Ruger m77 Hawkeye safety jam?

[Mark A Ouellette]

Mark it sounds as if he may be referring to the old original M77 that came with a two position tang safety.

The problems referred to on this thread are unique to the three position safety on the M77 Mark II and M77 Hawkeye rifles.

Well anything is possible but not probable in this case. I am very percise in most things to include asking a detailed question.

From the other forum where I ask Jim WIsner the question.

​

Hi James,

Do you or anyone you know of make a M70-type safety for the Ruger M77?
A professional hunter in Africa asked the question after bumping his safety which jammed his M77 action
during a dangerous game shoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpq_jLUlw4Y [/td]


Below is a Jim Wisner 3-position M70-type safety for a M98 Mauser. He make the 3-position safeties with shrouds for several different type actions.

 

[AZDAVE]

will have to check my M77's. Thank you for pointing out this problem.

 

[HENRY GRIFFITHS SAFARIS]

Well anything is possible but not probable in this case. I am very percise in most things to include asking a detailed question.

From the other forum where I ask Jim WIsner the question.

​

Hi James,

Do you or anyone you know of make a M70-type safety for the Ruger M77?
A professional hunter in Africa asked the question after bumping his safety which jammed his M77 action
during a dangerous game shoot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpq_jLUlw4Y [/td]


Below is a Jim Wisner 3-position M70-type safety for a M98 Mauser. He make the 3-position safeties with shrouds for several different type actions.
View attachment 636132

Were can we contact them to order one?

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Were can we contact them to order one?

@HENRY GRIFFITHS SAFARIS Sorry, but the answer is that neither Jim Wisner or anyone he knows of makes a Model 70 type 3-position safety for the Ruger Model 77.

You may communicate with him and maybe, just maybe he can help with this problem.
Perhaps a 3-poistion safety for another rifle might be able to be fitted by a competent gunsmith to a M77?

Wisner's Inc.
146 Curtis Hill Rd. Chehalis, Washington, 98532 USA
360-748-4590

Wisner's Inc | Obsolete reproduction firearms manufacturer

Product inquiries | Wisner's Inc

 

[Laniarius]

This has never happened to me either, but while I have practiced fast cycling, I haven't done it under the stress of competition or in a field situation.

I kind of prefer the feel of the Ruger M77 safety over the Winchester Model 70 because it's easier to manipulate quietly with just my thumb, but this is a potential weakness in the Ruger that's good to know.

I understand why you're using the ball on the bolt handle, to facilitate speed, but I wonder if that makes it more likely to have the hand too close to the receiver? I.e., instead of the blade of your hand or small finger sliding back and catching on the bare steel knob, the rubber ball really grips near your thumb and almost encourages keeping the rest of your hand close to the receiver (and safety).

Thanks for pointing this out. I remain a fanboy of both the M77 and Model 70, and always find comparisons of their strengths and weaknesses to be interesting.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Thanks for the video and for sharing your experience. Unfortunately the gun did exactly what it is designed to do. The cause of the problem was an operator induced condition. Obviously this condition is not a good problem if you are dealing with wounded dangerous game, however being aware about the possibility is better than not knowing.

Personally I am a big fan of the Ruger M77 MK II rifles and own many. For me, the 3 position safety and scope mount design were leading features that made me select these rifles in my younger years for high volume deer culling in the rugged terrain of the Scottish Mountains. I often shot 4 rapid shots and never encountered accidently activating the safety while cycling the bolt, but I have never faced charging dangerous game either.

I was culling 75+ deer a year and regularly carried the Ruger rifles "on safe" through a lot of rough terrain, often crawling under thick tree plantations and other rough cover for over 30 years and never had the safe accidently come "off safe" from being manipulated by tree branches etc. Personally I like the Ruger M77 MKII safety design and have got on well with them over the years.

I did once get charged by a large red stag during the rut. it bust from heavy cover not far from me, he must of thought my squelching footstep noises and my occasional calls were really from another stag. I had my rifle in hand and managed to raise the gun at the same time as pushing the 3 position safety forward to shoot my .338 WM Ruger like at shotgun. I hit the stag square in the chest at about 5 yards, it was enough to make it swerve and miss me! It was a nice 12 point very large Red stag who collapsed and expired after a further 10 yards of travel. I realized after that the operation of the safety was just an action performed automatically as I raised my rifle, it paid to have a consistent rifle type and safety action where it effectively became second nature while hunting.

In recent years I took a brand new Benelli R1 semi automatic rifle out for opening whitetail day in Michigan, I had zeroed it great and it functioned perfect,. However, after trying to load and close the action quietly in the dark, I had a large group of deer under and in front of my tree stand at first light. For what seemed like 2 minutes, I tried to get the rifle to fire, my fumbling's included 4 insertions of the magazine and 4 bolt cycling actions, the nice looking 8 point buck and the rest of the group of deer eventually walked off further into the woods. I was left very frustrated & embarrassed to realize that I had not spent enough time with the rifle to know that you could not quietly hand close the action as it would not fully close the bolt for the rifle to function!

I agree with a number of comments above on the concept of carrying a rifle with the bolt partially closed, it can also have its issues.

If I was a PH in Africa maybe a Ruger would not be my first choice but as I client I would certainly take my .375 H&H Ruger RSM to hunt with. I took a Blaser R8 this year but got plenty of practice with it prior to my trip to make I was totally in tune with the safety and straight pull action. Some forms of actions and safety's may have advantages over others but I guess the key thing is to have a lot of experience with your rifle of choice and be open to understand the issues that could possibly occur and how to quickly correct them.

Now I've seen the video, if I ever have a bolt cycling issue with My Ruger's at least the first thing that I will check will be the safety, hopefully it will not be as a wounded buffalo is racing at me! Again thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have a Ruger m77 in 375 Ruger caliber, i have been using this gun for more than 10 years on dangerous game. I had a very interesting bad experience with it on the Safari&outdoor dangerous game shooting competition this past Saturday. I will post a video below showing what happened but in short if the safety is bumped while pulling the bolt back the safety lever will get stuck in the bolt effectively jamming the gun. The bolt will not move forward or back unless the safety is pulled back to the fire position.

I know this is kind of freak occurrence , but i think it can happen again ,now knowing it can happen i will pay close attention to it and if it does happen and one know about it it can be fixed pretty quick.



I was curious if anyone else have had this problem, and a possible remedy, my local gunsmith says not much can be done other than removing the safety all together, something im not comfortable with doing,

I could be wrong but i took apart my 30-06 and the wire for the safety came off and the tang safety fell out. when I reassembled it and i accidentally got the saftey reversed so the bolt would not release. I had to re take apart reverse the tang safety reconnect the wire and no more trouble for my M77 Ruger

 

[Frederik]

I could be wrong but i took apart my 30-06 and the wire for the safety came off and the tang safety fell out. when I reassembled it and i accidentally got the saftey reversed so the bolt would not release. I had to re take apart reverse the tang safety reconnect the wire and no more trouble for my M77 Ruger

Henry, maybe you could try this or actually get a gunsmith to remove the 1 stage and make it a two stage safety only.

 

[HENRY GRIFFITHS SAFARIS]

Henry, maybe you could try this or actually get a gunsmith to remove the 1 stage and make it a two stage safety only.

Just got back from a hunt/photo safari will have a look today!

 

[Oldwavy]

Thank you for sharing. While I haven't experienced it with my Ruger, I can understand how it might occur given the way the safety is built.

 

[HENRY GRIFFITHS SAFARIS]

I have decided to remove the safety completely and see how it works, its was very easy and quick to do, i have realised that big caliber rifles in South Africa become very expensive and very scarce since CZ stoped making the 550 rifles that used to cost 30k Rand is now 70k Rand and very scarce

It might be better if i stick with what i know and have used very successfully in the past but without the safety, i will carry it with bolt handle up or empty chamber when there is no immediate danger,

 

[Tim Blackwell]

Interesting post. I own two M77 Mk.II rifles, albeit not in 'stopping' calibres. I haven't had any issues even when reloading fast in field conditions. But I see how it can happen.

I used to like carrying my rifle bolt-raised too. But to the guys who advocate it as safe, I'd suggest you'd better have tested it on each and every rifle in your safe first. Many rifles will slam fire when the trigger is pulled when in this position. I didn't believe it either until I tested all of mine. Nowadays I just use the safety as it was designed for.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi,

I have read before another warning on this.
First of all, I cannot understand to carry a rifle, any kind, make and model, with the bolt handle up....!!!! I am a hunter since I remember, for the last 60 years, and I would NEVER carry a bolt rifle that way! It is asking for a trouble in may ways: open compleately and drop the cartridge, slam fired, close compleately leaving a loaded and ready to fire gun...NEVER to me.
I prefer all cartridges in the magazine until the moment of the true. Or, of course, cartridge in the chamber with the safety on. I would try to find a way to modify the safety blade in the Ruger to avoid the issue. The big bolt knob on the rifle in question is not good as I see it. Better to have a metal knob flattened. I will show one of my Mauser bolt made at the factory this way. Works great and is very unobtrusive.

 

[Laniarius]

Interesting post. I own two M77 Mk.II rifles, albeit not in 'stopping' calibres. I haven't had any issues even when reloading fast in field conditions. But I see how it can happen.

I used to like carrying my rifle bolt-raised too. But to the guys who advocate it as safe, I'd suggest you'd better have tested it on each and every rifle in your safe first. Many rifles will slam fire when the trigger is pulled when in this position. I didn't believe it either until I tested all of mine. Nowadays I just use the safety as it was designed for.

I will check later with mine but I'm pretty sure this is exactly what happens with a Ruger Hawkeye, the action being discussed here. If I recall correctly, pulling the trigger causes the bolt close, then it fires. This might be ok if you generally leave the chamber empty, and only use the "bolt up" method as a temporary safety in the last minute or so before firing.

 

[Tim Blackwell]

I will check later with mine but I'm pretty sure this is exactly what happens with a Ruger Hawkeye, the action being discussed here. If I recall correctly, pulling the trigger causes the bolt close, then it fires. This might be ok if you generally leave the chamber empty, and only use the "bolt up" method as a temporary safety in the last minute or so before firing.

OK it just got the better of me so I checked mine. Mine does NOT close nor fire when the trigger is pulled in the "1/2 cock" bolt handle-up position. (I'm quite sure that my Browning A-Bolt does however). It's worth checking your rifles well if you use this method.

However, as the picture below shows, my safety is well clear of safety in the middle position. The bolt functions just fine. This is a 77 Mk. II .350 Rem Mag (short action).

 

[Laniarius]

After checking, I can describe the situation I was thinking of. This happens with both my Ruger Hawkeye and Model 70. I took cell phone videos. I will try to share later.

Safety is off (forward position). Chamber a snapcap (or leave the chamber empty, I just wanted to simulate having a round in the chamber). Open the bolt about half way up so the handle is near horizontal. Pulling the trigger causes the bolt to close and the firing pin to drop on the snapcap. If you lift the bolt a bit further up, the bolt disengages and pulling the trigger doesn't do anything. However, then the bolt is more likely to be bumped back and this could eject the round being held by the controlled round feed. So, it looks to me like holding a Hawkeye's bolt partly open can act as a "safety" if the handle is up past horizontal, but it's not a very stable configuration. I can see how this method could be ok in the final moments of a stalk, after a round has been chambered, which is what I think the OP means to do.

This method of leaving the bolt partly up, only in the final moments of a stalk, worked fine with the Sauer 202 camp rifle I used in Namibia. But that was a different rifle design. The bolt seemed more stable in that intermediate position, and the trigger wouldn't do anything once the bolt handle was moved even a small amount up. Maybe that's more common among push feed actions (I have nothing against push feeds, just don't happen to own any in my small collection).

This is just to confirm what some of us alluded to above. With some rifles, in certain bolt positions, the trigger is still free to move and will in fact close the bolt and fire.

 

[Laniarius]

Here are video links to illustrate.

https://imgur.com/3Kj2lnQ

https://imgur.com/cRyvzHN

https://imgur.com/1gLcd63

 

[Laniarius]

OK it just got the better of me so I checked mine. Mine does NOT close nor fire when the trigger is pulled in the "1/2 cock" bolt handle-up position. (I'm quite sure that my Browning A-Bolt does however). It's worth checking your rifles well if you use this method.

However, as the picture below shows, my safety is well clear of safety in the middle position. The bolt functions just fine. This is a 77 Mk. II .350 Rem Mag (short action).

View attachment 639206

It looks like you have the the safety on (middle position) so I wouldn't expect the trigger to do anything. However, even with the safety off/forward, if the bolt is up past the horizontal, the lugs disengage (or whatever the proper terms are) and the trigger will not move the bolt, same as I found. Move the bolt a bit further down, however, and with the safety off the trigger will close the bolt. At least with my rifles.