Rifle rentals, how much?

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Personally i prefer every hunter brings his own weapon. I honestly just think you will shoot better with your own gun the one you practiced with

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I have a question for outfitters following this topic, or hunters with experience of hunt not only in Namiba or RSA, but other countries:

In what African countries is in fact recommended to use camp rifle, for the reason of possible problems with local import firearms regulations?

I believe, I have read somewhere on this forum that this may apply in some of central African countries, where Bongo is hunted, but I may be wrong.

I prefer hunters to bring their own.

 

[Ryan]

I'm glad some outfitters have replied. It's good to know everyones perspective.

And thank you Marius @KMG Hunting Safaris for allowing me to use your rifles last hunt, it was greatly appreciated.

I would love to bring my own rifle. Honestly I would. As a left hander I have more incentive than most to bring my own. But the charges and hassle is getting insane. With all the charges I was going to pay somewhere between $472 and $699 for extra luggage fees and permits for my latest postponed trip. I was actually prepared to pay all that and then Frankfurt dropped the ball and didn't send me their permit until a few days ago, which would have been two weeks too late. I'd prefer that money to go to gratuities and/or another trophy fee and not the airlines.

My only little condolence is Lufthansa charges everyone that badly. Besides getting me for my bow case they got a lot of unsuspecting triathletes for their bikes on my last flight out of Cape Town in 2018. Surprise!

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I'm glad some outfitters have replied. It's good to know everyones perspective.

And thank you Marius @KMG Hunting Safaris for allowing me to use your rifles last hunt, it was greatly appreciated.

I would love to bring my own rifle. Honestly I would. As a left hander I have more incentive than most to bring my own. But the charges and hassle is getting insane. With all the charges I was going to pay somewhere between $472 and $699 for extra luggage fees and permits for my latest postponed trip. I was actually prepared to pay all that and then Frankfurt dropped the ball and didn't send me their permit until a few days ago, which would have been two weeks too late. I'd prefer that money to go to gratuities and/or another trophy fee and not the airlines.

My only little condolence is Lufthansa charges everyone that badly. Besides getting me for my bow case they got a lot of unsuspecting triathletes for their bikes on my last flight out of Cape Town in 2018. Surprise!

Hi Ryan,
Its no sweat at all. The only reasoning for me saying that I prefer hunters to bring their own rifles, is simply familiarity with their own weapons.
Safaris are not cheap. Hunting with an unfamiliar weapon must be difficult mentally.
Since you were here, the 300 has gone in for some serious changes.
Fitted into an HS Precision stock, bipod, Nightforce N8 2.5-20 x 50 scope.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have been travelling by air, frequently since 1995. For the job. International flights, frequency is between 4 to 12 trips per year.
Since 1995 till now, my luggage has been lost (only) twice, and returned to me withing 48 hours, luckily both times after arrival home. Getting on job without luggage would cause much worse problems. (BTW it was by Ailitalia, and Air France)

Now, my biggest fear is:
I come to Africa, and my rifle is lost.
2nd biggest fear, I come back home from Africa, my rifle is lost.

If rifle is delivered late to home airport, within 48 hours, fine, with exception of 2 sleepless days and night.

If rifle is delivered late to Africa, within a day or two with next flight, it could be a loss of day in hunt for purpose of collecting it at airport. and we have limited number of days on the ground.

Also, days till delivery will be probably ruined, at least a bit. depending of person. (i tend to care and worry for my guns..., maybe somene wuldnt have ruined days)

So, personally I set up things like this: for PG - and using the camps rifle for Pg hunt, I am OK. (and I do not need londons best for PG hunt, something like remington 700 with leupold scope is fine for me.)

For DG, I would like my own rifle, damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead! I'll take the risk and hussle of travell.

 

[Dudders]

Hi Ryan,
Its no sweat at all. The only reasoning for me saying that I prefer hunters to bring their own rifles, is simply familiarity with their own weapons.
Safaris are not cheap. Hunting with an unfamiliar weapon must be difficult mentally.
Since you were here, the 300 has gone in for some serious changes.
Fitted into an HS Precision stock, bipod, Nightforce N8 2.5-20 x 50 scope.

What about the trigger ?

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

What about the trigger ?

New Timney trigger as well.

 

[Buckdog]

Personally i prefer every hunter brings his own weapon. I honestly just think you will shoot better with your own gun the one you practiced with

I am glad to see there are some savy outfitters on here!
I will only say this once to all you renters WTF good are your rifles/guns if you leave them at home? Why did you buy them ? why do you practice with them? If you are worried about them insure them. yes it is hassles, yes it costs, but a few hundred dollars but that is nothing in the cost of a safari or the cost of one wounded and lost animal because you are shooting a strange gun that at you are not used to, etc. sorry that's just a fools folly in my humble opinon!

 

[fourfive8]

Fair and reasonable seem to be good guidelines for any rental charge. Most of the time I've taken my own. Twice I've used the outfitter's/PH's rifles and shotguns. The only charge I've had was the cost to replace the ammo. The understanding being that if I break it I pay to fix or replace. Seems pretty simple if there is that strong understanding and agreement among all involved.

 

[Ryan]

I am glad to see there are some savy outfitters on here!
I will only say this once to all you renters WTF good are your rifles/guns if you leave them at home? Why did you buy them ? why do you practice with them? If you are worried about them insure them. yes it is hassles, yes it costs, but a few hundred dollars but that is nothing in the cost of a safari or the cost of one wounded and lost animal because you are shooting a strange gun that at you are not used to, etc. sorry that's just a fools folly in my humble opinon!

The same could be said of musical instruments. But there isn't a good guitar player out there who owns multiple personal guitars that hasn't had to pick up an unfamiliar guitar and jam on occasion. A little tuning and away they go. I own my rifles to use them whereever I can and be proficient shooting a variety of rifles. If I need to use a rental I practice with the same model before I go so I'm comfortable with the same fit and safety.

You're frustrated at the wrong people. Get angry with the airlines and governments that have made this a big issue that was minor or didn't even exist just a few years ago in most cases. We are just dealing with the situation as best we can.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

As there are many types of PHs, so are there many types of clients. I "know" of two brothers who seemed o.k., they rented firearms for elephant/hippo. Then it turned out they had recently got out of prison (violent/drugs, not white collar crime)! Another that had serious mental issues again gun rental. I know at least two out of the three would not be able to own a firearm.

If my wife, a licensed Zimbabwe PH goes to the states and wants to hunt elk, she must take a hunter safety course, quite commendable!

 

[mark-hunter]

I will only say this once to all you renters WTF good are your rifles/guns if you leave them at home?

Apart from possible import and travel hassles, consider possible damage of rifle, during air travel to and from destination, with lousy fork lift drivers at airport.

Photo below is from this forum from another forum member, but there are several cases discussed of rifles damaged during handling at airports, despite being properly packed in heavy duty aluminium cases. Do the reasearch on forum.
Now if Remington 700 is damaged, is one thing. Another matter, what if the cracked stock is on londons best (5 figure number damage)?
Answer is individual, of course.

Bottom line, travelling with rifle, makes additional risks involved. 4 risks involved are: rifle delayed, rifle lost, rifle damaged, possible hassle with papers and procedures depending from country to country and airline company to another. The first three are actually force majuere, hunters having no control of it, just pure luck. For first three, the chances of risk are doubled, because the rifle travel two way.

I have tried or owned good number of sporting rifles, I shoot good number of rounds per year at target, (some competitions as well) and I feel that I can handle average factory center fire rifle sufficiently well at normal hunting distances.
That is for plains game.

Having said that, in Africa, I had two woundings, but with successful short tracking, by great tracker so, no losses. (game recovered at less then 600 meters direct line from place of shot). So, I had following experience with African camp rifles, 2 safaris, zero losses, two woundings, zero misses, total 13 heads of game.
If additional shot was required it was for shot of mercy.

However, I do not say you are wrong, there are many advantages in using own rifles. And many reasons to bring own rifles to africa,

The question is when the risk of taking the rifle is worth it? Answer is individual.

Personally, for me, it is when hunting DG.
For buffalo I am planning to have my own 375. For PG, I am happy with camp rifle.

 

[CBH Australia]

@Tokoloshe Safaris good point. I hired in South Africa. A few days in i queried licencing etc. I was not asked to produce a firearms licence. The discussion wasnt clear both misunderstanding each others point or getting sidettacked on other rules and regs . While both speaking English i think we were each interpreting things differently. In short i dont think i needed a licence if the rifle was licenced and i was with a PH who was licenced. I assumed i needed to show evidence of a licence or permit to use firearms or maybe have a temporary permit in that country. Nah i just booked a hunt and its all good and legitimate there.

@mark-hunter
All good points. I hired for simplicity and quoted upfront cost was quite reasonable.
What i want to say is in Australia we have Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (SSAA) They publish a magazine , represent shooters providing genuine teason for target and hunting as a club so to speak. They provide members a public liability cover while using firearms.
They have been an insurance agent for many years marketing services to members and have been offering a firearms insurance that you can add on your membership just by ticking a box and paying $30 a year.
$30 a year for $25,000 insurance cover on firearms that are lost , stolen and damaged firearms including on international travel.
I wonder if NRA or others offer affordable insurance?

 

[cperso]

I prefer hunters to bring their own.

And have them loaded

 

[Foxi]

The next point is, that (UK started it) no more trophies from Africa may be imported into our countries in the next years.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

And have them loaded

Experience has shown me that they work better this way.

 

[cperso]

Experience has shown me that they work better this way.

 

[mark-hunter]

The next point is, that (UK started it) no more trophies from Africa may be imported into our countries in the next years.

I remember few years ago, when semiautomatics firearms were discussed for possible ban in next EU firearm directive, UK voice was the strongest or one of the strongest to ban.
Luckily, EU did not pass semi auto ban, and then brexit started.

So, as far as trophy import to EU is concerned, this is good thing about Brexit, Uk is out of the loop now in EU trophy import decisions. (i hope)
So, member states can impose their rules, but it will depend greatly how strong hunting culture per country is.

 

[Dudders]

The next point is, that (UK started it) no more trophies from Africa may be imported into our countries in the next years.

No Trophies imports banned in UK yet . Several European countries have France and Netherlands banned lion imports already.
So no we didn't start it

 

[Dudders]

I remember few years ago, when semiautomatics firearms were discussed for possible ban in next EU firearm directive, UK voice was the strongest or one of the strongest to ban.
Luckily, EU did not pass semi auto ban, and then brexit started.

So, as far as trophy import to EU is concerned, this is good thing about Brexit, Uk is out of the loop now in EU trophy import decisions. (i hope)
So, member states can impose their rules, but it will depend greatly how strong hunting culture per country is.

Good luck with that EU and brussels will make then own rules no matter what. Its not the uk you need to worry about its the sway the anti hunting lobbyist hold in the halls of power.