Remington 700 in 458 Lott

[Nickcusato]

I am looking at a Remington 700 chambered in 458 Lott. Not sure of what its worth. I am a CZ, Model 70, Mauser type action fan. Any thoughts on Remington action & dangerous game? Advice on Remington 700 in larger cal. as I have stayed away from them. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

A Remington 700 is great for target shooting, woodchucks at 400 yards, deer hunting and so on. It will function until it does not. That's not good for animals intent on killing you.

Since you live in the USA and can choose most any rifle, if it were me, I'd bet my life on CRF in a M70, CZ, or Mauser.

I also like the 3-position safety on the Model 70. On safe it locks the striker from firing. It cannot fire, period. That is very, very safe when on the trail following your tracker and PH with other trackers following you.

 

[Nickcusato]

A Remington 700 is great for target shooting, woodchucks at 400 yards, deer hunting and so on. It will function until it does not. That's not good for animals intent on killing you.

Since you live in the USA and can choose most any rifle, if it were me, I'd bet my life on CRF in a M70, CZ, or Mauser.

I also like the 3-position safety on the Model 70. On safe it locks the striker from firing. It cannot fire, period. That is very, very safe when on the trail following your tracker and PH with other trackers following you.

I am of the same opinion. I rely on my CZ 550 in 375 H&H. It is just reliable. This Remington 700 looked like a really good deal for a 458 but I am going to pass. Model 70, CZ & Mauser actions are it for me too. Thanks for the input.

 

[JPmbogo]

Same old argument. Matter of personal choice. I built a 458 Lott on a post-64 Mod. 70 magnum action, Lilja bbl, and a supergrade factory stock (more or less dropped right in, with a personal touch here and there). I have never, repeat, never had a problem with feeding and far smoother than most of my "controlled feed" rifles.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Awesome, another M700 bashing thread, not near enough of them on here. Maybe we can get the experts to chime in on the trigger also! To my knowledge Remington never chambered the Lott in a rifle factory.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Not sure how so many soldiers survive using “unreliable“ push feed rifles.

Safe shooting.

 

[BeeMaa]

I have to agree with @Bullthrower338, Remington never chambered the M700 in 458LOTT unless it was a custom order. Even then I don't believe the action was long enough. Share a picture if you have one.

As for the great PF/CRF debate...IMO it's mostly crap. More often than not the problem lies with the one pulling the trigger not the rifle. Most of the "failures of PF actions" can be traced back to short stroking the bolt. Stuck cartridges/failure to extract due to lack of cleaning or proper maintenance. The failure list is long and I'm sure the PF haters will be along shortly to let every Army, Navy and Marine sniper since Vietnam know how wrong they are by using a PF action. I'm still looking for a person who ACTUALLY experienced a failure of some kind that can not be traced back to their own shortcomings.

The rifle can be made reliable (in most cases) regardless of the action type by a skilled gunsmith. Some are good right out of the box, some need tweaking and others major work.

Now that the rifle is good, it's time to get the shooter in shape as well. Dry fire practice, range time, clean the rifle, dry fire some more, dry fire again, range time, clean the rifle, dry fire... You get the point.

 

[Nickcusato]

I have to agree with @Bullthrower338, Remington never chambered the M700 in 458LOTT unless it was a custom order. Even then I don't believe the action was long enough. Share a picture if you have one.

As for the great PF/CRF debate...IMO it's mostly crap. More often than not the problem lies with the one pulling the trigger not the rifle. Most of the "failures of PF actions" can be traced back to short stroking the bolt. Stuck cartridges/failure to extract due to lack of cleaning or proper maintenance. The failure list is long and I'm sure the PF haters will be along shortly to let every Army, Navy and Marine sniper since Vietnam know how wrong they are by using a PF action. I'm still looking for a person who ACTUALLY experienced a failure of some kind that can not be traced back to their own shortcomings.

The rifle can be made reliable (in most cases) regardless of the action type by a skilled gunsmith. Some are good right out of the box, some need tweaking and others major work.

Now that the rifle is good, it's time to get the shooter in shape as well. Dry fire practice, range time, clean the rifle, dry fire some more, dry fire again, range time, clean the rifle, dry fire... You get the point.

Good points. I don’t own any Remington rifles, this would be a first for me. They get many bad reviews. It’s a build, not factory.

 

[Joker12]

The biggest problem with the Remington 700 isn't that its push feed its that the extractor has a history of separating from the bolt leaving you with a spent case in the chamber. In a rifle intended for something that can kill you its just a poor choice.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I have read many times that if a Remington 700 action is good enough for US Army and Marine Corps snipers, it is good enough as a dangerous game rifle. Everyone is welcome to their opinion. In most cases, those opinions are valid.

US Defense Systems, i.e. equipment is designed and tested to meet to a set of “Functional Requirements". This includes small arms.

Concerning small arms requirements:

Sniper rifles must be capable of specific accuracy at specific distances.
A high rate of sustained fire is not part of their requirements.

One might ask why? I was not a sniper in the Marines but I served a number of them. To a man, none would discuss any kills. They would however discuss tactics. An important rule for them was; “The enemy cannot locate them from hearing one shot. Shoot twice and they will know your location.” That would bring hell on earth down on their position. Additionally, if a two-man sniper team gets into a fire fight they will be outgunned. Those situations would be counterproductive.

Requirements for an infantry rifle include less stringent accuracy but very high reliability for tens of thousands of rounds. Those “evaluations” include continued bursts of high rates of timed sustained fire. Just look up exploded parts diagrams for 1903A3 Springfield, M1 Garand and M-14, M-16, AK-47 and so one. You will see that they do not all have controlled round feed but they do have big and strong extractors.

On the Marine Corps Rifle Team I fire thousands of rounds in rapid fire with an M-14. I also fired quite a few rounds in the same at Division-level matches and practice with the M-16A2. An M-14 bolt roller (guide roller) broke on me once but those rifles never failed to chamber rounds and extract brass. The M-16 never failed to extract brass but with a bad magazine, weak magazine spring, or improperly seated magazine, the bolt could ride over the rim and subsequently smash into the body of the body of the round, resulting in a jam. While relatively common with an M-16, I never encountered this, or even heard of this for an M-14.

At NRA matches there were bolt action “Match Rifles” shot by some civilians (military personnel had to shoot Service Rifles). I would watch in amazement how quickly and smoothly the competitors would operate their bolts during rapid fire. Some would even have roller knobs on their bolts! Some of those guns were of course Remington 700’s and 40X’s. I wonder how many of them had Sako or M-16 extractors? I imagine that an experienced competitor using a Remington with a standard clip extractor would periodically replace that tiny thing. The bottom line is that during matches there are alibis for equipment failures. Angry cape buffalos do not know what an alibi is.

There is nothing wrong with a Model 700. They are great rifles! I will never sell my M700 Classic in .30-06. For me, it has taken quite a few whitetail deer and a few woodchucks. I also have 40X long range target rifles. I will however choose a CFR or better yet, a double rifle for dangerous game.

To paraphrase Skeeter Skelton’s responses to Jeff Cooper concerning their long ago ongoing debate of revolver vs. automatic handguns, “I’ll take a controlled round feed rifle, you can take your chances!”

 

[Nickcusato]

The biggest problem with the Remington 700 isn't that its push feed its that the extractor has a history of separating from the bolt leaving you with a spent case in the chamber. In a rifle intended for something that can kill you its just a poor choice.

That’s what my thoughts were but having never owned a 700 anything I wanted opinions before I passed on what looked like a great deal. Thanks for the input. I’m going to stick with my CZ, and model 70’s for big bore.

 

[RETD16]

As stated above, the weakest part of the Remington Model 700s action is its extractor. The extractor design is not great, but can be made much better by having a Sako extractor installed. Accuracy from my Model 700s is fantastic. Typically better than Winchesters or Brownings that I’ve owned.

 

[IvW]

I am looking at a Remington 700 chambered in 458 Lott. Not sure of what its worth. I am a CZ, Model 70, Mauser type action fan. Any thoughts on Remington action & dangerous game? Advice on Remington 700 in larger cal. as I have stayed away from them. Any input is appreciated.

Stay away far away is what I would do......

 

[SFRanger7GP]

All firearms (or anything made by humans for that matter) have a lemon in their gene pool if you look hard enough. I would be much more concerned with who did the custom work than it being a push feed rifle. In most cases, when I have seen an issue with a firearm, it was operator headspace or somebody with a Dremel tool made it "combat/safari ready".

Regardless of brand, action, or expert advice, you must have confidence (via training) in your tools.

Safe shooting

 

[IvW]

All firearms (or anything made by humans for that matter) have a lemon in their gene pool if you look hard enough. I would be much more concerned with who did the custom work than it being a push feed rifle. In most cases, when I have seen an issue with a firearm, it was operator headspace or somebody with a Dremel tool made it "combat/safari ready".

Regardless of brand, action, or expert advice, you must have confidence (via training) in your tools.

Safe shooting

Some are just never destined to be DG rifles......

 

[JPmbogo]

Regarding the initial question that started this thread, are you actually going to use the rifle to hunt for something that might take umbrage at being shot at and has the wherewithal to do something about it, or is this just a "toy shooter"? Might make a difference in your decision to buy or not.

 

[Nickcusato]

Regarding the initial question that started this thread, are you actually going to use the rifle to hunt for something that might take umbrage at being shot at and has the wherewithal to do something about it, or is this just a "toy shooter"? Might make a difference in your decision to buy or not.

I am going to get a 416 or 458 for Buffalo. I have only used my CZ in 375 H&H thus far & now have my oldest son going with me in June. He will use my CZ.

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[lockingblock]

Plunger extractors struggle to eject live rounds when cycled full speed. They generally do fine with empty cases.

So, a dud will likely fail to eject if you cycle the bolt quickly.


Beyond that, the round actions are accurate and reliable.


They are sub optimal in heavy calibers.

 

[Inline6]

I have to agree with @Bullthrower338, Remington never chambered the M700 in 458LOTT unless it was a custom order. Even then I don't believe the action was long enough. Share a picture if you have one.

As for the great PF/CRF debate...IMO it's mostly crap. More often than not the problem lies with the one pulling the trigger not the rifle. Most of the "failures of PF actions" can be traced back to short stroking the bolt. Stuck cartridges/failure to extract due to lack of cleaning or proper maintenance. The failure list is long and I'm sure the PF haters will be along shortly to let every Army, Navy and Marine sniper since Vietnam know how wrong they are by using a PF action. I'm still looking for a person who ACTUALLY experienced a failure of some kind that can not be traced back to their own shortcomings.

The rifle can be made reliable (in most cases) regardless of the action type by a skilled gunsmith. Some are good right out of the box, some need tweaking and others major work.

Now that the rifle is good, it's time to get the shooter in shape as well. Dry fire practice, range time, clean the rifle, dry fire some more, dry fire again, range time, clean the rifle, dry fire... You get the point.

Without getting into a big debate... personally have seen more Remington fail in the field than any other action combined. No we are not talking about user error or triggers. Everyone has an opinion and I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. What I will say is test whatever you plan on taking because your life might depend on it along with other in your hunting party. Honestly don't care who's name is on it. At the end of the day man built it therefore it can fail. It must be tested, that's just my opinion and it's only worth what you pay for it.