Rechambering of Rifle Actions?

[sestoppelman]

I can't post the links but check the Mauser forums for gunsmiths.

That's an idea, thanks!

 

[Rob404]

Sounds great! Same cartridge lengths, widths and rim diameters. That’s also a very reasonable cost to do that.

Great local gunsmith here in the Twin Cities Jim Kobe the problem is everybody knows it so it's about a 6month wait for work like that but with 6 inchs of snow last night and more to come I don't mind the wait

 

[CoElkHunter]

Great local gunsmith here in the Twin Cities Jim Kobe the problem is everybody knows it so it's about a 6month wait for work like that but with 6 inchs of snow last night and more to come I don't mind the wait

Only six inches of snow? We got 8 plus! So get out on those icy roads and be somebody! Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[nksmfamjp]

I just had this rechambering done. 4 things need considered.

Rechambering simply like 30’06 to 30’06 AI can be pretty cheap and give you a pretty good improvement.

30’06 to 300 WM adds changing the bolt face and possibly magazine or feedwork.

30’06 to 300 RUM probably cannot be done due to action length.

30’06 to 270 is best done as a rebarrel due to bore changing.

Talk to a good gunsmith. Don’t forget to label the barrel after. Dennis Olson did my 458WM to 458 Lott.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I just had this rechambering done. 4 things need considered.

Rechambering simply like 30’06 to 30’06 AI can be pretty cheap and give you a pretty good improvement.

30’06 to 300 WM adds changing the bolt face and possibly magazine or feedwork.

30’06 to 300 RUM probably cannot be done due to action length.

30’06 to 270 is best done as a rebarrel due to bore changing.

Talk to a good gunsmith. Don’t forget to label the barrel after. Dennis Olson did my 458WM to 458 Lott.

The Lott is very slightly longer than the WM, so I guess the WM action length isn’t really an issue? I’ve read here and elsewhere of many of these conversions.

 

[Rob404]

Only six inches of snow? We got 8 plus! So get out on those icy roads and be somebody! Ha! Ha! Ha!

We have more on the way Friday and it continues till April most years

 

[CoElkHunter]

We have more on the way Friday and it continues till April most years

We have more too on the way Friday. My in laws in Northern Colorado got 18 inches! We’re supposed to go up there Saturday. We’ll see?

 

[CBH Australia]

An Aussie perspective
Supply, chamber and fit barrel no sights or any extras $900 will get me a better barrel than factory.
Let’s say it’s a Howa I can buy a Howa for $900 maybe less pending model.
A Tikka, I just wait for a good secondhand one come up.
A big bore CZ550, secondhand on usedguns.com.au no barrel band.
If I wanted to AI something I own. $150 for the gunsmith to remove, chamber and refit barrel. I almost took 458wm out to a Lott

AI dies . Here’s the kicker. Nearly $300 as opposed to the $85 for standard dies I can source easily.

The AI is an advantage if you need it or want it. It can be done on various cartridge chambering but unless you want it just because then there may be no real world advantage as a hunter.

I might still want one one day but it also requires fire forming loads from standard cases blow out the case neck area to load an AI cartridge. I’ve read firing a standard load in the AI chamber Reduces the loads velocity by approx the same gain you would get on an AI load. So no point chambering your favourite hunting rifle in AI and reverting to factory loads it will run slower. It works in a pinch but gloss the improved advantage if you do it.

 

[nksmfamjp]

The Lott is very slightly longer than the WM, so I guess the WM action length isn’t really an issue? I’ve read here and elsewhere of many of these conversions.

0.3” isn’t that slight....need to adjust bolt stop, I think.

 

[CBH Australia]

0.3” isn’t that slight....need to adjust bolt stop, I think.

I’d say what they are referring too is that actions capable of taking Magnum cartridges are long enough to accomodate the Lott.
A Brno 602, a CZ550 or something that takes a .375H&H would accept it.
I’ve read some Mauser’s can be opened up for a custom job.
Zastava make an affordable Magnum rifle too, possibly a good base to do a budget custom. If you can find one in the chambering you want then maybe just a Boyd’s laminated stock and see how you like it.
I owned a Zastava in .308. I didn’t like the synthetic stock though. I believe they asolid and functional but I never bought another.
The Remington 798 (Discontinued) is a Zastava action smoothed and assembled by Remington.

 

[CoElkHunter]

0.3” isn’t that slight....need to adjust bolt stop, I think.

Your right! My under calculation until I looked at the cartridge schematic in my Hornady manual. Thanks!

 

[CoElkHunter]

An Aussie perspective
Supply, chamber and fit barrel no sights or any extras $900 will get me a better barrel than factory.
Let’s say it’s a Howa I can buy a Howa for $900 maybe less pending model.
A Tikka, I just wait for a good secondhand one come up.
A big bore CZ550, secondhand on usedguns.com.au no barrel band.
If I wanted to AI something I own. $150 for the gunsmith to remove, chamber and refit barrel. I almost took 458wm out to a Lott

AI dies . Here’s the kicker. Nearly $300 as opposed to the $85 for standard dies I can source easily.

The AI is an advantage if you need it or want it. It can be done on various cartridge chambering but unless you want it just because then there may be no real world advantage as a hunter.

I might still want one one day but it also requires fire forming loads from standard cases blow out the case neck area to load an AI cartridge. I’ve read firing a standard load in the AI chamber Reduces the loads velocity by approx the same gain you would get on an AI load. So no point chambering your favourite hunting rifle in AI and reverting to factory loads it will run slower. It works in a pinch but gloss the improved advantage if you do it.

I thought finding and buying the dies would be the kick in the teeth with an AI cartridge! Maybe so? AND, how did/do all the “wildcat” cartridge designers find dies for their cartridges? Somebody has/had to make them?I’m looking through my 2016 Hornady reloading manual, and see many obscure cartridges both present and past which someone has had to reload, since nobody makes factory ammo for them?

 

[CoElkHunter]

An Aussie perspective
Supply, chamber and fit barrel no sights or any extras $900 will get me a better barrel than factory.
Let’s say it’s a Howa I can buy a Howa for $900 maybe less pending model.
A Tikka, I just wait for a good secondhand one come up.
A big bore CZ550, secondhand on usedguns.com.au no barrel band.
If I wanted to AI something I own. $150 for the gunsmith to remove, chamber and refit barrel. I almost took 458wm out to a Lott

AI dies . Here’s the kicker. Nearly $300 as opposed to the $85 for standard dies I can source easily.

The AI is an advantage if you need it or want it. It can be done on various cartridge chambering but unless you want it just because then there may be no real world advantage as a hunter.

I might still want one one day but it also requires fire forming loads from standard cases blow out the case neck area to load an AI cartridge. I’ve read firing a standard load in the AI chamber Reduces the loads velocity by approx the same gain you would get on an AI load. So no point chambering your favourite hunting rifle in AI and reverting to factory loads it will run slower. It works in a pinch but gloss the improved advantage if you do it.

Example: As I’ve mentioned somewhere here before, my father in law has a 6mm Ackley Improved. It’s a little hotter than a 6mm Remington. Fantastic! I can only imagine what he paid for the rifle and maybe the reloading dies? As far as I know, he’s never reloaded for it. I have a better idea? Just buy a factory .25-06 instead of the 6mm AI and be done with it! No, but that would be to easy with no rifle drama for him!

 

[JimP]

RCBS used to machine dies to your specifications if you wanted a true wildcat, they may still offer that option. Other than that there are not too many combinations that haven't been tried at one time or another. The AI improvement on cartridges is a very common one so the dies shouldn't cost too much if they need to be machined, all that has to happen is for the sizing die shoulder needs to be bumped a little bit.

 

[CBH Australia]

My guess is Widcatters knew there stuff and had access to people to make dies. Assuming they maybe gunsmiths or the like they may have made them. They may have had to make a reamer too.
In some cases maybe they took two die set to get the larger mandrel or someting.
I saw and tested one rifle that was a .270 barrel and the bloke machined a bush to put in the chambet that bridged the gap between the correct length of a .243case and he would fire form .243 and use .270 neck and seat dies to reload.i declined buying it but i liked the cartridge concept. A short action .270
I own a 7mm08 i condidered having it AI chambered and considered the .22-250 AI.
$300 for a die set were the setback for no gain for my use. Oneday i might
We are a funny bunch us shooters. We do it because they make it. Its an interest.
In Australia gunsmiths probably trained as machinists or tool makers. Maybe some were military armourers. Maybe there are some trained as gunsmiths.

 

[CoElkHunter]

My guess is Widcatters knew there stuff and had access to people to make dies. Assuming they maybe gunsmiths or the like they may have made them. They may have had to make a reamer too.
In some cases maybe they took two die set to get the larger mandrel or someting.
I saw and tested one rifle that was a .270 barrel and the bloke machined a bush to put in the chambet that bridged the gap between the correct length of a .243case and he would fire form .243 and use .270 neck and seat dies to reload.i declined buying it but i liked the cartridge concept. A short action .270
I own a 7mm08 i condidered having it AI chambered and considered the .22-250 AI.
$300 for a die set were the setback for no gain for my use. Oneday i might
We are a funny bunch us shooters. We do it because they make it. Its an interest.
In Australia gunsmiths probably trained as machinists or tool makers. Maybe some were military armourers. Maybe there are some trained as gunsmiths.

Very good explanation! I think the AI cartridge concept by P.O. Ackley IS brilliant! But, he was a gunsmith/machinist who I’m sure made/modified his own dies for next to nothing in costs? Same with his rifle chambers?

 

[JimP]

With a lot of wildcats or even the AI versions all the reloader will do is to size the neck, where a standard die set for the parent cartridge will work.

After doing a quick search I found the Redding will build you a custom set of dies, all you need to do is to send them 3 fired cases for them to get the measurements off of.

https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/38-custom-made-dies

 

[CoElkHunter]

With a lot of wildcats or even the AI versions all the reloader will do is to size the neck, where a standard die set for the parent cartridge will work.

After doing a quick search I found the Redding will build you a custom set of dies, all you need to do is to send them 3 fired cases for them to get the measurements off of.

https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/38-custom-made-dies

Interesting! Obviously, one would have to have the wildcatted rifle (chamber) first to be able to fire and produce the cases and submit them to Redding. I wonder how a gunsmith makes the wildcatted chamber without a fired cartridge for a reference? I guess an mechanical engineering type schematic?)? Wow! Silly me. I guess that’s how all rifle cartridges and chambers were originally developed! Got carried away!

 

[JimP]

If you really look at all the different cartridges, wildcats, improved versions, and whatever else you will find that the vast majority of rounds have already been tried one way or another. As was mentioned above a lot of rounds came about by necking down or up a case. If you needed the shoulder moved back you could use two or three other sizing dies to get the case to where you wanted. Necking up a cartridge is easy, necking down is where the problems come in. I have a couple of rounds that started out as wildcats and are still wildcats that making a actual case for takes some time to get just right, and that is with specialty dies to do most of the work.

Reaming a chamber can be quite easy. Just get a drill bit and sharpen the cutting edge to the angle that you want and go for it. Yes it is lot easier to purchase a actual reamer that does most of the work for you but what is a reamer anyway besides a drill bit?

I remember way back in metal shop when we were cutting our own drill and tool bits for a project that we wanted to build. The teacher wouldn't let us just buy one but had us actually do the work to learn just how to make the tools. It has helped me a lot in my life living in a rural type area where you couldn't just go buy what you wanted but had to figure out something else. Not to mention being able to save a lot of money by fabricating what I needed to do a job.

 

[CBH Australia]

I’m getting in beyond my depth here but there may be various ways.
Simply draw a design (Concept) and ask to have a reamer made by the people who make them. Manson is a name that’s comes to mind.
Perhaps in some cases you could select a barrel with a given bore and use a reamer of a parent case so as you are starting with a case that’s is available and has potential to create your new design.
Like my example above a gun nut who had access to a small CBC lathe and someone to demonstrate he made a bush to shorten the chamber of a .270winchester chambered barrel and fireformed .243 loads in it. You would need to know your powders and do your homework.
With my limited knowledge I would not attempt that. I would not even suggest someone tries it. Bushing the chamber is not a practice anyone would advocate.
But with that example I think maybe you could get a .270 bore barrel blank and use a reamer with a smaller neck dia perhaps? Providing that you could keep it centred. So like a .243, 6.5 cm or .260 Rem reamer into the .270 bore barrel may make that wildcat.
Forget it buy a 7mm-08 that’s what I did.
There was an article in sporting shooter of an Aussie who made a .358 on a short action. Alan Swan done the work. He ordered a reamer to his design, asked Bertram cases to custom make brass with his designated chambering be it a .358 with his last name as the designation and head stamp.
The cases were a standard head size of formed from a generic blank case they make something else of.
I believe readers are ground and need to be sharp, also these can be resharpened . I guess in the hands of a smart machinist they can be ground to change the shoulder angle.
Nathan Foster runs the terminal ballistics research website. Look up his 7mm practical page
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Blog/x_post/the-third-7mm-practical.html

I haven’t read this in a while but I think it talks about the process.

Another note a gunsmith in my home town when I was a kid was Arthur Langford of Broken Hill he owned Myra’s sports store.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2011/01/squeeze-bore.html
Google some references
I know he designed a .17mini mite and a Tini mite by downsizing the necks of .22rf and .22mag. Making his own dies etc. they were the fasted rimfires recorded at the time and a pre cursor to the .17Mach1 and .17HMR
He also done some centrefire wildcats. All this before the internet and these modern wildcats . Evidently There was a .300 Myra using a .222 case. Sound familiar?
He had a nice ammunition factory and a small outlet that he sold in the early 90s