Scope Mounting Issue Advice needed

[PeteG]

Right...
I have the scope in the rings and all sits perfectly until I try torque the top screws on the rear ring.
I have followed Warne’s Instructions to leave the top screws until the bottom screws on the base are tight and torqued.
I’ve attached (hopefully) a pic of the offending screws.

The front screws can be tightened with no issue.
You can see here the scope ring is not close to the magnification ring.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Others are going to disagree but think about all the problems you are having with them. I looked at the Warne 201M rings and here's my opinion of that design: GET RID OF THEM and do not use that type of ring. Go back to the top and bottom half style. It's too easy to over-torque and squeeze the scope, cock it to one side, raise one end or the other. Talley's are the same way. I used them on ONE rifle before throwing them in the scrap bucket. That design is a flawed one.
On my rifles, except for one rimfire, I use nothing but Burris Signature rings, either the universals or Weaver style. They come with inserts that will make up for misaligned base holes and elevation and windage can be set very close to mechanical center.

 

[PeteG]

Others are going to disagree but think about all the problems you are having with them. I looked at the Warne 201M rings and here's my opinion of that design: GET RID OF THEM and do not use that type of ring. Go back to the top and bottom half style. It's too easy to over-torque and squeeze the scope, cock it to one side, raise one end or the other. Talley's are the same way. I used them on ONE rifle before throwing them in the scrap bucket. That design is a flawed one.

I'm beginning to feel that way too...
This is the first time I have tried the Warne's, all others I've used are top are the top and bottom half styles.

I have emailed Warne so lets see if they come back to me with anything.

Guess its going to have to be open sights hunting with the 300wm this season...

 

[Fred Gunner]

 

[Von S.]

Ta-Da

And there in lies the skunk in the woodpile.

 

[PeteG]

View attachment 250427

 

[Fred Gunner]

And there in lies the skunk in the woodpile.

Yup there can be no argument... there he is
And just say-in a mighty fine woodpile it is...all maple hard wood sweet

 

[Von S.]

Wow!

A real skunk in a real wood pile.

You da man Fred!

 

[Shootist43]

Bases generally come in low, medium and high with medium being the one used for scopes with objective lenses in the 42mm range. Have you tried using the old bases with new rings? What is the diameter of the objective lens on your new scope? If it is over 50mm you may need "high" bases.

 

[PeteG]

Bases generally come in low, medium and high with medium being the one used for scopes with objective lenses in the 42mm range. Have you tried using the old bases with new rings? What is the diameter of the objective lens on your new scope? If it is over 50mm you may need "high" bases.

The old bases and rings were a different style so i cannot mix the old and new.
The scope is the same 40mm objective so i have the correct height setup.

 

[Dr Ray]

Perhaps the scope mounts and/or where you mount the scope are out of alignment if you are running out vertical adjustment.
I would try a brand of scope mounts/rail. If still a problem I’d get a gunsmith to check.
I had a similar problem many years ago with a Remington plastic stocked rifle. No matter what I did I could not get to sight in.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Perhaps the scope mounts and/or where you mount the scope are out of alignment if you are running out vertical adjustment.
I would try a brand of scope mounts/rail. If still a problem I’d get a gunsmith to check.
I had a similar problem many years ago with a Remington plastic stocked rifle. No matter what I did I could not get to sight in.

I have a Remington with the rear scope base holes off center. Fixed it with universal bases and Burris Signature rings with the inserts. It could also have been fixed with the same rings, Weaver style. They'll also allow for raising or lowering the POI.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

I have mounted many more scopes than most people being that I mounted scopes at a very large store and have had a small scope mounting business for a few years. In and of itself that doesn’t make me an expert, I don’t think of myself as one, but I have mounted a $hit ton of scopes. Take what I say anyway you want.

I’ve seen rings and bases from every maker that were out of whack. Off the top of my head that means Leupold, Talley, DNZ, Warne, Burris and Weaver. All with about the same regularity. They are all pretty much the same regarding quality of manufacture, Warne isn’t any better but they certainly aren’t aren’t worse than the others.

There are advantages and disadvantages to the Warne style(vertical) just as there are to the horizontal style. It really boils down to what floats your boat as to which style you use.

Being in Zambia it is not feasible to call but Warne’s chief engineer is Randy and if somehow the OP could get his Email and correspond directly with Randy it would be for the best. He is incredibly, knowledgeable, helpful and nice. I’ve spoken to him via telephone on a number of occasions. I’ll see what I can do about getting Randy’s Email.

Do not lap Warne rings. Their instructions state not to do so. I did one time anyway. I don’t know a good way to explain it other than to say, once lapped, Warne rings grip too well.

Caveat: I can count on one hand the rifles I’ve mounted scopes on that were chambered for cartridges in .375 H&H and above. I also don’t believe it’s relevant to the OP’s issue but as always I could be wrong.

 

[PeteG]

I have mounted many more scopes than most people being that I mounted scopes at a very large store and have had a small scope mounting business for a few years. In and of itself that doesn’t make me an expert, I don’t think of myself as one, but I have mounted a $hit ton of scopes. Take what I say anyway you want.

I’ve seen rings and bases from every maker that were out of whack. Off the top of my head that means Leupold, Talley, DNZ, Warne, Burris and Weaver. All with about the same regularity. They are all pretty much the same regarding quality of manufacture, Warne isn’t any better but they certainly aren’t aren’t worse than the others.

There are advantages and disadvantages to the Warne style(vertical) just as there are to the horizontal style. It really boils down to what floats your boat as to which style you use.

Being in Zambia it is not feasible to call but Warne’s chief engineer is Randy and if somehow the OP could get his Email and correspond directly with Randy it would be for the best. He is incredibly, knowledgeable, helpful and nice. I’ve spoken to him via telephone on a number of occasions. I’ll see what I can do about getting Randy’s Email.

Do not lap Warne rings. Their instructions state not to do so. I did one time anyway. I don’t know a good way to explain it other than to say, once lapped, Warne rings grip too well.

Caveat: I can count on one hand the rifles I’ve mounted scopes on that were chambered for cartridges in .375 H&H and above. I also don’t believe it’s relevant to the OP’s issue but as always I could be wrong.

I appreciate the input, i have been a bit quiet on here for a few days as i had sent an email to Warne to try come up with a solution.
I did get a response and he has asked me to try mount them up in a certain way and get back to him with the results.
I will try that tonight when i get home from work. I had already tried something similar to what has been suggested by Warne, but will give it another go and see what the outcome is.

So far i have noted that when i tighten up the rings without a scope, the two sides dont seem to mate up very well, there is a definite lip created at the top of the rings.
This could be what is squeezing the scope tube causing the issue.

I am in two minds about putting a reamer through the rings to see what happens... not quite sure i want to write off $150 worth of scope rings and mounts though on a test that might truly stuff them up for good!!
I will take my vernier home this evening (unless i forget again) and take a few measurements to see if there is any variance there.

If i decide to return them, i will look online and see if i can purchase a set and then get them shipped to me here somehow.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

Cool beans. I do like Warne and use them on most of my rifles. I have encountered a defective set of Warne rings before.

 

[fourfive8]

Get a 1" lapping bar or scope lapping kit with a bar. And use it to mount all your scopes in the future. Lightly snug it down and see how it looks. It will also reveal any binding issues in the mount/ring alignment. If there is an error in height difference between the front and rears on a Model 70, it can cause TWO problems- vertical runout from bore axis and "step" binding of the scope body in rings. A lapping bar can correct small differences for best scope mounting for all situations and it can reveal mount mismatch problems before even attempting to use wrong mounts.

Obviously there is something wrong with the mounts you are trying to use- likely too much runout in the vertical of the mounts not correct for rifle. Sometimes, once a lapping bar is in the mounts, you can actually see the difference in alignment between bore line and scope line. Also, if you don't have a simple, inexpensive caliper with a depth gauge- get one.

 

[Shootist43]

PeteG, not that it will help you out of your current predicament, but there is a scope installation kit made by Weaver that has both a lapping bar and two alignment bars. After mounting the bases you insert the alignment bars (which are tapered to a point) to see how well their tips are lined up. If the bases are correct the "tips" point directly at each other. If the tips are out of alignment vertically one of the bases is incorrect.

 

[PeteG]

PeteG, not that it will help you out of your current predicament, but there is a scope installation kit made by Weaver that has both a lapping bar and two alignment bars. After mounting the bases you insert the alignment bars (which are tapered to a point) to see how well their tips are lined up. If the bases are correct the "tips" point directly at each other. If the tips are out of alignment vertically one of the bases is incorrect.

Since this little issue of mine has surfaced, i have seen those types of kits on the web.
I dont recall seeing one in the gunshop, but it looks like it could be a useful bit of kit to have in the cupboard!

 

[BRICKBURN]

......... Go back to the top and bottom half style. It's too easy to over-torque and squeeze the scope, cock it to one side, raise one end or the other. .........That design is a flawed one. ..........

How, if the mounts are properly manufactured, can these, or any mounts squeeze a scope?
Are scope mounts actually undersized to facilitate friction when finally mounted?

Just asking, I have no information on the subject.

 

[Shootist43]

Pete G, they are, and while you are at it, buy a PHATT wrench as well. It is a self-limiting torque wrench designed for installing scope rings and bases.