Rifle rentals, how much?

[Foxi]

No Trophies imports banned in UK yet . Several European countries have France and Netherlands banned lion imports already.
So no we didn't start it

yes ,because Boris Johnson is in hospital and his pregnant partner is in quarantine.
It's just postponed by Corona.
Those who follow the political events (government and air carriers) do not share optimism.

 

[Dudders]

yes ,because Boris Johnson is in hospital and his pregnant partner is in quarantine.
It's just postponed by Corona.
Those who follow the political events (government and air carriers) do not share optimism.

Didn't say it was not going to happen just pointing out it has not happened yet and none of us know what form it will take .

 

[Buckdog]

Apart from possible import and travel hassles, consider possible damage of rifle, during air travel to and from destination, with lousy fork lift drivers at airport.

Photo below is from this forum from another forum member, but there are several cases discussed of rifles damaged during handling at airports, despite being properly packed in heavy duty aluminium cases. Do the reasearch on forum.
Now if Remington 700 is damaged, is one thing. Another matter, what if the cracked stock is on londons best (5 figure number damage)?
Answer is individual, of course.

Bottom line, travelling with rifle, makes additional risks involved. 4 risks involved are: rifle delayed, rifle lost, rifle damaged, possible hassle with papers and procedures depending from country to country and airline company to another. The first three are actually force majuere, hunters having no control of it, just pure luck. For first three, the chances of risk are doubled, because the rifle travel two way.

I have tried or owned good number of sporting rifles, I shoot good number of rounds per year at target, (some competitions as well) and I feel that I can handle average factory center fire rifle sufficiently well at normal hunting distances.
That is for plains game.

Having said that, in Africa, I had two woundings, but with successful short tracking, by great tracker so, no losses. (game recovered at less then 600 meters direct line from place of shot). So, I had following experience with African camp rifles, 2 safaris, zero losses, two woundings, zero misses, total 13 heads of game.
If additional shot was required it was for shot of mercy.

However, I do not say you are wrong, there are many advantages in using own rifles. And many reasons to bring own rifles to africa,

The question is when the risk of taking the rifle is worth it? Answer is individual.

Personally, for me, it is when hunting DG.
For buffalo I am planning to have my own 375. For PG, I am happy with camp rifle.

View attachment 340572

Mark,
I get what you say I have traveled many places for many decades with my weapons from the days when I jumped off a super cub and ran onto the back of a cargo plane/passenger plane in bethel Alaska with a loaded 375 h&H no case and tossed it into the pseudo overhead bin with the other guns there and no one cared no big deal hey its AK everybody has a gun to now where travel anywhere anytime with a gun is a big deal and a big hassle. Cost of gun shouldn't be an issue because if it 5 figures who wouldn't insure it! But I get it some folks cant do hassles. So they have safe queens and rent guns. Me I will continue deal with the BS and take mine and yes I have had plenty fun NOT traveling with guns from damage to attempted confiscation.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi everyone,

I had no idea how much I would stir up when I started this thread! I would like to make a couple of comments.

We have loaner/rental firearms mostly for Client convenience, I am not in the rental business, but look at providing rifles as a service, but if I am going to provide a service I want to provide a damned good one. It is unfortunate that here is Zimbabwe we are faced with a arms embargo, justified but unfortunate for us involved in hunting. Most of the new firearms that end up being in Zimbabwe come through South Africa, for that to take place South Africa must issue a export permit, I do not know the cost? Then we have to have a import permit and license, cost $500.00. Then there is dealer markup! A M-70 Winchester that would sell in the states for about $1,500.00 would be at least $3,000.00 here, then we have scope, plan on $3,000 plus for a new Swarovski scope. Now we have $6,000.00 into a M-70. On top of that on our licenses will be a specific number of rounds that you are allowed to posses and purchase per year, usually 100rds, which must be purchased from a dealer, there are only a very few! Dealers must go through the same importing procedures for ammunition and the permit costs are similar, do not even think reloading!! Licenses are renewed every 3 years. The number of firearms we are allowed to posses varies, a PH may posses up to 5, a company up to 15 (I believe).

The above information was just for background of what we face. Here are the firearms that we have available, depending on client and the game they are hunting.
M-70s safari expresses, 2 .375 H&H Swarovski 1.5-5
M-70 safari express .300 Win Mag, Kahles 3-10
Rigby Mauser single square bridge pre war .404j express sights
Jefferies Mauser 98, .404j, express sights, Bell & Carslon stock (red dot reflex/ Swarovski 1-6 these optics are planned for future)
CZ or Ruger 10-22 .22s
Benilli Semi auto 12 gauge

Since almost all of you know what the value of the firearms are in the states, take that times 2 to 3 and you will have a idea of how much we have invested in firearms for client convenience a convenience that take as much pride in as our Land Cruisers, which thanks to our duties and taxes cost 50% more than in South Africa. Oh, double cabs are 100% more!

 

[mark-hunter]

Dear Lon,
I can say, this is quite good inventory! Especially with such regulations! Congrats!

I have question:
Based on years of your experience, how frequently do you have clients coming for safari, with rifles delayed, damaged, or lost, or with lost or delayed ammunition in a separate case?
Or clients coming to safari, that for any reason not mentioned before were not able to use their rifles, but had to use camp rifles?
Does it happen sometimes, how often?

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Dear Lon,
I can say, this is quite good inventory! Especially with such regulations! Congrats!

I have question:
Based on years of your experience, how frequently do you have clients coming for safari, with rifles delayed, damaged, or lost, or with lost or delayed ammunition in a separate case?
Or clients coming to safari, that for any reason not mentioned before were not able to use their rifles, but had to use camp rifles?
Does it happen sometimes, how often?

Mark,
I know that this addressed to Lon, but from my experience, in the last 10 year, it has happened once that a hunter's rifle did not arrived. It was waiting for him in Johannesburg when he was on route back to the USA.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi Mark,


I would say 1 out of 25 at the most (delayed) I think it has a lot to do with how far we are away from the airport the farther that camp is away the more likely (just kidding). What we have found much more likely is that the clients rifle somehow unusable, missing or damaged sighting. I can usually repair the problem, but that takes valuable hunting time. I recently repaired a Sako Brown Bear with a missing front sight it was a full days job of filling and fitting, we won at the end of the day. In the meantime client used the Jefferies in .404J he took his buffalo with it and wanted to buy the Jefferies or trade (no deal), also no charge for .404 or ammo "only one round used", perfect day!

I almost forgot, I am in the process of putting together a Whitworth, Mauser .375 H&H designing this one as primarly a leopard rifle. The other rifle that I forgot to list as a user in a Ruger 77 in .308 with Kahles 3-10, primarily for plains game, leopard in a pinch.

Just as a thought for those of you that are concerned about damaging wood stocks, having a quality synthetic stock that you travel with might be the answer. The damage that can be done to your pride and joy can be heartbreaking. We once had a National Parks Ranger who jammed his AK-47 in the cruiser rifle rack, guess where the banana clip rested, yep right on the rifle stock which was under it, fortunately it was one of my rifles not a clients, ruined the stock!

 

[mark-hunter]

Lon, and Marius,
Thanks for answer!!

 

[CBH Australia]

Nice rifles , I would hunt with you.
Otherwise regardless of price, be reasonable , charge a fair price and we /clients will see it as fair. You are not a hire business and quality rifles/Optics should last but you must account for some maintenance and damage etc.
The rifle/scope I hired would be maybe 4K US dollars, that’s a lot for a blue collar worker average wage earner like me. I looked after it and it was noted.
Regardless of wealth or personal position you need to be fair and equitable and I’m sure you have been. You will own some firearms as a cost of doing business and part of your passion.
We will appreciate your gear and give good feedback for service

 

[Dawg2019]

I took advantage of the rifle rental during my first/only Africa safari. I had never traveled internationally with firearms before. I believe the rifle hire for my friend and myself was $50 a day and $10 a round. We thought this was fair and had no issue with it. Being as I didn’t own a .375 at the time it made since for my first trip. I will likely be owning one before returning and if policy allows will be bringing my own when I return.

 

[Ragman]

I'm glad some outfitters have replied. It's good to know everyones perspective.

And thank you Marius @KMG Hunting Safaris for allowing me to use your rifles last hunt, it was greatly appreciated.

I second that...thank you Marius! I would also like to take my own rifle again, but was very comfortable shooting your Ruger.

For those that know me, I am a very laid back guy. Once I’m there I find it easy to just go with the flow and enjoy myself. However there is something about air travel that just stresses me right out and that is even travelling without firearms. In this day and age I would be a basket case trying to bring my own!

So @KMG Hunting Safaris be prepared if I’m lucky enough to hunt with you again!

 

[jacques smith]

Hi Lon and Marius
Interesting questions in this thread

Long ago I decided using PH equipment frees me up from hassles and opens up border

Jumping, sightseeing etc so I use what’s available

Out of many, many guns I’ve only had one or two offered that were junk

Perhaps I’ve been lucky but loaner rifles I’ve used have been quality and greatly appreciated

I don’t mind small day rates and ammo costs. I just want to know upfront what’s available so I can pull something similar out to tune up

Best to everyone. Jacques

 

[Newboomer]

I have traveled to RSA three times and have taken my own rifles and ammo. I take one for pg and one for dg in an SKB two gun case weighing in at about 45 lbs so there is no overweight charge. I work with Henry at Rifle Permits for meet and greet at JNB for US 150.00. I had to separate my ammo from my check bag but there was no charge. The PH met me in Port Elizabeth and handled the fees there. Henry got me through JNB coming home at no extra charge. That was the only charge I have encountered other than hunt costs. I have never had a problem with airlines or customs, just the usual TSA folderol.

I kind of have to take my own rifles because I have short arms and my stocks are cut to 12 3/4 inches. A regular stock is way too long and very unwieldy and scope eye relief is way off. Plus, I like to use artillery I am intimately familiar with when chasing something that could hurt me or worse. I want to know what my rifle will do at various ranges on pg, as well. My guns are sighted for my handloads and require only a few rounds at destination to compensate for changes in altitude, humidity, etc.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I think almost everyone would prefer hunting with their own rifle and I understand the hassle part, but where do rifles actually get damaged? I believe in the U.S. you are required to have "airline approved rifle case" which means nothing when a forklift runs over it. Since you are supposed to have the only key to open the case "would it not have to be opened and inspected in your presence"? It boggles my mind that a good rifle with good sights or scope can take the beating they take in a soft case in the back of a cruiser, but then receive the damage that they receive in a proper hard case on a conveyor belt or in the hull of the same plane that you are flying on? Lost firearms I understand, delayed I understand, but how the hell do they manage to do the damage that they do, unless it is deliberate? Most complaints that I hear about are out of JFK. I should mention that Emirates seems to take better care of firearms and ammo, but I believe they require more paper work and are a bit stricter. Looking forward to the day that I fly with them.

I do know that I am much more likely to receive damage or theft coming from the states, than going to the states and it is always in the bags that have either TSA or U.S. customs inspection tags. Like the time that I had 14 sealed bags of Starbucks ground coffee opened and dumped back into my duffel bag, all 14!

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

Don’t rent a rifle, you don’t know what shit you’ll get. Last year in Zimbabwe, hunting buffalo. I had brought my own double along, however my friend hired a gun. Well both rifles available were almost out of order! What a disappointment.

Besides, what value has game hunted with someone else’s weapon??? I travelled a lot with my gun, there was never ever an issue.

 

[IvW]

Don’t rent a rifle, you don’t know what shit you’ll get. Last year in Zimbabwe, hunting buffalo. I had brought my own double along, however my friend hired a gun. Well both rifles available were almost out of order! What a disappointment.

Besides, what value has game hunted with someone else’s weapon??? I travelled a lot with my gun, there was never ever an issue.

That may be so, but a simple email with confirmation pictures of rifles available and at what cost could easily resolve that before deciding...

Proper communication is key to a successful Safari, before during and after that is.

 

[375Fox]

I think almost everyone would prefer hunting with their own rifle and I understand the hassle part, but where do rifles actually get damaged? I believe in the U.S. you are required to have "airline approved rifle case" which means nothing when a forklift runs over it. Since you are supposed to have the only key to open the case "would it not have to be opened and inspected in your presence"? It boggles my mind that a good rifle with good sights or scope can take the beating they take in a soft case in the back of a cruiser, but then receive the damage that they receive in a proper hard case on a conveyor belt or in the hull of the same plane that you are flying on? Lost firearms I understand, delayed I understand, but how the hell do they manage to do the damage that they do, unless it is deliberate? Most complaints that I hear about are out of JFK. I should mention that Emirates seems to take better care of firearms and ammo, but I believe they require more paper work and are a bit stricter. Looking forward to the day that I fly with them.

I do know that I am much more likely to receive damage or theft coming from the states, than going to the states and it is always in the bags that have either TSA or U.S. customs inspection tags. Like the time that I had 14 sealed bags of Starbucks ground coffee opened and dumped back into my duffel bag, all 14!

When you arrive at airport in USA, you get checked in like normal except you declare you have a firearm. They give you an unloaded declaration to sign. You take it to TSA to be inspected in your presence and they take it back. Yes, it needs to be in a locked hard sided case where only you have the key. The only issue I’ve had has been some locking latches were damaged on my first trip, ever since then I have duck taped them after TSA inspects it, never had issue again. I have a cabelas xtreme single gun case, I’ve never had to re sight in a gun after travel.
I have always taken delta flight from Atlanta to Johannesburg, then whatever flight inside Africa I need. I always had pre-approved permit in Johannesburg and am done in 10 minutes. I have never had an issue with firearm yet on 7 trips where I chose to bring my own. Only hassle, I’ve ever had with my own firearm was having to wait 45 minutes for a police officer that could write a permit to actually come to the office in Windhoek. I think the “hassle” is something that’s been repeated so many times everyone believes it.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Don’t rent a rifle, you don’t know what shit you’ll get. Last year in Zimbabwe, hunting buffalo. I had brought my own double along, however my friend hired a gun. Well both rifles available were almost out of order! What a disappointment.

Besides, what value has game hunted with someone else’s weapon??? I travelled a lot with my gun, there was never ever an issue.

Very unfortunate what happened to your friend, I hope he was still able to take his desired animals.

Every PH or Safari Co. should strive to see that all equipment and facilities are in number one condition. Malfunctioning firearms have no business being in the hunting field, especially if dangerous game is involved. No excuses allowed!

One statement that I hear from time to time. "This may be the only time I hunt dangerous game and did not want to buy a rifle for just one hunt". Little do they know Africa is a very dangerous and addicting drug, but at least he has a bit of experience and knows what to buy for his next hunt! Of course you could just let him use your double, (just kidding)!

 

[mark-hunter]

This may be the only time I hunt dangerous game and did not want to buy a rifle for just one hunt".

It was my reasoning in the beggining.

But, after careful consideration, I changed my mind, so I am looking to buy, 375 HH, as rifle for "purpose of one shot only". For some buffalo hunt, in forthcoming seasons, agw,

Although it may sound like it, most probably it will not be "one hunt only" rifle, because 375 is most versatile caliber in the World, and I could use it later for tougher game in my country, where all other DG calibers could be too much.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I think the duct tape is a great idea. We had a Heym representative hunt with us. I noticed that he arrived with his expensive Heyms in a metal case taped and left the same way. Did the same with the case his Leica cameras, spotting scope and binoculars were in.