SCI Adopts Policy On Captive Bred Lions

[BRICKBURN]

............... I think there is a huge difference where the "estates" are large enough to have self-sustaining populations in which the animals normal environment is not curtailed. ..............

Being raised on B&C rules and local laws that do not allow any type of high fence hunting, this was the exact process I had to go through personally before my first hunt in South Africa.
What property size was large enough?

I'll guess a lot more CBL hunts are going to be sold on Whatsapp or outside the shows!

 

[billc]

What is next is simple to see really. The anti's will see all this as a win and go after more then ever. Leopard.lion ele will see more pressure now from them to stop all hunting. Then I am sure the next cute animals like giraffe and zebra will come soon after.

The part I am waiting for and it will happen. Is when all the Ph following great white hunters who think because they hunt (shot) in zim or moz they are better then anyone who will hunt raised animals in SA or texas. They will be up in arms when they keep going after hunting of ele,lion leopard and then ask for every ones help because we must stick together. The bans of import are just the first step to hurt hunting.

Hunting is be sold out by many of the groups and other hunters who say there for hunters. We keep picking who's rights we are going to stick up for based on if we like it or not, we will keep seeing nothing but bad news I am afraid.

Time guys who thing this is a good thing wake up because just next time it maybe something they want to do that gets the bad news. The antis plan is working divide us as we fight and watch us give in thinking they will go away.

 

[Royal27]

So I wonder, if an outfitter had a ranch with lions and met the below SCI criteria, would it be allowed in the record book?

I guess it would as it would no longer be CBL, at least by the current definition?

https://www.safariclub.org/what-we-do/record-book/about-sci-record-book


SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals
An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book:


SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals



An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book:

A. The animal must have freely resided on the hunted property and the area to be hunted for six months, or longer.

B. The animal must be part of a breeding herd that is resident on the hunted property.

C. The operators of the hunted property must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times.

D. The hunted property must provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences.

E. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the hunted property.

F. The animal must exhibit its natural flight/survival instincts.

G. No zoo animal, exhibited animal or tame animal may be considered for entry into the Record Book.

H. Hunting methods employed cannot include driving, herding or chasing the animal to the hunter.

I. SCI supports prevention, management, and research of all wildlife diseases as it pertains to high fenced and non-high fenced hunting areas.

 

[SafariA]

I just had 2 Life members at the Phasa booth .... leaving to cancel membership . I am of the opinion that this was not a very well thought through process.

These are membership Org. that are answerablr to members. Decisions of this magnitude should be reverted to membership for a decision. They are going to take a BIG hit.

An invitation from my side . We have international membership at $80 a year. Please make use of this as you will get weekly info and newsletters from Phasa . Herewith you can make up your own mind about issues pertaining hunting in SA ..... you need not rely on 3rd hand info

 

[Red Leg]

Just so you guys know - there is at least one member here who believes this was a win for concept of ethical hunting. And I am a life member.

 

[whitetail]

This news about SCI’s decision makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. Caving to the liberal anti-hunting agenda. As stated in previous posts- what’s next?? I can only imagine and it’s most certainly not good for those of us who enjoy hunting. I won’t be re-upping my SCI membership...

 

[Dinsdale]

Just so you guys know - there is at least one member here who believes this was a win for concept of ethical hunting. And I am a life member.

Make that two...also a life member.

 

[Royal27]

So I wonder, if an outfitter had a ranch with lions and met the below SCI criteria, would it be allowed in the record book?

I guess it would as it would no longer be CBL, at least by the current definition?

https://www.safariclub.org/what-we-do/record-book/about-sci-record-book


SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals
An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book:


SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals



An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book:

A. The animal must have freely resided on the hunted property and the area to be hunted for six months, or longer.

B. The animal must be part of a breeding herd that is resident on the hunted property.

C. The operators of the hunted property must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times.

D. The hunted property must provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences.

E. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the hunted property.

F. The animal must exhibit its natural flight/survival instincts.

G. No zoo animal, exhibited animal or tame animal may be considered for entry into the Record Book.

H. Hunting methods employed cannot include driving, herding or chasing the animal to the hunter.

I. SCI supports prevention, management, and research of all wildlife diseases as it pertains to high fenced and non-high fenced hunting areas.

As I think about it, the criteria listed above also answers the question of "how is this any different than whitetail or high fence elk?"

In theory (and yes I get that there are those who will cheat the SCI system and try and enter an animal that shouldn't qualify), whitetail, and kudu, and elk as a general rule qualify under the above criteria, whereas CBL doesn't, and certainly the PHASASAPA current standards do not.

 

[Scott Slough]

Just so you guys know - there is at least one member here who believes this was a win for concept of ethical hunting. And I am a life member.

Two!

 

[SafariA]

As I think about it, the criteria listed above also answers the question of "how is this any different than whitetail or high fence elk?"

In theory (and yes I get that there are those who will cheat the SCI system and try and enter an animal that shouldn't qualify), whitetail, and kudu, and elk as a general rule qualify under the above criteria, whereas CBL doesn't, and certainly the PHASASAPA current standards do not.

The resulotion said min 30 days or more should it be requested by a member to satisfy requirements of his Org. This was mainly to include the options for SCI members that wanted their trophies enetered. They needed a 6 month min release period.

If I read the press statement correctly this would not be possible anymore even if the Lion was released 2 years. Anybody can assist me with this ?

 

[Royal27]

The resulotion said min 30 days or more should it be requested by a member to satisfy requirements of his Org. This was mainly to include the options for SCI members that wanted their trophies enetered. They needed a 6 month min release period.

If I read the press statement correctly this would not be possible anymore even if the Lion was released 2 years. Anybody can assist me with this ?

I think you're right, at least under current CBL definition. And, technically the resolution never met SCI requirements regardless.

Even if they were released more than six months in advance they would have to be part of a "breeding herd." So.... An outfit would have to be large enough to support a permanent pride and have enough food to do so. Truly self sustaining and with the other heavy brush/escape criteria met. I'm not aware of any PHASASAPA accredited locations that meet this standard, although I could be wrong (I know there are a couple "proof" programs out there to show that former CBL can hunt/breed on their own).

 

[edward]

SCI,PHONY HYPOCRITES!!!!!

 

[Scott Slough]

SCI,PHONY HYPOCRITES!!!!!

You realize that phony hypocrites is a double negative...making you supportive of SCI !

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

You realize that phony hypocrites is a double negative...making you supportive of SCI !

Proper correction. There's nothing phony about the hypocrisy.

I will respect that opinions are like belly buttons and there will be differences. However if you're of the opinion that this was a good move, I do hope you'll not support the hypocrisy of singling out only the CBL hunting operators. And will support also having all forms of animals/birds bred for the bullet as it were to be also banned from DSC/SCI.

 

[edward]

not being an educated person ill leave the perfection to those that like to show off.how ever,im sure my meaning was clear.if hunting farm raised lions is wrong then so is hunting farm raised plains game,hunting any animal in any way other than fair chase is wrong as far as this uneducated idiot is concerned weather it be wild or farm raised.over and OUT.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yeah this is a win for anti's. They can actually have two ways to succeed now. Import bans and captive breed hunting.

Now that lions are done behind fences, they can focus on deer, elk, buffalo, kudu, impala, pheasants, really anything. This can be their public face, use their campaign to discuss "blood" lust and born to die bullshit to the public. Knowing our support organizations will eventually cave.

Meanwhile lobbying dollars spent on import bans knowing that most hunters won't spend the money to hunt something not importable...causing a chain reaction of outfitters not being able to continue and less hunting overall.

You can see the slow death of hunting coming...hard to believe all this import and CBL stuff has really gain traction in the last 5 years.

 

[Hogpatrol]

The dark side of "scoring" trophies and keeping a book listing them.

Refer back to stage three.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/hunting-what-is-it.41676/#post-416469

I bailed from SCI after the Cecil debacle. They're in the same mode as the politicians, trying to please everyone.

 

[billc]

Yeah this is a win for anti's. They can actually have two ways to succeed now. Import bans and captive breed hunting.

Now that lions are done behind fences, they can focus on deer, elk, buffalo, kudu, impala, pheasants, really anything. This can be their public face, use their campaign to discuss "blood" lust and born to die bullshit to the public. Knowing our support organizations will eventually cave.

Meanwhile lobbying dollars spent on import bans knowing that most hunters won't spend the money to hunt something not importable...causing a chain reaction of outfitters not being able to continue and less hunting overall.

You can see the slow death of hunting coming...hard to believe all this import and CBL stuff has really gain traction in the last 5 years.

But just remember now some people's ethics are saved so they can sleep better. Hell it is even hard to blame sci or dsc anymore because we all just need to push our own ways on others. I am sure they dont even know what to do anymore. Shame instead of just not doing a form of HUNTING if you don't like it we will help the anti's stop it.

This is all just so stupid because we need to tell others what hunting is or isn't based on what we each think. What makes it worse we pick one animal over all the others that will now start the down word spiral.

 

[TXhunter65]

It really sucks hunting has to be this hard.

We’re attacked from all angles by thousands of agendas to end what we love, and we can’t even stand together.

I don’t believe any of us want to see a lion, captive bred or not shot in a “small” (I know, I know how small is too small) enclosure.

I also don’t believe most breeders participate in such practices.

Although sad it happens, what is sadder is the fact we continue to as a community to divide and proclaim “my way” of hunting is morally/ethically better than yours. So we’re going to punish/restrict/end your way of hunting.

It will only get worse.

 

[lcq]

Here we go again with the double standard. What about the captive bred bird hunts that are sold on their fundraising auctions? What about the captive bred beef that was served at their banquet last night? If you condemn one type of captive bred hunting you are condemning them all. Goodbye to the SCI membership.

it is very important to let them know why you are cancelling your membership. financial consequences to all groups but government make a huge impact