Rigby / Holland & Holland / Westley Richards

[275r7x57]

Just a few days ago I was looking at Westley Richards website. They had a newly completed .404J takedown. I believe it was one of the most beautiful rifles (not gaudy) that I have ever seen. If money and time was no object (I am short of both) that would be the rifle I would have built for myself.

I have owned a new Rigby .416 DG rifle and I still own one of the originals. I got rid of the new one. I still own and shoot the old one (pre war) single square bridge. Why did I sell the new one? On a fast cycle quite often it would not feed. Big difference in the feed ramp.

If I was buying a new DG bolt gun today it would be a Heym Martini Express.

I will look into Heym just never thought about them.

275

 

[275r7x57]

Heym has a smoother action than Rigby and the original Mauser (both have a .416 Rigby). Compared them at a fair. Another option might be Prechtl. They make the actions with some improvements compared to the original design. https://www.prechtl-waffen.de/system-mauser-m98-cat285.html.

Please go into more detail about Heym being a smoother rifle.

275

 

[John Telford]

The answer is simple:
If you are ordering a .375 H H then it should be a Holland. If it was a.416 then I would have one by Rigby.
That being said the new Rigby M98 action with side safety is superb.

 

[Northman]

You beat me to it Mr. Telford.

I can't understand people who orders a companies proprietary cartridge from another company.

H&H cartridge for H&H rifles.
Rigby cartridge for Rigby rifles.
Winchester cartridge in Winchester rifles
Remington cartridge in Remington rifles.

If making a bespoke rifle of course!
Off the shelf... whatever you want.

 

[Rare Breed]

Yes a bespoke rifle. I have talked with all three makers and looking for some first hand experiences on likes and dislikes with the rifles and the makers. Is one rifle or maker better than the other as far as quality customer service and so on. I don’t not have any new production rifles and am looking for information from owners on them.

Thanks
275

Wow. WR starts at 40 thousand pounds before anything added. Nice!

 

[Red Leg]

Please go into more detail about Heym being a smoother rifle.

275

Make sure you understand what is being compared.

A production Rigby like the Stalker (I love mine) or Big Game is not the same thing as a Rigby best (or WR or H&H). So, relative action smoothness of production rifles is somewhat irrelevant.

If on the other hand, you are actually looking for a limited production rifle rather than a best, then Heym or Mauser should indeed be compared to the equivalent Rigby. Neither WR or H&H offer such a rifle.

If it truly is a premier firearm you want then you might consider one other House that makes truly magnificent bespoke firearms, and it is one which has a reputation at least as good as any of the premier British firms. Hartmann & Weiss. https://www.hartmannandweiss.com/en/repetierbuechsen.html

Indeed, in the rarified air in which you first indicated you had interest, H&W would be considered an especially informed option.

 

[JPmbogo]

I would strongly suggest that one consider a so-called "bespoke" rifle by a custom maker. There are many such individuals in the United States that can produce a bolt-action rifle that would equal and likely surpass in quality anything currently coming out of the London crowd, plus you will likely have a closer relationship with the maker than you would or will have with the big names. That is, unless one is hung up on paying for a status name. Think Rolex, Louis Vuitton, etc.

 

[uplander01]

Truly and interesting discussion. If it were me, I would buy a 416 rigby, and it would be one of the (2) Theo Jung rifles that are on the market right now, or perhaps the Fisher/Heilman/Hands collaboration rifle on GI that doesn't have a published price, and I would never look back. I'm not into waiting for 2 years for anything. But if I were, I would go with Westley Richards in a turn bolt or double. Seems to me most of the others are getting bought up by industry titans (Rigby/ HH) and honestly there is no way the tradition maintains when that happens. I work in the firearms industry and I've seen it time and again. Super wealthy guys don't buy companies to "increase quality". Been in the industry for 16 years and at one time or another put my hands on all of them. Over the years it seems like WR just keeps getting better. But now that Simon is gone, it will be interesting to see what happens, it was alway my understanding that he was kinda the personality behind that brand.

 

[uplander01]

Take Down Kal. .416 Rigby – Weapons Manufacture T. Jung GmbH

manufakturtjung.de

Seriously my friend, I can feel the money burning a whole in your pocket, get on a plain and go work out a deal on the above rifle.

 

[275r7x57]

You beat me to it Mr. Telford.

I can't understand people who orders a companies proprietary cartridge from another company.

H&H cartridge for H&H rifles.
Rigby cartridge for Rigby rifles.
Winchester cartridge in Winchester rifles
Remington cartridge in Remington rifles.

If making a bespoke rifle of course!
Off the shelf... whatever you want.

For the most part I agree with both of you. Although I have not always fallowed that line of thinking.

275

 

[Proneshooter]

There are at least a dozen folks here in the U.S. that can build you a bolt action rifle as good as anything that comes from across the ocean. Ralf Martini up in Canada is another that comes to mind, his base prices start at 23-25K but it's a darn nice base rifle.

 

[chashardy]

I just checked the exhibitor list for the Dallas Safari Club Convention. All three of the gunmakers that 275 is interested in will have booths at the show so if you can get to Dallas, you can talk to all three in one day and handle the rifles.

 

[JPmbogo]

You beat me to it Mr. Telford.

I can't understand people who orders a companies proprietary cartridge from another company.

H&H cartridge for H&H rifles.
Rigby cartridge for Rigby rifles.
Winchester cartridge in Winchester rifles
Remington cartridge in Remington rifles.

If making a bespoke rifle of course!
Off the shelf... whatever you want.

Since when are the venerable 375 H&H and 416 Rigby "proprietary cartridges."

 

[275r7x57]

Make sure you understand what is being compared.

A production Rigby like the Stalker (I love mine) or Big Game is not the same thing as a Rigby best (or WR or H&H). So, relative action smoothness of production rifles is somewhat irrelevant.

If on the other hand, you are actually looking for a limited production rifle rather than a best, then Heym or Mauser should indeed be compared to the equivalent Rigby. Neither WR or H&H offer such a rifle.

If it truly is a premier firearm you want then you might consider one other House that makes truly magnificent bespoke firearms, and it is one which has a reputation at least as good as any of the premier British firms. Hartmann & Weiss. https://www.hartmannandweiss.com/en/repetierbuechsen.html

Indeed, in the rarified air in which you first indicated you had interest, H&W would be considered an especially informed option.

Agree and completely understand about comparing apples to apples. I have never considered Heym on the same level with the others. Helm makes great rifles just never considered them for this build.

I have enjoyed looking at H&W now and in the past. I’m sure they make fine guns but not my thing. At least not now any ways.

275

 

[275r7x57]

I just checked the exhibitor list for the Dallas Safari Club Convention. All three of the gunmakers that 275 is interested in will have booths at the show so if you can get to Dallas, you can talk to all three in one day and handle the rifles.

Unfortunately I will not be able to make it this year. Thanks for checking.

275

 

[275r7x57]

I just checked the exhibitor list for the Dallas Safari Club Convention. All three of the gunmakers that 275 is interested in will have booths at the show so if you can get to Dallas, you can talk to all three in one day and handle the rifles.

It is great to walk through the exhibits and see all of the makers. Thanks again.

275

 

[275r7x57]

Since when are the venerable 375 H&H and 416 Rigby "proprietary cartridges."

I believe H&H aloud others or licensed others to make and produce rifles in the 375 H&H caliber in order to promote the caliber. If it wasn’t for this we more than likely would not have the 375 H&H today. If I am wrong please correct me. The 375 H&H was only proprietary only for a short time.

Not sure on the 416 Rigby.

275

 

[WAB]

I believe H&H aloud others or licensed others to make and produce rifles in the 375 H&H caliber in order to promote the caliber. If it wasn’t for this we more than likely would not have the 375 H&H today. If I am wrong please correct me. The 375 H&H was only proprietary only for a short time.

Not sure on the 416 Rigby.

275

I seem to recall that it started out life as a proprietary caliber.

 

[Commish]

I second Red Leg and would encourage looking into Hartmann and Weiss. Unfortunately they will not be able to attend the shows this year due to Covid, but they always have a beautiful selection of doubles, bolt actions, single shots, and gorgeous shotguns. It’s always nice that when you call their shop and are looking to speak to someone in English they usually put Mr. Otto Weiss on the phone.
If an English gun tour is something you’re considering, maybe a quick jaunt over to Hamburg could also be arranged to view their shop as well. They make their own 98 action, and according to one of the makers who has already been mentioned in this thread a couple times, H&W’s action is the best bar none in that maker’s opinion.

 

[275r7x57]

I second Red Leg and would encourage looking into Hartmann and Weiss. Unfortunately they will not be able to attend the shows this year due to Covid, but they always have a beautiful selection of doubles, bolt actions, single shots, and gorgeous shotguns. It’s always nice that when you call their shop and are looking to speak to someone in English they usually put Mr. Otto Weiss on the phone.
If an English gun tour is something you’re considering, maybe a quick jaunt over to Hamburg could also be arranged to view their shop as well. They make their own 98 action, and according to one of the makers who has already been mentioned in this thread a couple times, H&W’s action is the best bar none in that maker’s opinion.

I will give H&W a second look and may make a phone call. I was not aware that they make their own actions in house. Thank you and Red Leg.

275