Question on .375 H&H rifle

[Bas]

Yeah I will most likely have it bedded before I shoot it

Also consider pillars while bedding.

 

[Bas]

How would I know if it needs it?
I was going to do it to protec the stock

Also check the stock interior after removing the barreled action to be certain ALL surfaces have been sealed to repel water. A PROPERLY bedded bolt rifle will always be a plus for your investment. Look into Melvin Forbes Ultralight rifles. He full length beds his rifles.

 

[Bas]

I think the CZ 550 magnums are kinda bulky compared to the Winchesters. I own both and like both. Its just preference i guess. The CZ feels a little softer while firing cause of the bulk while the m70 feels more agile but is almost unpleasant to shoot repeatedly. But im a younger man so its not to much a factor yet... I have a beautiful beautiful m70 in 338 win mag thats about the most unpleasant thing to shoot ive ever had. The rifle is just way to light so it sits most of the time. Infact I haven't shot it in about 2 years.

Maybe consider mercury recoil reduction and a different pad for your. 338. Too good of a weapon to just collect dust.

 

[colorado]

Maybe consider mercury recoil reduction and a different pad for your. 338. Too good of a weapon to just collect dust.

How heavy is your M70 in 338 Win Mag? Is it wood stocked or synthetic? My older son has LH M70 Classic (CRF) in 416 Rem. It's pretty damn heavy but with a good recoil pad and a mercury recoil reducer in the stock it's fine to shoot offhand. We use a lead sled for all of our bench shooting with the big bores. Another easy cure is to shoot my 500 Jeffery. He shot my 500 and then shot his 338 and said "I guess I really don't need a muzzle brake"

 

[Milehighshooter]

On another tack, I'm contemplating getting another 70 375HH and converting it to 404 Jef. I like the way the 70 fits me and handles but I don't want to be hammered into the next county by recoil. I've done a lot of reading in threads here comparing 404 and 416 and it seems the 404 will do just about everything the 416 will without knocking your teeth out. Can the conversion be made without a major overhaul and is it economically feasible? I've read up on the CZ but have not handled one yet. Maybe at the SCI show in Jan. Comments and thoughts, please.

If you decide you want to pursue the M70 conversation project, send me a PM. Ive got a magnum action NIB M70 I've been trying to move for a few months. If you're going to rebarrel anyways, I can save you several hundred over buying a 375 for the conversion.

 

[Bas]

How heavy is your M70 in 338 Win Mag? Is it wood stocked or synthetic? My older son has LH M70 Classic (CRF) in 416 Rem. It's pretty damn heavy but with a good recoil pad and a mercury recoil reducer in the stock it's fine to shoot offhand. We use a lead sled for all of our bench shooting with the big bores. Another easy cure is to shoot my 500 Jeffery. He shot my 500 and then shot his 338 and said "I guess I really don't need a muzzle brake"

I used a lead sled (borrowed) for one range session, thought about it, decided not to use one again.
I'm not a brainiac, never attended a physics class but the process got me to thinking, where does that energy go if not to the shooter ?
Certainly the sled absorbs it but it also shortens the stroke of normal recoil and more abruptly stops the movment. Makes me wonder if it adversely puts unnecessary stress on the rifle and stock, and scope. Any input? Thanks if you reply. I'm kind of stuck on this topic.

Bob

 

[Von S.]

Sure it does!

 

[sierraone]

Wish life in general was as reliable as M 70s!

 

[colorado]

The lead sled definitely puts more stress on the stock and scope, but less on my shoulder. I only use it for load development, then do all of my shooting either offhand or kneeling with a sling.

 

[Bas]

Good deal. Have you ever used a Past shoulder harness ? I shot my 375h&h today about 25 times and my 460 about 20-25 times plus a lightweight 308 win. 15-20 shots. Absolutely no bad after effects . All shots were off sandbags . I use a Primos trigger stick when hunting. If I don't have a rest I don't shoot. This is for whitetails not incom

 

[BeeMaa]

I too have a lead sled and only use it for sighting in, because I agree on the stress to the stock and scope.

I shot my 375h&h today about 25 times
my 460 about 20-25 times
plus a lightweight 308 win. 15-20 shots.

That is a bunch of shooting.
Goes to show that the more you do it, the more you are able to do it and stay on target.

 

[lwaters]

I just don't put a lot of weight on the sled and let it the rifle move it. I don't think you want a lot of weight on a big bore my crack the stock.

 

[One Day...]

The one thing I would recommend on a Win 70 Classic CRF is to have the action drilled and tapped for 8-40 screws to attach the scope bases (instead of the factory 6-48 screws), and to Red Loctite high tensile strength Torx screws (the Leupold are good) in place at 35 inch/lbs torque after thoroughly degreasing the holes and screws with acetone. Actually, if we were in Europe I would have the bases silver soldered on the action, gunsmiths are used to do that over there to attach scope bases on doubles. I would of course use QD rings (Talley bases and rings are good. So are Warnes, etc.) and as @Von S. stated, I would make sure the iron sights are regulated properly to YOUR way of looking through them.

The one objective advantage of the CZ 550 action over the Win 70 Classic is that it has integral scope bases. That it one less thing to go wrong (oh yes bases get loose after a few hundred shots on high recoil guns - which the .375 is on the edge of).

Conversely, the one objective advantage that the Win 70 Classic has over the CZ 550 is that it has a true firing-pin-blocking safety (the CZ only has a trigger blocking safety). This must be replaced on a gun that will be carried in the bush with a loaded chamber during potentially hours-long follow ups on a blood trail

I also like the fact that the CZ 550 rear sight base is integral to the barrel and the front sight is banded. They will not fall off (oh yes, it happens). The Win 70 sights are attached with screws that are likely to get loose at some point.

Since it is easier to add the 3 position safety on the CZ550 than it would be in most places to silver-solder scope bases on the Win 70 (heck! I would weld them if I could!), my personal choice would be a CZ 550 with an after-market Winchester type 3 position safety (Gentry, Lapour, American Hunting Rifle).

I would also put a Bell & Carlson Kevlar stock with integral aluminum bedding block and pillars on either rifle, to eliminate the risk of cracking in dry heat and warping in high humidity (oh yes, that too happens).

I reckon that if Winchester modified slightly their machining process to have integral dovetails on the Win 70 CRF action (like Sako does), and it they had integral rear sight base (I think they restarted doing so on the Alaskan), a barrel band front sling mount and a banded front sight, they would arguably have a darn near ideal package. I would take mine stainless and Kevlar, but it would work too blued and walnut.

Anyone knows a decision maker at Winchester?

Just my $0.02

Mine is in .416 Rigby, but the same concepts applies to one in .375 H&H

 

[Von S.]

I still have a few new cz actions to build a rifle or two with that appear that they do not suffer the rough finish that new ones seem to be plagued with.

I love a beautiful flat top and believe that's the way all rifles should have been built after the guy who said scopes were a " passing fancy" was proven wrong.

Ruger did a fine job with their receivers in that respect.

I am pretty impressed as our friend " BAS" is most assuridly yet another example of a recoil proof human being. The 460 is a round that many can not shoot because of recoil, but if you can I have never seen anything not fall down when hit right.

I have never shot 25 of those rounds in one day even with a silencer in place. Without one I've shot 7 before I surrendered. I'm good all day with the 375 and 235 gr bullets.

 

[IdaRam]

I shot my 375h&h today about 25 times and my 460 about 20-25 times plus a lightweight 308 win. 15-20 shots.

Pretty sure I would be suffering from concussion and detached retinas!

 

[Bas]

I still have a few new cz actions to build a rifle or two with that appear that they do not suffer the rough finish that new ones seem to be plagued with.

I love a beautiful flat top and believe that's the way all rifles should have been built after the guy who said scopes were a " passing fancy" was proven wrong.

Ruger did a fine job with their receivers in that respect.

I am pretty impressed as our friend " BAS" is most assuridly yet another example of a recoil proof human being. The 460 is a round that many can not shoot because of recoil, but if you can I have never seen anything not fall down when hit right.

I have never shot 25 of those rounds in one day even with a silencer in place. Without one I've shot 7 before I surrendered. I'm good all day with the 375 and 235 gr bullets.

I should add that the 308 was shooting 79 gr. Lehighs, the 375 using 175 gr. CEB and 235 gr. and the .460 using 260 CEB. Had they all been using max heavy bullet loads results may be quite different. However these were all max loads for the bullets used. First opinion, assure you get full sight picture in the scope and NO CLOSER !
Second opinion, hold the stock as tightly as possible in to your shoulder (not the crevice) without ruining the crosshair steadiness on the bullseye. If you use foam earpugs soak them in water for about 30 seconds and gently sweeze out the excess just before insertion. It makes quite a difference in performance. Don't forget the Past harness !!!

I still have a few new cz actions to build a rifle or two with that appear that they do not suffer the rough finish that new ones seem to be plagued with.

I love a beautiful flat top and believe that's the way all rifles should have been built after the guy who said scopes were a " passing fancy" was proven wrong.

Ruger did a fine job with their receivers in that respect.

I am pretty impressed as our friend " BAS" is most assuridly yet another example of a recoil proof human being. The 460 is a round that many can not shoot because of recoil, but if you can I have never seen anything not fall down when hit right.

I have never shot 25 of those rounds in one day even with a silencer in place. Without one I've shot 7 before I surrendered. I'm good all day with the 375 and 235 gr bullets.

 

[Bas]

The one thing I would recommend on a Win 70 Classic CRF is to have the action drilled and tapped for 8-40 screws to attach the scope bases (instead of the factory 6-48 screws), and to Red Loctite high tensile strength Torx screws (the Leupold are good) in place at 35 inch/lbs torque after thoroughly degreasing the holes and screws with acetone. Actually, if we were in Europe I would have the bases silver soldered on the action, gunsmiths are used to do that over there to attach scope bases on doubles. I would of course use QD rings (Talley bases and rings are good. So are Warnes, etc.) and as @Von S. stated, I would make sure the iron sights are regulated properly to YOUR way of looking through them.

The one objective advantage of the CZ 550 action over the Win 70 Classic is that it has integral scope bases. That it one less thing to go wrong (oh yes bases get loose after a few hundred shots on high recoil guns - which the .375 is on the edge of).

Conversely, the one objective advantage that the Win 70 Classic has over the CZ 550 is that it has a true firing-pin-blocking safety (the CZ only has a trigger blocking safety). This must be replaced on a gun that will be carried in the bush with a loaded chamber during potentially hours-long follow ups on a blood trail

I also like the fact that the CZ 550 rear sight base is integral to the barrel and the front sight is banded. They will not fall off (oh yes, it happens). The Win 70 sights are attached with screws that are likely to get loose at some point.

Since it is easier to add the 3 position safety on the CZ550 than it would be in most places to silver-solder scope bases on the Win 70 (heck! I would weld them if I could!), my personal choice would be a CZ 550 with an after-market Winchester type 3 position safety (Gentry, Lapour, American Hunting Rifle).

I would also put a Bell & Carlson Kevlar stock with integral aluminum bedding block and pillars on either rifle, to eliminate the risk of cracking in dry heat and warping in high humidity (oh yes, that too happens).

I reckon that if Winchester modified slightly their machining process to have integral dovetails on the Win 70 CRF action (like Sako does), and it they had integral rear sight base (I think they restarted doing so on the Alaskan), a barrel band front sling mount and a banded front sight, they would arguably have a darn near ideal package. I would take mine stainless and Kevlar, but it would work too blued and walnut.

Anyone knows a decision maker at Winchester?

Just my $0.02

View attachment 257203
Mine is in .416 Rigby, but the same concepts applies to one in .375 H&H

I hesitate to post this but since its the truth........
Did some research lately about sights and barrel installation. When I was working use of a mill was available. No longer. I know that soldering has been done for years, I also know soldering has on occasion come apart. I wanted a DIY approach and came across Loctite 380. Research this for yourself.
I timidly put a rear express sight on my .460 with it and it came off on the 3rd shot. I saw only about 2/3 of the sight made contact with the barrel. After finding that even cured 380 can be removed with acetone and rubbing with rag or q-tips, I taped off my stock and barrel where the compond didn't belong.
This 380 is runny so plan accordingly. I also placed grit paper on the barrel and rubbed the bottom of the sight on it until complete contact was achieved. Totally covered the sight base in 380 and placed it on the barrel. It gave me adequate time to level the sight before set up. Do it asap just to be sure. With the loads mentioned above it held. Fingers crossed.
It recommends to clamp object in place but I had nothing to use.
After curing I cleaned up run off as described above. Don't know how it will hold up, time will tell .
YOUR DISCRETION !!!

 

[Bas]

I hesitate to post this but since its the truth........
Did some research lately about sights and barrel installation. When I was working use of a mill was available. No longer. I know that soldering has been done for years, I also know soldering has on occasion come apart. I wanted a DIY approach and came across Loctite 380. Research this for yourself.
I timidly put a rear express sight on my .460 with it and it came off on the 3rd shot. I saw only about 2/3 of the sight made contact with the barrel. After finding that even cured 380 can be removed with acetone and rubbing with rag or q-tips, I taped off my stock and barrel where the compond didn't belong.
This 380 is runny so plan accordingly. I also placed grit paper on the barrel and rubbed the bottom of the sight on it until complete contact was achieved. Totally covered the sight base in 380 and placed it on the barrel. It gave me adequate time to level the sight before set up. Do it asap just to be sure. With the loads mentioned above it held. Fingers crossed.
It recommends to clamp object in place but I had nothing to use.
After curing I cleaned up run off as described above. Don't know how it will hold up, time will tell .
YOUR DISCRETION !!!

Also installed a barrel band on a 375HH and a barrel band on the 460. Solid so far.......
The Loctite 380 cost about $27.00 US on Amazon. Get your calculators humming to see the cost per US gallon at that price !!!
You might find it cheaper to purchase by the gallon, I didn't bother to check. It also recommends storage in the fridge. An ounce goes a long way !

 

[wesheltonj]

. . . If you are not going to shoot past 300 yards and " click " your life away with the turrets I suggest that you just don't have them at all. Yea! I know, they look cool but they stick out and bang into things. . . .

I have a "click" Windage on my 375. The outfitter told me just to set it to Zero at 100 meters and not worry about spinning the dial, there will be no time. He was right, no time to spin the dial, lucky just to get the shot off.

 

[One Day...]

You are entirely correct @Bas, some solder joints on double rifle scope bases do come apart. I have actually witnessed it myself on a friend's high $, best-quality Belgium Lebeau Courally double 9.3x74R over/under rifle. The expression on his face was priceless when the front claw mount came off the barrel as he was delicately putting his scope on the gun that morning!

In most cases, it is due to poor workmanship (too much gap in the contact areas, or cold tin solder, or not enough flux, etc.). There is no magic solution for gaps in the contact area but better matting of the surfaces before soldering. In regard to the solder itself, this is why I prefer silver solder over tin solder. It is much stronger. The issue - because there is of course no free lunch LOL - is that silver soldering requires higher temperatures. These temperatures are typically higher than what can be used on relatively thin double barrels, but they are compatible with the thickness of a bolt action, although one needs to be careful about not altering the heat treatment of the lugs, therefore use heat absorbing paste inside the action while soldering on the outside. Complicated...

Re. Loctite, for clarification I was not talking about gluing the bases, but thread-locking the screws that attach the bases, in order to prevent them from loosening. I was horrified coming back from Africa in August to discover that after 54 shots the 8-40 base screws on my .340 Wby had loosened from 35 inch/lbs down to about 10 inch/lbs !?!?!? Upon research, I selected Loctite 263 thread locker because it includes the primer necessary to use on non-active metals such as stainless steel (which my Mark V action is made of).

I am keenly interested in the result of your experiment just gluing rear sights to the barrel with Loctite 380. I reckon that if it holds on a .460 Wby it will hold on "anything." Please DO provide updates on the developments... I can see in my future applications for combining gluing the bases with 380 AND thread-locking the screws with 263 (a belt & suspender type of approach, which I like when attaching bases on an action