Re-introducing Extinct Species

[steve white]

nothing has ever been brought back to my knowledge--are we talking anything factual?

 

[steve white]

Actually, the Earth’s human population got down to 8 a little over 4k years ago. The population began to grow from the original 2 around 6k years ago . And Evolution is a farce

sounds like Noah's flood...

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

sounds like Noah's flood...

Precisely

 

[1911Fan]

Precisely

Which brings to mind the opposite of de-extinction: which animals should Noah have thrown overboard? I'd say geese!

 

[curtism1234]

There is certainly evidence of a large regional flood in the Black Sea area. However, the flood does pre-date writing. Oral history could certainly keep the story going for several thousand years until writing was learned. There is something much larger at play:

The "flood myth" occurs in many many cultures around the world with the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Bible being the most popular. In the end, it is all the same - mythology. Some parts historically true with a whole lot made up to explain unknown science

 

[curtism1234]

Which brings to mind the opposite of de-extinction: which animals should Noah have thrown overboard? I'd say geese!

Damn things shitting all over the place. My vote is mosquitos though

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

There is certainly evidence of a large regional flood in the Black Sea area. However, the flood does pre-date writing. Oral history could certainly keep the story going for several thousand years until writing was learned. There is something much larger at play:

The "flood myth" occurs in many many cultures around the world with the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Bible being the most popular. In the end, it is all the same - mythology. Some parts historically true with a whole lot made up to explain unknown science

There has been a concerted effort on behalf of the majority of the scientific community for the past 200+ years to disprove God and trying to disprove and dismiss the flood is just more of it.

Why is it that stories of the flood are so widespread? It’s because everyone who has lived since the flood is descended from it’s handful of survivors.

 

[curtism1234]

There has been a concerted effort on behalf of the majority of the scientific community for the past 200+ years to disprove God and trying to disprove and dismiss the flood is just more of it.

Why is it that stories of the flood are so widespread? It’s because everyone who has lived since the flood is descended from it’s handful of survivors.

Religion is nothing new - a couple million years old. Early hominids are hardwired very similar. As each species got a little more intelligent and social they assigned meaning for climate and norms. South Americans throwing people in cenotes so it rains is no different than Abraham attempting to sacrifice his son during that same time period.

The meaning of life is human nature; it is what separates us from our great ape relatives. People are free to worship how they want (normally born into); Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc - there are thousands of religions (maybe tens of thousands). It all is in search of the same 3 things: food/water, social law / order, and dealing with our own mortality.

Personally I think Aeithism is comforting. Children getting ass cancer is just nature instead of worshiping a higher power that gave it to them. Year 2100 CE is probably going to mean as much to me as 1900 did. Live your life how you want but conform to social norms engrained in us since herd animals - basically don't be a dick

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Religion is nothing new - a couple million years old. Early hominids are hardwired very similar. As each species got a little more intelligent and social they assigned meaning for climate and norms. South Americans throwing people in cenotes so it rains is no different than Abraham attempting to sacrifice his son during that same time period.

The meaning of life is human nature; it is what separates us from our great ape relatives. People are free to worship how they want (normally born into); Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc - there are thousands of religions (maybe tens of thousands). It all is in search of the same 3 things: food/water, social law / order, and dealing with our own mortality.

Personally I think Aeithism is comforting. Children getting ass cancer is just nature instead of worshiping a higher power that gave it to them. Year 2100 CE is probably going to mean as much to me as 1900 did. Live your life how you want but conform to social norms engrained in us since herd animals - basically don't be a dick

“Religion” has indeed been with us since the beginning. To further that thought I would just say that everyone is born with a void in their heart that can only be filled with one thing. Most fill it with the wrong thing. Abraham and Isaac’s story is a touch more complicated than that.

The meaning of life is a great deal more than that. Also the millions of years issue and the “we come descended from monkeys” (to quote one of my favorite movies) arguments are just more arguments concocted by “scientists” to disprove God.

The reason Atheism is comforting to so many is because if God doesn’t exist then they don’t have to answer for anything they’ve done.

A common misunderstanding or view is that God “gives” cancer or whatever to people. It just isn’t so. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden they started something that has to run it’s course. Because they sinned death entered into the world. Death is a byproduct of sin. We live in a fallen world and sickness and death is just part of living.

 

[geoff rath]

With the amount of terrain that is needed for the mone,, ehh aninals to prosper on. Something has to go if they are to profeed with it, and most of areas suitable are in far east, Siberia and similar. Where there is no one reaiding on huge areas. One can ask one self, why is the point of rewilding developed land masses in Europe with little remaining wilderness areas to begin with ?

"Something has to go" ?? Mebbe some (a lot) of humankind ??

 

[geoff rath]

Which brings to mind the opposite of de-extinction: which animals should Noah have thrown overboard? I'd say geese!

Cockroaches ??

 

[PerH]

"Something has to go" ?? Mebbe some (a lot) of humankind ??

Or a change of " religion" and stop beliving into the superstitious of predatora and perhaps.

 

[steve white]

There is certainly evidence of a large regional flood in the Black Sea area. However, the flood does pre-date writing. Oral history could certainly keep the story going for several thousand years until writing was learned. There is something much larger at play:

The "flood myth" occurs in many many cultures around the world with the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Bible being the most popular. In the end, it is all the same - mythology. Some parts historically true with a whole lot made up to explain unknown science

Repeated similar anthologies in widely differing parts of the entire globe point to a common event, not a myth--the places share nothing of common culture.

 

[steve white]

Religion is nothing new - a couple million years old. Early hominids are hardwired very similar. As each species got a little more intelligent and social they assigned meaning for climate and norms. South Americans throwing people in cenotes so it rains is no different than Abraham attempting to sacrifice his son during that same time period.

The meaning of life is human nature; it is what separates us from our great ape relatives. People are free to worship how they want (normally born into); Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc - there are thousands of religions (maybe tens of thousands). It all is in search of the same 3 things: food/water, social law / order, and dealing with our own mortality.

Personally I think Aeithism is comforting. Children getting ass cancer is just nature instead of worshiping a higher power that gave it to them. Year 2100 CE is probably going to mean as much to me as 1900 did. Live your life how you want but conform to social norms engrained in us since herd animals - basically don't be a dick

Atheists hold no high moral ground--they have killed more civilians in peacetime than any movement in history via communism. It is insulting to listen to uninvestigated, unthoughtout dismissal of faith. We comment on politics enough on this forum--don't try to divide by religion, thank you very much.

 

[RTG]

Which brings to mind the opposite of de-extinction: which animals should Noah have thrown overboard? I'd say geese!

Politicians. Polosi/McConnell are a different species than anyone in my family tree. I believe the correct Genus is (Pongo liarus fraudus americanus)

 

[geoff rath]

Atheists hold no high moral ground--they have killed more civilians in peacetime than any movement in history via communism. It is insulting to listen to uninvestigated, unthoughtout dismissal of faith. We comment on politics enough on this forum--don't try to divide by religion, thank you very much.

Note: the Nazi/SS belt buckle on their uniforms allegedly bore the words" Gott mt Uns" God is with us

 

[Hunt anything]

Which brings to mind the opposite of de-extinction: which animals should Noah have thrown overboard? I'd say geese!

Liberals

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

I listened to a several hour podcast on this topic with world experts and the gist to my understanding is the following:

When an animal's last living member goes extinct, its gone for good, forever, irrevocably. Future technology will be unlikely to circumvent that fact for hundreds of years if ever.

What is really happening when someone claims they are bringing a species back to life:

By DNA sequencing extinct DNA fragments of DNA can be obtained. With enough of these fragments from various specimens, you may have a few percent of the original genome. With enough research between the extinct species and a living cousin where a perfect DNA sequence exists, comparisons and assumptions can be made about what each gene actually does. Science has figured this out with elephants and mammoths for example, so we know which genes effect molar development, ivory mass and curvature, fatty hump at the shoulders, hair growth, and other cold weather adaptations.

With that knowledge known, using CRISPR technology to modify genes you can maniuplate a fertilized elephant egg to give a modern elephant "mammoth like traits" that would be amusing to see in a menagerie. Amusing, but of very little scientific value because you just made a mutant African Elephant with goofy posture, too much hair, curly ivory, and a fatty hump on its shoulders.

When an animal dies the DNA instantly begins decomposition so for example if you took samples from your dead "man's best friend" 40 minutes after death it would be unlikely that sample would be flawless enough to create a clone of Fido. Now reconcile that with a frozen wooly mammoth that has been dead for 15,000 years where maybe 2-3% of DNA is intact and you understand why we can't make a wooly mammoth and have it gestate inside an elephant.

Same with chickens. We know how to make a chicken with a dinosaur like tail and actual teeth because they have these traits when developing inside the egg until a gene activates to fuse the teeth into a beak and shorten the tail into a suitable bird-like tail. Making a chicken that looks like a velociraptor isn't bringing the velociraptor back from the grave...it's still extinct. You just made an ugly chicken.

It is possible to clone mammals from old dna. This was recently demonstrated by the cloning of a black footed ferret who had died 30 years ago. So in theory, it’s within the realm of possibility to clone an extinct mammal.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

The issue, as you stated, is getting DNA. The DNA of the ferret that was cloned was carefully stored under laboratory conditions. While DNA from many frozen animals has been recovered, it has always been damaged to some extent from the imperfect conditions of the permafrost in which it was preserved. Obviously non avian dinosaur DNA is long gone at this point.

Birds also have a number of issues when it comes to cloning. However I have recently read about research being done in regards to basically cloning the gonads of another bird into chickens during fetal development which causes the chickens to lay eggs that contain the DNA of and hatch into the species being cloned.

The real issue with any of this is genetic bottle neck. Let’s say you do find a 100% clean sample of mammoth dna and clone it. Every mammoth you produce will be genetically identical (not to mention the same sex as the original animal). Even if you could make them male and female, there would be no genetic diversity in your herd. It would be inbreeding on steroids with all the issues that would bring about. The only reason the cloned ferret is exciting is that now it can be bred into the population of captive bred ferrets and increase their genetic diversity (since they are not descendants of the cloned animal).

 

[rookhawk]

The real issue with any of this is genetic bottle neck. Let’s say you do find a 100% clean sample of mammoth dna and clone it. Every mammoth you produce will be genetically identical (not to mention the same sex as the original animal). Even if you could make them male and female, there would be no genetic diversity in your herd. It would be inbreeding on steroids with all the issues that would bring about.

If I remember correctly from the podcast spouting off Mammoth DNA facts, I think they have a composite genome in total across all samples of some paltry sum, 8-11%. Just enough fragments and just enough knowledge of the complete elephant genome today to know how to do CRISPR on an elephant egg to make it a hairy, humpy elephant.

I'm sure that cloned blackfooted ferret was based upon a perfect sample extracted under sterile conditions versus a recovery of a decaying carcass. The contamination after a few hours post mortem is problematic because the sample then incorporates DNA of fungal, plant, and bacterial elements along with potential insect.

The dream of extinct species walking the earth is one that I've thought would be marvelous ever since Michael Crichton's book came out. Unfortunately, we don't even have the tech to bring back the 6-7 modern-era extinct North American Elk species, much less to bring back a 6000-10000 year old dead mammoth.

This guy does a pretty good job of explaining what is really taking place when someone talks about bringing back an extinct species in his "Dino-Chicken" Presentation.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

How about cloning the American Chestnut Tree with the genes necessary to be resistant to blight. These trees could be used to feed mammoths in the wild.

I read somewhere that one of the plans for these was to hybridize the American Chestnut (AC) with the Chinese Chestnut (CC) which does have resistance to the blight then breed those hybrids back with AC until you had a variety that was genetically close to 100% AC but retained the genes for blight resistance.

Seemed sound to me. Hybridization in plants is pretty well understood. The other idea was to create GMO American Chestnut with the blight gene.