Rigby / Holland & Holland / Westley Richards

I don't own any of these but have pored over them many times. I have visited the Rigby works and the Westley Richards works and the H&H and Purdey shops. Westley Richards impressed me the most, they are very old, established and solid. H&H perhaps need to get their rudder right again after their disasterous woke years. Rigby has a lot of history, but they too had an upset and are busy remaking their new image, quite successfully.
if it were me I would go with Westley Richards.
 
The firearm companies of yesteryear (for the most part) are no longer...

Rigby is currently owned by L&O Holding, also the parent company of Mauser, Blaser, SIG and JP Sauer along with several others mostly firearm companies. The action Rigby uses is made in Germany for Mauser and sent to England, not made in-house.

Holland & Holland was recently purchased by Beretta Holding who also owns Benelli, SAKO and Uberti (with others as well).

Purdy is owned by Richemont, a company that makes luxury good from watches and leather to firearms and jewelry.

To my knowledge, Westley Richards, Heym and Kreighoff are independent companies and beholden to no one but themselves. I don't know if this makes them more or less desirable as gunmakers.

What does this mean? It could mean nothing in reality when you look at which ever firearm you decide to get. But you should know that a current Rigby is not the same as one from 70 years ago. If it were me talking about a true Bespoke rifle at that price point, I would want to know that the company I commission to make it was in control of each and every aspect of that firearm.

I wish you the very best in your journey and hope you find EXACTLY what you are looking for.
 
The firearm companies of yesteryear (for the most part) are no longer...

Rigby is currently owned by L&O Holding, also the parent company of Mauser, Blaser, SIG and JP Sauer along with several others mostly firearm companies. The action Rigby uses is made in Germany for Mauser and sent to England, not made in-house.

Holland & Holland was recently purchased by Beretta Holding who also owns Benelli, SAKO and Uberti (with others as well).

Purdy is owned by Richemont, a company that makes luxury good from watches and leather to firearms and jewelry.

To my knowledge, Westley Richards, Heym and Kreighoff are independent companies and beholden to no one but themselves. I don't know if this makes them more or less desirable as gunmakers.

What does this mean? It could mean nothing in reality when you look at which ever firearm you decide to get. But you should know that a current Rigby is not the same as one from 70 years ago. If it were me talking about a true Bespoke rifle at that price point, I would want to know that the company I commission to make it was in control of each and every aspect of that firearm.

I wish you the very best in your journey and hope you find EXACTLY what you are looking for.
The barreled actions that Rigby use for their new rifles are sourced very similarly to their old rifles. Both were sourced in the white directly from Mauser in Germany.

the only real difference I can see is that both Mauser and Rigby have different / new addresses. And both concerns are now owed by one company.

But for what it’s worth…if I could afford a bespoke rifle from any of the London addresses …. I’d probably commission a H&H …….and then immediately buy a Rigby so that I’ve got a rifle to use while I wait out a two year delivery.

anyway….it’s a problem I’d love to have.
 
The barreled actions that Rigby use for their new rifles are sourced very similarly to their old rifles. Both were sourced in the white directly from Mauser in Germany.

the only real difference I can see is that both Mauser and Rigby have different / new addresses. And both concerns are now owed by one company.

But for what it’s worth…if I could afford a bespoke rifle from any of the London addresses …. I’d probably commission a H&H …….and then immediately buy a Rigby so that I’ve got a rifle to use while I wait out a two year delivery.

anyway….it’s a problem I’d love to have.
Couldn't agree more with this about the Rigby's. If there are some significant differences or any real differences between the old and new Rigby's I'd love to know what those differences actually are. They genuinely seem to be trying their best to make them as close to the vintage Rigby's as they can.
 
Hope you find what you are after. Probably a tough decision.
Any classic rifle from any of them would be nice to have. Being a bespoke rifle I guess you have to narrow it down to one.
 
The firearm companies of yesteryear (for the most part) are no longer...

Rigby is currently owned by L&O Holding, also the parent company of Mauser, Blaser, SIG and JP Sauer along with several others mostly firearm companies. The action Rigby uses is made in Germany for Mauser and sent to England, not made in-house.

Holland & Holland was recently purchased by Beretta Holding who also owns Benelli, SAKO and Uberti (with others as well).

Purdy is owned by Richemont, a company that makes luxury good from watches and leather to firearms and jewelry.

To my knowledge, Westley Richards, Heym and Kreighoff are independent companies and beholden to no one but themselves. I don't know if this makes them more or less desirable as gunmakers.

What does this mean? It could mean nothing in reality when you look at which ever firearm you decide to get. But you should know that a current Rigby is not the same as one from 70 years ago. If it were me talking about a true Bespoke rifle at that price point, I would want to know that the company I commission to make it was in control of each and every aspect of that firearm.

I wish you the very best in your journey and hope you find EXACTLY what you are looking for.
Westley Richards doesn’t file up its Mauser actions from a block of steel either. Not that I think it matters, but Rigby does source within their own larger corporate family. As I say, any practical difference between the “best” of these three houses would be in self-perceived pride in ownership. The sort of friendly argument those who don’t have to ask have over a 25 yr Macallan while enjoying a Fuente Fuente Opus X.

Were it me, I’d take a week, fly to the UK and place my order with whomever convinced me.
 
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Westley Richards doesn’t file up its Mauser actions from a block of steel either. Not that I think it matters, but Rigby does source within their own larger corporate family. As I say, any practical difference between the “best” of these three houses would be in self-perceived pride in ownership. The sort of friendly argument those who don’t have to ask have over a 25 yr Macallan while enjoying a Fuente Fuente Opus X.
Certainly good problems to have.
 
(1) Do not legally accept the rifle until you have test-fired it yourself and you are satisfied with the grouping. This should not be a problem, but the rifle must fit you.

(2) I have an H&H .375 from the late-60s. It is not particularly well put together, but it functions. I did notice that the modern H&H rifles come equipped with a much heavier barrel than mine. It's no good asking the gormless and patronising 24 year-old in the gunroom, who has never been to Africa, why it has to have such a weighty barrel and, after all, he's not going to be carrying it in the heat through the bush.

My point, I suppose, is that you need to check and handle these things before you commit.

(3) As soon as you walk out of the door with your new purchase, you will lose approximately 40-50% in depreciation. I am all in favour of pretty rifles but they are, after all, simply tools designed for killing. The harder that you use your rifle, the more value that you are taking out of it. I have no objection to people using their rifles at all - that is what they are there for - but it risks being a substantial financial punch on the nose.

(4) You should also look at Purdey (which is within walking distance of H&H) and their chassis system. I am not sure that it is anything more than a gimmick. I was poking around there a couple of years ago and asked if they could make me a rifle based on a Mannlicher-Schöenauer action. The chap was a bit wary, but the answer came back yes, as long as I supplied the action. My wife decided that I have better things to spend my money on, but I suggest to you that that would be an interesting project and likely to hold its value better. You would avoid the sloppy Mauser bolt and awkward safety.

(5) Also Mark Crudgington at George Gibbs.

(6) There is no particular magic about any of the makers mentioned in this thread. All are capable of producing a beautiful rifle, all based around a Mauser action, use essentially the same outworkers, and arrive at the same end result but with a different name engraved on the barrel.

So, incidentally, are a few independent makers who will also produce the same thing at a third of the cost: eg. Lee Butler

(7) My particular bug-bear is the quality of staff in the gunrooms, who tend to know very little about the subject and simply steer purchasers towards the most expensive options. H&H used to be notorious for this, but I hear that they have got better after recruiting Patrick Hawes from Bonhams. You might want to insist that you actually speak to the people making the rifle rather than the smoothies in the gunroom.
 

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(1) Do not legally accept the rifle until you have test-fired it yourself and you are satisfied with the grouping. This should not be a problem, but the rifle must fit you.

(2) I have an H&H .375 from the late-60s. It is not particularly well put together, but it functions. I did notice that the modern H&H rifles come equipped with a much heavier barrel than mine. It's no good asking the gormless and patronising 24 year-old in the gunroom, who has never been to Africa, why it has to have such a weighty barrel and, after all, he's not going to be carrying it in the heat through the bush.

My point, I suppose, is that you need to check and handle these things before you commit.

(3) As soon as you walk out of the door with your new purchase, you will lose approximately 40-50% in depreciation. I am all in favour of pretty rifles but they are, after all, simply tools designed for killing. The harder that you use your rifle, the more value that you are taking out of it. I have no objection to people using their rifles at all - that is what they are there for - but it risks being a substantial financial punch on the nose.

(4) You should also look at Purdey (which is within walking distance of H&H) and their chassis system. I am not sure that it is anything more than a gimmick. I was poking around there a couple of years ago and asked if they could make me a rifle based on a Mannlicher-Schöenauer action. The chap was a bit wary, but the answer came back yes, as long as I supplied the action. My wife decided that I have better things to spend my money on, but I suggest to you that that would be an interesting project and likely to hold its value better. You would avoid the sloppy Mauser bolt and awkward safety.

(5) Also Mark Crudgington at George Gibbs.

(6) There is no particular magic about any of the makers mentioned in this thread. All are capable of producing a beautiful rifle, all based around a Mauser action, use essentially the same outworkers, and arrive at the same end result but with a different name engraved on the barrel.

So, incidentally, are a few independent makers who will also produce the same thing at a third of the cost: eg. Lee Butler

(7) My particular bug-bear is the quality of staff in the gunrooms, who tend to know very little about the subject and simply steer purchasers towards the most expensive options. H&H used to be notorious for this, but I hear that they have got better after recruiting Patrick Hawes from Bonhams. You might want to insist that you actually speak to the people making the rifle rather than the smoothies in the gunroom.
"...... simply tools designed for killing".
Hmmmm, so you view a black assault rifle and a London Best with exhibition stock as one in the same? Oh well.
 
All of these problems we are discussing I will never have. Fortunately for me I have visited the Westley Richards factory and John Rigby and lived near the U.S. Westley office for several years and consider the manager a friend of mine along with Marc Newton at Rigby Not to mention that I do learn from discussions such as this. Good luck to any and all that are or will be involved. And lets see some photos after the delivery!!!
 
Just a few days ago I was looking at Westley Richards website. They had a newly completed .404J takedown. I believe it was one of the most beautiful rifles (not gaudy) that I have ever seen. If money and time was no object (I am short of both) that would be the rifle I would have built for myself.

I have owned a new Rigby .416 DG rifle and I still own one of the originals. I got rid of the new one. I still own and shoot the old one (pre war) single square bridge. Why did I sell the new one? On a fast cycle quite often it would not feed. Big difference in the feed ramp.

If I was buying a new DG bolt gun today it would be a Heym Martini Express.
 
I am a big Rigby fan. Managing Director Marc Newton is very knowledgeable and passionate about everything Rigby. I have a Big Game in 416, a Highland Stalker in 30-06 and Clara has a London Best in 275. Her rifle was built on a small ring Oberndorf action. We love all three rifles.

Most people will never understand the cost or passion for high end rifles such as Rigby, H&H, Westly Richards, etc. Get what makes your heart flutter the most. Good luck and safe shooting.
 
I agree with Tokoloshe, I would ask Heym to build a magazine rifle for me.
 

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(1) Do not legally accept the rifle until you have test-fired it yourself and you are satisfied with the grouping. This should not be a problem, but the rifle must fit you.

(2) I have an H&H .375 from the late-60s. It is not particularly well put together, but it functions. I did notice that the modern H&H rifles come equipped with a much heavier barrel than mine. It's no good asking the gormless and patronising 24 year-old in the gunroom, who has never been to Africa, why it has to have such a weighty barrel and, after all, he's not going to be carrying it in the heat through the bush.

My point, I suppose, is that you need to check and handle these things before you commit.

(3) As soon as you walk out of the door with your new purchase, you will lose approximately 40-50% in depreciation. I am all in favour of pretty rifles but they are, after all, simply tools designed for killing. The harder that you use your rifle, the more value that you are taking out of it. I have no objection to people using their rifles at all - that is what they are there for - but it risks being a substantial financial punch on the nose.

(4) You should also look at Purdey (which is within walking distance of H&H) and their chassis system. I am not sure that it is anything more than a gimmick. I was poking around there a couple of years ago and asked if they could make me a rifle based on a Mannlicher-Schöenauer action. The chap was a bit wary, but the answer came back yes, as long as I supplied the action. My wife decided that I have better things to spend my money on, but I suggest to you that that would be an interesting project and likely to hold its value better. You would avoid the sloppy Mauser bolt and awkward safety.

(5) Also Mark Crudgington at George Gibbs.

(6) There is no particular magic about any of the makers mentioned in this thread. All are capable of producing a beautiful rifle, all based around a Mauser action, use essentially the same outworkers, and arrive at the same end result but with a different name engraved on the barrel.

So, incidentally, are a few independent makers who will also produce the same thing at a third of the cost: eg. Lee Butler

(7) My particular bug-bear is the quality of staff in the gunrooms, who tend to know very little about the subject and simply steer purchasers towards the most expensive options. H&H used to be notorious for this, but I hear that they have got better after recruiting Patrick Hawes from Bonhams. You might want to insist that you actually speak to the people making the rifle rather than the smoothies in the gunroom.
1) It will be a bespoke "best" rifle, and it will be made to the exact measurements to which he and the gunmaker agree. And yes, heading out to the range before taking it home would be an excellent idea, and a fun part of the acquisition process.

2) The barrel will be to the profile specified by the client. It is true that the sixties and seventies saw the nadir of British gunmaking.

3) No one I know who was buying a London best, gun or rifle, were looking at it as an investment. Investments are where they put their real money. A rifle of this quality is purchased because the owner wants a London (or Birmingham) best created especially for him.

4) A bespoke Purdey would be of the same quality as the other three. All have a few unique attributes that might appeal to a potential client.

5) Would be a fine rifle I am sure, but would not carry the cache' of the other three.

6) Agreed - sort of. And yes, he could find several craftsmen here or in Europe who could build him a bespoke custom rifle of superb quality. Indeed, I would likely look at Todd Ramirez if I were looking for another bespoke (custom as we would say) rifle. But none would say H&H, Rigby, or Westley Richards. Though one of Todd's rifles will place a buyer pretty much in same general price range, and is an equally bad "investment."

7) If actually ordering such a rifle, they will delighted to spend real time with a customer. He could even do it with Rigby at DSC or SCI. But, your point is a valid one, and why I strongly suggest he make the decision in person.
 
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The firearm companies of yesteryear (for the most part) are no longer...

Rigby is currently owned by L&O Holding, also the parent company of Mauser, Blaser, SIG and JP Sauer along with several others mostly firearm companies. The action Rigby uses is made in Germany for Mauser and sent to England, not made in-house.

Holland & Holland was recently purchased by Beretta Holding who also owns Benelli, SAKO and Uberti (with others as well).

Purdy is owned by Richemont, a company that makes luxury good from watches and leather to firearms and jewelry.

To my knowledge, Westley Richards, Heym and Kreighoff are independent companies and beholden to no one but themselves. I don't know if this makes them more or less desirable as gunmakers.

What does this mean? It could mean nothing in reality when you look at which ever firearm you decide to get. But you should know that a current Rigby is not the same as one from 70 years ago. If it were me talking about a true Bespoke rifle at that price point, I would want to know that the company I commission to make it was in control of each and every aspect of that firearm.

I wish you the very best in your journey and hope you find EXACTLY what you are looking for.
Unfortunately things have changed in the last 120 years. Some good and some not so good. I may have been born a few years to late.

275
 
(1) Do not legally accept the rifle until you have test-fired it yourself and you are satisfied with the grouping. This should not be a problem, but the rifle must fit you.

(2) I have an H&H .375 from the late-60s. It is not particularly well put together, but it functions. I did notice that the modern H&H rifles come equipped with a much heavier barrel than mine. It's no good asking the gormless and patronising 24 year-old in the gunroom, who has never been to Africa, why it has to have such a weighty barrel and, after all, he's not going to be carrying it in the heat through the bush.

My point, I suppose, is that you need to check and handle these things before you commit.

(3) As soon as you walk out of the door with your new purchase, you will lose approximately 40-50% in depreciation. I am all in favour of pretty rifles but they are, after all, simply tools designed for killing. The harder that you use your rifle, the more value that you are taking out of it. I have no objection to people using their rifles at all - that is what they are there for - but it risks being a substantial financial punch on the nose.

(4) You should also look at Purdey (which is within walking distance of H&H) and their chassis system. I am not sure that it is anything more than a gimmick. I was poking around there a couple of years ago and asked if they could make me a rifle based on a Mannlicher-Schöenauer action. The chap was a bit wary, but the answer came back yes, as long as I supplied the action. My wife decided that I have better things to spend my money on, but I suggest to you that that would be an interesting project and likely to hold its value better. You would avoid the sloppy Mauser bolt and awkward safety.

(5) Also Mark Crudgington at George Gibbs.

(6) There is no particular magic about any of the makers mentioned in this thread. All are capable of producing a beautiful rifle, all based around a Mauser action, use essentially the same outworkers, and arrive at the same end result but with a different name engraved on the barrel.

So, incidentally, are a few independent makers who will also produce the same thing at a third of the cost: eg. Lee Butler

(7) My particular bug-bear is the quality of staff in the gunrooms, who tend to know very little about the subject and simply steer purchasers towards the most expensive options. H&H used to be notorious for this, but I hear that they have got better after recruiting Patrick Hawes from Bonhams. You might want to insist that you actually speak to the people making the rifle rather than the smoothies in the gunroom.
1. Agreed.

2. I try to stay away from guns of that era.

3. I don’t not like pretty rifles or any firearms for that matter. Most engraving on custom or bespoke rifles is over done and detracts from the form and function of the rifle. Most game scenes do as well. Most not all. Engraving in my mind should be second to the rifle not first and should compliment the rifle and highlight the controls and the rifles form and function. A rifle should be blued steel and walnut and not all that other junk. In my mind a rifle is a tool. Ruger or Rigby. A tool that should be used and enjoyed for its intended purpose and at the end of a hard day of hunting successful or not you can sit back and admire the tools of the trad and the workers and their craftsmanship that went in to building the tools.

4. I will visit Purdey when there but never been a Purdue guy.

5. I will look into this.

6. Agreed and will look into independent makers.

7. I can not stand people trying to sell an item that they do not have any knowledge of or are not educated about.

275
 
"...... simply tools designed for killing".
Hmmmm, so you view a black assault rifle and a London Best with exhibition stock as one in the same? Oh well.
Yes both are tools. Some nicer and have more class than others but tools at the end of the day. Some are great works of craftsmanship and engineering but not art!

275
 
All of these problems we are discussing I will never have. Fortunately for me I have visited the Westley Richards factory and John Rigby and lived near the U.S. Westley office for several years and consider the manager a friend of mine along with Marc Newton at Rigby Not to mention that I do learn from discussions such as this. Good luck to any and all that are or will be involved. And lets see some photos after the delivery!!!
Sometimes the adventures are just as enjoyable as the end results. My grandpa used to always tell me that the greater things in life are worth waiting for.

275
 
Just a few days ago I was looking at Westley Richards website. They had a newly completed .404J takedown. I believe it was one of the most beautiful rifles (not gaudy) that I have ever seen. If money and time was no object (I am short of both) that would be the rifle I would have built for myself.

I have owned a new Rigby .416 DG rifle and I still own one of the originals. I got rid of the new one. I still own and shoot the old one (pre war) single square bridge. Why did I sell the new one? On a fast cycle quite often it would not feed. Big difference in the feed ramp.

If I was buying a new DG bolt gun today it would be a Heym Martini Express.
Thank you for the information on the new Rigby.

275
 

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idjeffp wrote on Jon R15's profile.
Hi Jon,
I saw your post for the .500 NE cases. Are these all brass or are they nickel plated? Hard for me to tell... sorry.
Thanks,
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Boise, ID
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1200 for the 375 barrel and accessories?
 
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