Rifle barrels that will withstand a barrel burner caliber - 6.5X68S

[Inline6]

FYI a 25 Creedmoor pushing a 131 with a BC of G7 .340 at 3050. It has over 2kftlbs at 300 yards and a velocity of 2629 and 7.4" of drop with a true 100 yard zero.

 

[bruce moulds]

inline,
it is an accurate cartridge, but when sheer accuracy is required, the x47 will exceed it.
it is actually a better long range target round than the x47 for its ability with 140 gn bullets.
the con is that it is now being promoted as the ultimate long range hunting cartridge, and one that can do anything.
the 6.5 manlicher has about the same ballistics and went obsolete for that reason.
modern shooters tend not to consider that the bullet is what does the job on the animal, and the cartridge is just a launching platform.
and the modern marketing machine has no moral compunction about the suffering of animals.
bruce.

 

[Inline6]

Bruce,
I'm definitely not disagreeing 3 what you are saying. It is up to every individual to not only know their limitations but that of their round.

If you don't know what you and your weapon are capable of and what your round is able to put down. You probably should not be hunting past 100 yards.

I guess I take it for granted people actually test what they have and know their own skill level before sighting in on a living animal.

 

[bruce moulds]

inline,
I repeat, I question that speed for that bullet in that case at pressure I would use.
also I would question the barrel length.
this is based on experience with 25/06 and 257 ackley in 24"barrel, a much bigger case.
what readily available bullet is that, and what are its terminal ballistic properties.
what twist is required .
and ultimately, what diameter is an expanded bullet.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

we have been posting while the other has been typing.
funny how you can appear to disagree when mostly you do agree.
bruce.

 

[Inline6]

Bruce,

With a 25 Creedmoor the blackjack 131 has the smallest bearing surface of just about any .25 bore bullet on the market today. It is a very sleek bullet that cuts the wind like crazy.

It has just come to market and it is showing real promise. I know my boys will be using it on whitetail come hunting season.

 

[IdaRam]

Most mortals are 1.5-2 MOA, best case.

So at 500 yards, with a perfect gun, the typical shooter can keep it +/- 7” margin of error.

But it matters little, because you’re plugging away at a computer looking for a firing solution whether it’s 64” of drop or 40” of drop, it’s not an easy calculation.

I just hunt closer.

I agree with you rookhawk, most folks are 2 MOA shooters, some not that good & some a bit better. Perfectly adequate for deer size game inside 200 yards if they can manage that on the first round under field conditions. And that is what most people should stick to unless they are willing to put in the work to become more proficient. And I think we would say the same thing. The average “hunter” has no business shooting at game at 4 or 5 hundred yards.
Regarding plugging away at a computer looking for a firing solution. If that is what someone is doing in a hunting scenario, they quite likely should not be pondering taking the shot. For those who are competent to put the FIRST round on target at distances greater than 300 yards, I would hope they have a drop and drift chart in their head and another, for refence, on the side of their stock. Something like 50 yard intervals from 300 yards and beyond with drift values for a 10 mph wind. An adequately prepared person will be able to calculate from the for wind, whether it is 8 mph 1/2 value or 17 mph full value and have practiced enough to be competent to score first round hits on steel to whatever their maximum self imposed maximum distance is in the field. If someone thinks just because they have a bunch of gadgets and an expensive rifle they are competent to shoot 500 yards at game, well I respectfully disagree. For those who who have put in the work and are capable of consistently scoring first round hits in their practice sessions, I have less push back on longer range shooting of game. Still not an advocate, just not an opponent.
I suspect there are a lot fewer people who are truly competent, than the number who think they are. Therein lies the problem with many of the long range hunters of today. In my opinion.

 

[IdaRam]

So please tell me how a 6.5 CM is a con job? It does everything a 6.5X47 does at a lower pressure. Lapua now makes 6.5 CM brass in SR primer so things are now on an even playing field.

I have been shooting a 6.5CM before most even knew whT it was. With factory ammo I was tagging 5/8" target at 350yards multiple times. It shoots, just because some don't shoot well doesn't mean it is not an accurate round.

Just a little “chain yankin” Hence the emojis. Ballistically, not a lot of daylight between the Creedmoor and the Lapua. I happen to have the Lapua, so the Creedmoor has gotta suck! Once again, tongue in cheek
Nothing wrong with the Creedmoor except that it is the first thing off just about everyones lips these days. Kind of the poster child for the couch sniper...

 

[Inline6]

Touche', I was shooting it before the hunting mags knew what it was.

 

[bruce moulds]

inline,
those bullets look like match bullets more than hunting bullets.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Members, this really is a great conversation, thank you for this great performance in regards to application of said calibers in regards to barrel burners. Ida/members what concerns me most is that the "flavor caliber" of the day is designed by a specialist shooter to increase his capacity of sport shooting, this caliber/rifle now goes commercial and every average hunter buys them and try to apply it in the same manner..I am listening to conversations of fellow hunters and remarks of how far they have shot at a game animal with these rifles is the talk of the town ..what they do not mention is how many wounded animals stays behind in the veld...Bruce and Inline , Ida pointed to 300 yards be the limit at shooting /hunting game ....the poor results I have seen/noticed every time when doing range officer duty compels me to shorten the distance to 200 meters ..
Thank you again for a great discussion ..

 

[bruce moulds]

gert,
you have to be the judge of that in an honest way.
absolutely honest.
having done your homework, you should have a good understanding of bullet diameter and weight that can deliver the require horsepower for the game intended, at the max range you will shoot.
you should also have an understanding of the best terminal performance of the bullet for the job in hand.
the big test is what is tha max range you can put 10 shots in a row fully on a 10" pie plate.
cold bore, hot bore, clean bore, dirty bore, in the conditions you will shoot in.
no shot can be discounted for any excuse whatsoever.
wind, flinch, type of rest, and many other things.
each person will have their own limits for different situations.
one of my problems is being bodily buffeted by the wind for example.
some might say 10" is too big, and they might be right.
using 10" means that shots near the edge of the plate must have sufficient horsepower for not hitting the actual intended point of impact.
7mm will do this easily on smaller game.
bigger game makes the 10" a more realistic zone to hit in terms of the size of vitals.
I am suggesting a cartridge with a +/- 3" point blank (the range you can aim dead on at) to your ability, which delivers the horsepower out to that range.
and that if you shoot in more bushy areas, and don't need a long point blank range, don't chase it.
rather, if you can handle more recoil go up a calibre.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

gert,
you have to be the judge of that in an honest way.
absolutely honest.
having done your homework, you should have a good understanding of bullet diameter and weight that can deliver the require horsepower for the game intended, at the max range you will shoot.
you should also have an understanding of the best terminal performance of the bullet for the job in hand.
the big test is what is tha max range you can put 10 shots in a row fully on a 10" pie plate.
cold bore, hot bore, clean bore, dirty bore, in the conditions you will shoot in.
no shot can be discounted for any excuse whatsoever.
wind, flinch, type of rest, and many other things.
each person will have their own limits for different situations.
one of my problems is being bodily buffeted by the wind for example.
some might say 10" is too big, and they might be right.
using 10" means that shots near the edge of the plate must have sufficient horsepower for not hitting the actual intended point of impact.
7mm will do this easily on smaller game.
bigger game makes the 10" a more realistic zone to hit in terms of the size of vitals.
I am suggesting a cartridge with a +/- 3" point blank (the range you can aim dead on at) to your ability, which delivers the horsepower out to that range.
and that if you shoot in more bushy areas, and don't need a long point blank range, don't chase it.
rather, if you can handle more recoil go up a calibre.
bruce.

Yes, Bruce I agree...my aim with shooting a caliber like a 6.5x68S is to have fun with it..shooting at dead items at long ranges..improving myself to be able to shoot out a very small grouping at 300 meters..every time, cold/hot/dirty barrel it does not matter..I want to do it every time , the only thing that I need to change is the diameter of the grouping..it needs to shrink every time..

 

[Inline6]

Bruce,

I do agree with most of what you say. I will respectfully disagree with you on the clean bore. A shooter should know the condition of their rifle. I have seen a clean bore shift as much at 3/4 of a MOA. Once fouled it returned to zero. Some take 5 rounds some 40 again a shooter should know.

Gert,

The problem with "most" , they will spend the money on a nice rifle, a nice scope, good ammo, and all the bells and whistles. Most don't put the money or effort into actually learning how to shoot. Weather it be classes, videos then applying to the field. Shooting is like anything else in life you get out of it what you put into it.

If you shoot enough and when I say that it not necessarily fair. A lot o things come into play. Reloading for example how good are your rounds? Are you using good components? Do you know how to work up a load? When talking about distance bullets neck tension comes into play. That with quality of primers, powders, brass, annealing process will affect your enemy SDs and ESs.

If you game is 300 it will not show as much.

Just more food for thought.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Bruce,

I do agree with most of what you say. I will respectfully disagree with you on the clean bore. A shooter should know the condition of their rifle. I have seen a clean bore shift as much at 3/4 of a MOA. Once fouled it returned to zero. Some take 5 rounds some 40 again a shooter should know.

Gert,

The problem with "most" , they will spend the money on a nice rifle, a nice scope, good ammo, and all the bells and whistles. Most don't put the money or effort into actually learning how to shoot. Weather it be classes, videos then applying to the field. Shooting is like anything else in life you get out of it what you put into it.

If you shoot enough and when I say that it not necessarily fair. A lot o things come into play. Reloading for example how good are your rounds? Are you using good components? Do you know how to work up a load? When talking about distance bullets neck tension comes into play. That with quality of primers, powders, brass, annealing process will affect your enemy SDs and ESs.

If you game is 300 it will not show as much.

Just more food for thought.

I agree , it is much easier to buy newest technology in rifle scopes, rifles, precision barrels..to make me shoot better than sit and try to figure out a conundrum of a scary lot of variables, it just is too much for my brain to handle , too much effort, too much time spend on nutty /grittiest of shooting ...it is like mathematics ..too difficult to comprehend ...

But, in spite of all this difficulties I will stick to my barrel burner rifle and learn/practice to shoot it accurately out to long distances...and focus on good groups at 300 meter ..keep on pushing the meters further out...

 

[Inline6]

It's not that difficult at all. You pick the system and rock on.

Take a SIG2400AB range finder for example. You set it up to your rifle. You find the target, range it, in turn the shooting solution will be displayed in the screen. It will display in MILs or MOA you choose. If you have an adjustable scope you turn the turret to what it says. You will have to account for wind and many ways to skin that cat too. In short that's an easy option for you to study.

 

[Inline6]

One took that is overlooked by many is shooting a. 22LR at 100 yards. If you can do that well, you know you are on the right track.

I think you may have misunderstood my post. You can have top of the line equipment and it will do you no good if you don't know how to shoot. I have let people shoot my rifle and it prints 2"+ @100 yards, when I have shot groups of 2.5" at 880 yards (1/2mile).

I hope I am able to convey my thoughts a little better.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Speaking to a friend of mine today who shoots Bisley/"veld shooting , he son is eleven years of age and he shoots alongside adult hunters/shooters and out perform them out to 600 yards using his 223 caliber .I think that is a great achievement. This is what my idea of a fun shooting long distance rifle needs to be..maybe a 6mm Dasher is the answer to fun shooting long distance targets..re-loading pleasure??? Maybe it is not a barrel burner ..2500 shots from such a barrel???

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I agree , it is much easier to buy newest technology in rifle scopes, rifles, precision barrels..to make me shoot better than sit and try to figure out a conundrum of a scary lot of variables, it just is too much for my brain to handle , too much effort, too much time spend on nutty /grittiest of shooting ...it is like mathematics ..too difficult to comprehend ...

But, in spite of all this difficulties I will stick to my barrel burner rifle and learn/practice to shoot it accurately out to long distances...and focus on good groups at 300 meter ..keep on pushing the meters further out...

No, no I got your drift...it is just some humor..I think that is what most average shooters think will get them to shoot on a higher level...as Gary Player , the South African golf legend said" the more you practice the luckier he gets and start winning tournaments...
What you put in is what you usually gets out...except gym work..although I put in a lot of gym time I am not starting to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger ..maybe I am doing something wrong???

 

[Inline6]

Speaking to a friend of mine today who shoots Bisley/"veld shooting , he son is eleven years of age and he shoots alongside adult hunters/shooters and out perform them out to 600 yards using his 223 caliber .I think that is a great achievement. This is what my idea of a fun shooting long distance rifle needs to be..maybe a 6mm Dasher is the answer to fun shooting long distance targets..re-loading pleasure??? Maybe it is not a barrel burner ..2500 shots from such a barrel???

Now if I we play that game... might I suggest the 6BRA. A lot less hassle than the Dasher (it still has to be fire formed but it is way easier. The 6BRA holds some nice records.