in the rings after you get done with the clove lapping compound don't forget to dust them up with rosin.

 

[Hogpatrol]

If you never want the scope to slip in the rings after you get done with the clove lapping compound don't forget to dust them up with rosin.

Haven't bought any Leupold rings lately but they used to supply tape of some sort to help prevent marking the tube.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

PeteG, not that it will help you out of your current predicament, but there is a scope installation kit made by Weaver that has both a lapping bar and two alignment bars. After mounting the bases you insert the alignment bars (which are tapered to a point) to see how well their tips are lined up. If the bases are correct the "tips" point directly at each other. If the tips are out of alignment vertically one of the bases is incorrect.

I have a set of alignment bars. When I use them which isn’t often I turn them around so that the round ends are pointed at each other. I can tell if rings are aligned or misaligned better by looking at how the round ends align with each other. It’s not my idea, I read it a long time ago and decided to try it.

 

[PeteG]

perhaps I will machine a set of bars like that and see what it looks like.

 

[Shootist43]

Dwight, that works as well, in fact I'll try "your" technique the next time I'm in doubt. Off a Redfield Jr. type base I can see how there might be some horizontal misalignment but how do you get vertical misalignment with properly mounted rings?

 

[Dwight Beagle]

Dwight, that works as well, in fact I'll try "your" technique the next time I'm in doubt. Off a Redfield Jr. type base I can see how there might be some horizontal misalignment but how do you get vertical misalignment with properly mounted rings?

I’ve never thought about it.

It’s also not “my” technique. I read about it, it made sense to me so I tried it.

 

[Shootist43]

Like you, I'm just curious about such things and I like making things easy as well.

 

[Von S.]

Dwight, that works as well, in fact I'll try "your" technique the next time I'm in doubt. Off a Redfield Jr. type base I can see how there might be some horizontal misalignment but how do you get vertical misalignment with properly mounted rings?

The only way is to have the back screws loose for the photo op , or a ring with mis machined screw lip counter countersinks to hold the rear ring to the base or a bent base.

Seeing that is the same rifle I'm going for the photo op!

 

[Shootist43]

Von S, as Dwight said, this wasn't his idea, and I can clearly see the reason for the "photo op" for diagrammatical purposes only. That being said, I'm glad I'm not the only one to pick upon it. I must admit, I think the idea has merit. I think my alignment bars were made by Wheeler and have points on one end, if the backend of each bar is flat, minor misalignment might be easier to spot.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

I did not take the photos, they are for illustration purpose only. I don’t care whether a person uses the pointed ends or the rounded ends. I also never said using the rounded ends is better. It is easier for me to see misalignment using the rounded ends, YMMV.

 

[Von S.]

Shootist,

The mounting of s scope on a rifle can be very simple, as you well know, or a highly complicated tedious ordeal when mounting one for someone who wants to shoot at a distance that some might call it unsportsman-like to even think of killing an animal at that distance.

I think that it is absolutely amazing just how precise some of the scopes today are built, and also how expensive they can be. And when a fella puts a few thousand into a rifle and another fist full of thousands into a scope and rings he expects to pay more than $59.95 for a mount job that keeps the bullets kinda where they should be, but on a dead calm day when he raises the elevation turret and takes a pole ata G he's off by a bunch.

There are more guys shooting long distance now than ever before with equipment making 2000 yards the new thousand. Though hitting something and killing something are different things.

Of course it's all pretty meaningless unless you have a firearm that shoots damned near one hole at 200 yards and throws a heavy slug that is still very supersonic at 1000 yards.

By the way. If you are using a one piece mounting base you don't need a set of points as the rings will align with a round the size of the scope tube.

 

[Shootist43]

I did not take the photos, they are for illustration purpose only. I don’t care whether a person uses the pointed ends or the rounded ends. I also never said using the rounded ends is better. It is easier for me to see misalignment using the rounded ends, YMMV.

Dwight, I agree with you 100%

 

[Hogpatrol]

Dwight, What's your take on the Burris insert style rings. Use many of them? On centerfires, I use them exclusively. They'll absolve a lot of alignment sins.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

Dwight, What's your take on the Burris insert style rings. Use many of them? On centerfires, I use them exclusively. They'll absolve a lot of alignment sins.

They are excellent. I’ve actually not installed that many but have a high opinion of them. I have a Marlin 336 that was drilled and tapped slightly to the left instead of straight. Normally I would send the rifle back to the manufacturer but this rifle is seriously accurate for a lever gun so I decided to deal with it.

If I were paying full price the mounts I’d have used would have been Burris. At the time though I got 70% off MSRP on Leupold so I used their STD. setup to be able to get the scope in alignment.

I read some serious bashing about Leupold mounts on other forums and have heard numerous stories about them failing. That hasn’t been my experience and though they look flimsy they aren’t. Another plus is that for the most part their customer service people are the best Ive dealt with in the industry.

I’ve come to the point where on my personal rifles I don’t want the hassle of liking a scope but having to go through a huge hassle to find a two piece set up because of the shortness of the main tube. For that reason I started using a one piece picatinny base and Warne rings several years ago. I don’t really care for the looks but prefer the ability to mount any scope I want hassle free. Unless of course something is out of spec.

Below is the Marlin. I had to shim it to get enough elevation to sight it in so it has a one piece base along with using the windage adjustable bases. As stated I normally would send the rifle back but it is a legitimate MOA shooter, the only MOA lever gun I’ve ever encountered. It does have a Wild West Happy Trigger which I know contributes to the accuracy.

The axis deer I shot while hog hunting at night with the 336. I’ve never seen one but once during daylight.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Dwight, NICE DEER and yes, you got a good Marlin there. Two to three MOA is usually more like it. I've gone to the Burris universal rings by necessity on factory actions. That gives me the best of both worlds, staying close to mechanical center on both axes. On custom actions, the base holes haven't been a problem so I use their rings in Weaver style. On the Leupold rings, I used to use them until Burris came out with their insert models. Never had a problem with them but I always used the universal style.

 

[Milan]

Tightening Leupold scopes (at least the 1" tubed ones) too much at the rear will cause the zoom ring to become stiff or seize. I use Warne rings quite a lot and have had no issues on any rifles except a .458 Lott, where the rings were unable to hold a heavier scope under recoil. I also do not like how the rings have to be completely split to take the scope out of them but that is not an issue on rifle and scope combos you set up once and leave for years. Do use proper torque on all screws and it should be no problem. I do not always torque them to spec. I tighten the bases a lot, then I tighten the bottom screws first and tighten them hard then I tighten the top. Front can be quite stiff I think without affecting the erector tube, but the rear I would tighten to the point the zoom adjuster starts to get stiff and then back off slightly. Ideally just use a torque wrench and tighten things to manufacturer specs.

As to needing a lot of vertical adjustment, I skipped that part in your post so will have to re-read it, but would guess some bases are slightly taller than others. Now, even Warne using Weaver/Picatinny style bases gives you some options. Leupold bases look almost identical, so you could perhaps get a set of those and get the best combination of front and rear bases to alleviate the height differences. Come to think of it, if all else fails, get a set of Leupold QD rings and you get the same QD feature as Warne. I do not lap rings but admit some can benefit from such exercise. I also have a friend who puts a strip of tape on the rings before mounting the scope to not mar the scope, I'm sure this also creates a tighter squeeze and evens out any metal imperfections on the rings.

I hope this helps.

 

[cagkt3]

@PeteG any update?