Scope for 458 LOtt

[RR 314]

You boys have a much more discerning eye than I do. I don’t gag at the sight of a 30mm tube (Z6 or Exos) on my rifles. As long as straight tubes I don’t discern a difference.

 

[michael458]

You boys have a much more discerning eye than I do. I don’t gag at the sight of a 30mm tube (Z6 or Exos) on my rifles. As long as straight tubes I don’t discern a difference.

It goes beyond just the looks of the Fat Boys...... extra weight and handling abilities come in to play for me. My B&M series guns are much shorter and lighter than common big bore guns and the larger scopes throw the handling abilities of the rifle out the window........ Like the photo below, the larger scopes just seem a bit, well, out of proportion with the size of the rifle...........

HEH HEH........ of course this is a tiny bit of exaggeration....... LOL

 

[0002S]

Trijicon 1-4x24
Red Triangle Post Reticle

Trijicon AccuPoint® 1-4x24 Riflescope

I have one on a 416 Weatherby

 

[JimmyJack54]

Yeah, I am afraid so........ From 2005 to 2014 we were doing some serious shooting here, 416-.620 caliber, most of it 458-500 caliber, to the tune of 8000+ rounds a year. This was load data, pressure data and bullet tech. Along with getting rifles ready to go to the field.

I am a scope shooter, always have been. What you have to have in a big bore Dangerous game scope is huge field of view.... at 10 steps you want to be able to see the entire body of lion, not a tan spot. Eye Relief and size of the scope is important since you are going to have to carry this around all day, unless you are the sort of chap that lets someone else carry your rifle.

I had always been a Leupold fan, and the 1.5 X5 Vari X and later VX3 was about the most perfect DG Big Bore scope you could get, it had the Field of View, eye Relief and it was small. Only one problem, it was horribly unreliable. We had 15 or so Leupold 1.5X5 we were using here on various Big Bores. It was very common to have 3-4 at Leupold for repairs, 3-4 on the bench to send to Leupold waiting on the other 3-4 to be returned. It was a constant circle of busted scopes. One day I took a brand new Leupold 1.5X5 VX out of the box, mounted it on a 50 B&M for some 50 yard accuracy work. Settled in at the bench, fired 1, then 2, then 3 rounds....... On the 3rd round fired I watched the scope explode inside and it went completely out of focus. Session done and over in 3 rounds.

This was hindering my productivity and taking a tremendous amount of time dismounting and remounting sight systems weekly, daily......I was spending more time doing this than getting any research done...... ENOUGH. I started looking for available alternatives. I bought 4-5 different scopes to see if any could replace all the attributes I required, #1 Field of View #2 Eye Relief #3 Size.

In this batch I bought a Nikon 1X4 African (at the time, buffalo on one of the caps). It had all the attributes I required, and the quality for me seemed even better than the Leupold. However I didn't care much for the larger turret it sported. I also had a 1" Trijicon that is now no longer made, it also had all the attributes, but about twice the cost. There were a few more, but none of them made the grade in quality, and other attributes.

I started shooting, figured for sure something would bust...... I kept shooting and after several weeks the Nikon was growing on me seriously. I bought another. I had them on the heavy kickers, 500 MDM and 50 B&M, all with high recoil impulse, that is devastating to scopes. Still no busted Nikons, I bought some more as the months went by, and was completely astounded that I had yet to have an issue..... ??? I was so used to dealing with busted scopes, I really was confused, after all the Nikon was actually less expensive than the Leupold, it is rare that you see that in these times, something less expensive out performing the more expensive model.

It was not long before I tried a few other Nikons larger scopes for smaller calibers....... and more Nikon 1X4 Africans........... Then Nikon decided the African was racist or some stupid shit, and just called them the Monarch, which was the top of the line Nikon scope series....... Still no issues at all with any Nikon, larger, smaller or in between.

Time to get rid of the Leupolds I had a big sell off, sold 35+ Leupolds of all shapes, sizes and what have you, 15 or so 1.5x5....... gone........ The only Leupold I kept was the Scout model, forward mount 2X. These I had never busted, and had one on a heavy kicking 510 Wells for years, and it is still on it. Other than those, the Leupolds hit the door....... and all were replaced with Nikons and then some.......

Nikon went woke a few years ago, ceased the entire line of rifle scopes. By this time I had enough 1X4 Nikons to last a lifetime and then some........ Fortunately. And to this day, 1000s on top of 1000s of big bore rounds fired, I have never ever not once busted or had any issue at all with the Nikon 1x4 African/Monarch....... Even the very first one that was on a 500 MDM, it is still on that gun.

The 1 inch Trijicon did well too, I still have it on a 458 and never had an issue. But now, seems all you can get is the 30mm Scopes, and I just do not like the size and weight of 30mm anything. It is true that most 30mm scopes are more robust and will hold up, but they definitely do not fit my # 3 factor of SIZE....... I have recently worked with two 30mm Trijicons, one is on 458 Lott and doing well so far, but it is big. The other was on a 458 Lott, and replaced by a spare Nikon 1X4 I had on hand.

I had several guys that wanted the 1X6 Swaro's on their 500 MDMs, and each and every single time the scope busted trying to sight it in. So I am not so much on those, and refuse to mess with them anymore.

I continue to look on occasion just to see if anything is out there, but have yet to find any real replacement for the loss of the Nikon. Even though I don't need any, if I run across one, I snatch it up, recently bought 3, two from a friend and one that was on Ebay........

If you shoot these Leupolds enough then you will sooner or later have the same experience. If you shoot your big bore 5 rounds a year, then it might last a little longer, but when you sit down for 200 rounds a week, then its a matter of time, and could be on that 3rd round fired from new in the box, busted............

A Leupold rep once told a friend of mine when questioned about the Nikons. His statement was That Leupold customers like to customize their scopes, and that Nikon "Glued" their reticles in place, and Leupold did not do that. I said..... better get the damn glue out....... But it was not so much the reticles that I was having issues with, it was focus and tracking...... They would just give up......and if you can't focus, you can't see, so what is the point.......Talk about shake rattle and roll when you take those off the gun, sounds like a baby rattler.......

@michael458 thanks for the great information.

I’ve got a 458Lott wearing a Weaver Dangerous Game 1-5x24. I’ve put slightly over 20 rounds through it since I’ve had it. I’m not sure how much it’s been used previously. I was somewhat skeptical since it wasn’t European glass like I’m used to, i.e., S&B. My limited use of this scope without breaking plus your experience with the Nikon African/Monarch give me a little more comfort that durability does/did exist in packages less than $1k.

Do you have experience with the following?
•Weaver DG 1-5x24
•Weaver Classic V3 1-3x20
If so , I would be interested in hearing your experience.

If it is poor, I would rather know now than in the bush on the other side of the world with a busted scope.

Thanks.

 

[michael458]

I had not heard of a 1X5 Weaver DG......... You had me somewhat excited there for a little while, I was thinking maybe someone was really going to make something suitable...... and replace what we lost with the Nikon.......... Then I found it, of course discontinued...... but the reason I never seen it it is 30mm and its mostly a personal thing, 30mm is just too bulky for my taste. If I had seen it, I would have bypassed it soon as I read 30mm......... Damn! I was looking, I intended to find one and get it ordered.........

At the time I was searching for something other than Leupold, one of the scopes I tried was the 1X3 Weaver. It had everything going for it, size, eye relief, and field of view........ But there was something about the quality of the glass that just did not look right and was hard to get used to with my eyes, so I never worked with it on a big bore, and now, not sure what I did with it.......????

your experience with the Nikon African/Monarch give me a little more comfort that durability does/did exist in packages less than $1k.

Yeah, don't fall into that trap, at least not completely. I believe for the most part you get what you pay for. However, that said, it is not always true when it comes to rifle scopes, and particularly not true when you start putting them on big bore rifles, that is a completely different world, and many scope manufacturers do not understand that world. With that in mind, you don't always get what you pay for in that scenario.

If it is poor, I would rather know now than in the bush on the other side of the world with a busted scope.

I think you can determine how suitable it is for you. What I have found it has adequate eye relief. Even more important it appears that the Field of View is very good, for those close up encounters. If the glass is good for you, then the only question is will it hold up under heavy recoil over the long haul? Keep Shooting it.........

The very best advice I can give any of you, regardless of what scope you hunt with. Have a spare along "Just In Case"................. I always carried two scopes for a given rifle. I used Leupold QRW Rings and bases, I would set one scope up, sight it in, take it off and pack it away, then put the second scope on sight it in, and go hunting. Should something happen, then it was simple to change out, and quick check sight in and go back to work. I ran a test here and removed and replaced this setup multiple times, the vast majority of the time the POI would not change more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch at 50 yards....... only a couple of times was it more, and never more than 1 inch off at 50. But I would still recommend a quick range check after replacing a scope. You do a range check when you arrive, you would do a range check after a scope change too.

Now, your scope may not fail............ But......... I was hunting with a friend back in the day, he was out with his PH and he fell down on a rocky path, on his rifle, and actually broke his scope off the gun. Rings were broken. He did not have spare scope or rings..... and his rifle did not even have iron sights........ He had a problem.

Well, fortunately we had set his rifle up similar to mine, QRW Rings and Bases. While his rifle was not the same brand as mine, I had a spare scope, so all we had to do is adjust the rings a bit to fit on his gun, a quick range sight in, and that afternoon he was back in the field. Had I not had a spare scope along, he would have been looking for a rifle to use, or he would have been screwed.

Things happen in the field. And with scopes, its not always a scope failure that might get you.

Heres another stupid story........

I had a friend that was hunting with me, he was using a 416 B&M. These are based on Winchester WSM Actions. I was also hunting with a B&M, I think 458 and my spare gun was another B&M WSM action as well........... Well, my friends firing pin broke! I had never seen such a thing before or since. Who in the hell carries spare firing pins? I try to think of everything ,but a spare firing pin was not one of them............... But I did have a spare rifle, and it had a complete spare bolt that would fit in his gun, and we did just that, and he was able to carry on with the hunt. From that time forward, if I did not have two rifles with the same action, then I made sure I had a spare bolt, for that "Just in Case"........... Fortunately something like that never happened again.......... but I was ready if it did.

You obviously can't be prepared for everything, but some things you can and a spare scope sighted in already is one of those that you can........

 

[Foxi]

I fear a scope with that caliber.
When I have to work fast, the stop gets sloppy and I have opted for a red dot-burris fast fire and I am satisfied.

 

[michael458]

I fear a scope with that caliber.
When I have to work fast, the stop gets sloppy and I have opted for a red dot-burris fast fire and I am satisfied.

I find the choice in sight systems a very personal choice, I don't think there is a right or wrong choice, its what the individual is used to working with, and what works for them the best.

For me personally, I have always been a scope shooter and I do my very best with a scope, no matter short the distance, and how fast the action, I am on as soon as I throw up the rifle, better than irons and red dots..... But that is because that is what I always used, and many thousands of times of practice at very close range.......

I have an issue with red dots, love them, have them on some rifles, but in the field I really have an issue of seeing properly in brush. If it is open ground, I am good to go and can do decent, but the minute I am in brush I have a hard time making out angles an animal might be standing, or even seeing it properly if in the shade and all sorts of issues, so I opt out the red dot in the field for me. Others might not be an issue at all.......

As I said, a very personal choice.

Some years ago I was very curious about this very thing however. I had a group of 3 young men here visiting from Zimbabwe. All were hunters, and had hunted all their young lives, they were all in their early 20s. Strong and healthy chaps. They of course wanted to shoot some. So I set up a little test for these guys, I had 3 458 B&Ms set up, one iron sights, one with an EOTech, and one with a 1X4 Nikon. Used the same ammo all the way through of course.

The test was set up at 10 yards. Target an 8 inch circle, 6 inch inside, with 2 inch outside ring. I would time each shot, they would start at Port Arms ready, at the buzzer they would fire one round as quickly as they could. Each hit would count 10 pts, there was an outside ring that counted 9 pts, and outside of that was Zero. I had each of them fire 3 rounds. Add the total score, and divide by the total time to get a Factor. The higher the factor the better........

If you study the test results above, its pretty easy to see the most experienced and inexperienced shooter. Shooter #1 had the least shooting experience, Shooter #3 having the most, and Shooter #2 actually falling in the middle....

The shooter with the least experience did very well with the EOTech, Shooter #1. Shooter #2 was at his best with the Scope, but did well with the EOTech, and was not so good with the irons. Shooter #3 which had the most shooting experience, also did not do so well with the irons, but picked up very well with the EOtech, and really showed off with the Scope.

Conclusions: The least experienced shooter did his best with the EOTech, I think simplicity played a part, there were no iron sights to try and line up properly, and he did not have to figure out how to get a full field of vision in the scope. Both Shooter #2 and #3 having a little more shooting experienced increased their scores dramatically using the EOTech and the Scope over the iron sights, with the scope winning in both cases. Experience is a factor. And personal preference another factor and what one is used to working with.

 

[Foxi]

I find the choice in sight systems a very personal choice, I don't think there is a right or wrong choice, its what the individual is used to working with, and what works for them the best.

For me personally, I have always been a scope shooter and I do my very best with a scope, no matter short the distance, and how fast the action, I am on as soon as I throw up the rifle, better than irons and red dots..... But that is because that is what I always used, and many thousands of times of practice at very close range.......

I have an issue with red dots, love them, have them on some rifles, but in the field I really have an issue of seeing properly in brush. If it is open ground, I am good to go and can do decent, but the minute I am in brush I have a hard time making out angles an animal might be standing, or even seeing it properly if in the shade and all sorts of issues, so I opt out the red dot in the field for me. Others might not be an issue at all.......

Some years ago I was very curious about this very thing however. I had a group of 3 young men here visiting from Zimbabwe. All were hunters, and had hunted all their young lives, they were all in their early 20s. Strong and healthy chaps. They of course wanted to shoot some. So I set up a little test for these guys, I had 3 458 B&Ms set up, one iron sights, one with an EOTech, and one with a 1X4 Nikon. Used the same ammo all the way through of course.

The test was set up at 10 yards. Target an 8 inch circle, 6 inch inside, with 2 inch outside ring. I would time each shot, they would start at Port Arms ready, at the buzzer they would fire one round as quickly as they could. Each hit would count 10 pts, there was an outside ring that counted 9 pts, and outside of that was Zero. I had each of them fire 3 rounds. Add the total score, and divide by the total time to get a Factor. The higher the factor the better........

View attachment 559139
If you study the test results above, its pretty easy to see the most experienced and inexperienced shooter. Shooter #1 had the least shooting experience, Shooter #3 having the most, and Shooter #2 actually falling in the middle....

The shooter with the least experience did very well with the EOTech, Shooter #1. Shooter #2 was at his best with the Scope, but did well with the EOTech, and was not so good with the irons. Shooter #3 which had the most shooting experience, also did not do so well with the irons, but picked up very well with the EOtech, and really showed off with the Scope.

Conclusions: The least experienced shooter did his best with the EOTech, I think simplicity played a part, there were no iron sights to try and line up properly, and he did not have to figure out how to get a full field of vision in the scope. Both Shooter #2 and #3 having a little more shooting experienced increased their scores dramatically using the EOTech and the Scope over the iron sights, with the scope winning in both cases. Experience is a factor. And personal preference another factor and what one is used to working with.

As I said, a very personal choice.

of course it is, and I speak only for myself.
But I have seen some pretty bleeding heads - all of them shot .400 and up,hurt by scopes.
The most horrible thing I heard was about a red deer hunter from Austria.
His double rifle had all the barrels go off at the same time (.375 H+H FLMag) and knocked one eye out of his skull.He was taken to hospital by helicopter.

When someone shoots the .450 upwards, he is essentially hunting big game at short to very short range.
A Red Dot would be enough for me, given my age.
As mentioned above, I am only talking about myself and am far from giving advice.
Just a comment (because today is Friday,late afternoon and I don't feel like working anymore

 

[michael458]

of course it is, and I speak only for myself.
But I have seen some pretty bleeding heads - all of them shot .400 and up,hurt by scopes.
The most horrible thing I heard was about a red deer hunter from Austria.
His double rifle had all the barrels go off at the same time (.375 H+H FLMag) and knocked one eye out of his skull.He was taken to hospital by helicopter.

When someone shoots the .450 upwards, he is essentially hunting big game at short to very short range.
A Red Dot would be enough for me, given my age.
As mentioned above, I am only talking about myself and am far from giving advice.
Just a comment (because today is Friday,late afternoon and I don't feel like working anymore

I am with you, I am sick of work, I am going to the range, I have a new lever gun in 454 to play with, I don't have time for this............ LOL

Enjoy your weekend............

 

[JimmyJack54]

I had not heard of a 1X5 Weaver DG......... You had me somewhat excited there for a little while, I was thinking maybe someone was really going to make something suitable...... and replace what we lost with the Nikon.......... Then I found it, of course discontinued...... but the reason I never seen it it is 30mm and its mostly a personal thing, 30mm is just too bulky for my taste. If I had seen it, I would have bypassed it soon as I read 30mm......... Damn! I was looking, I intended to find one and get it ordered.........

At the time I was searching for something other than Leupold, one of the scopes I tried was the 1X3 Weaver. It had everything going for it, size, eye relief, and field of view........ But there was something about the quality of the glass that just did not look right and was hard to get used to with my eyes, so I never worked with it on a big bore, and now, not sure what I did with it.......????

Yeah, don't fall into that trap, at least not completely. I believe for the most part you get what you pay for. However, that said, it is not always true when it comes to rifle scopes, and particularly not true when you start putting them on big bore rifles, that is a completely different world, and many scope manufacturers do not understand that world. With that in mind, you don't always get what you pay for in that scenario.


I think you can determine how suitable it is for you. What I have found it has adequate eye relief. Even more important it appears that the Field of View is very good, for those close up encounters. If the glass is good for you, then the only question is will it hold up under heavy recoil over the long haul? Keep Shooting it.........

The very best advice I can give any of you, regardless of what scope you hunt with. Have a spare along "Just In Case"................. I always carried two scopes for a given rifle. I used Leupold QRW Rings and bases, I would set one scope up, sight it in, take it off and pack it away, then put the second scope on sight it in, and go hunting. Should something happen, then it was simple to change out, and quick check sight in and go back to work. I ran a test here and removed and replaced this setup multiple times, the vast majority of the time the POI would not change more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch at 50 yards....... only a couple of times was it more, and never more than 1 inch off at 50. But I would still recommend a quick range check after replacing a scope. You do a range check when you arrive, you would do a range check after a scope change too.

Now, your scope may not fail............ But......... I was hunting with a friend back in the day, he was out with his PH and he fell down on a rocky path, on his rifle, and actually broke his scope off the gun. Rings were broken. He did not have spare scope or rings..... and his rifle did not even have iron sights........ He had a problem.

Well, fortunately we had set his rifle up similar to mine, QRW Rings and Bases. While his rifle was not the same brand as mine, I had a spare scope, so all we had to do is adjust the rings a bit to fit on his gun, a quick range sight in, and that afternoon he was back in the field. Had I not had a spare scope along, he would have been looking for a rifle to use, or he would have been screwed.

Things happen in the field. And with scopes, its not always a scope failure that might get you.

Heres another stupid story........

I had a friend that was hunting with me, he was using a 416 B&M. These are based on Winchester WSM Actions. I was also hunting with a B&M, I think 458 and my spare gun was another B&M WSM action as well........... Well, my friends firing pin broke! I had never seen such a thing before or since. Who in the hell carries spare firing pins? I try to think of everything ,but a spare firing pin was not one of them............... But I did have a spare rifle, and it had a complete spare bolt that would fit in his gun, and we did just that, and he was able to carry on with the hunt. From that time forward, if I did not have two rifles with the same action, then I made sure I had a spare bolt, for that "Just in Case"........... Fortunately something like that never happened again.......... but I was ready if it did.

You obviously can't be prepared for everything, but some things you can and a spare scope sighted in already is one of those that you can........

@michael458 Thank you for the great insight and recommendations!

 

[Luvthunt]

Interesting thoughts and opinions