Question for military/LE

[Wyatt Smith]

The main problem with pistol caliber SMGs is that they are chambered in a pistol caliber. While they have their advantages, terminal performance isn’t one.

 

[B0MBOY]

My cousin’s grandson finished up basic in the Army and now he’s onto the next phase of training, forgive me I don’t know the lingo. He’s in Airborne. Anyway the Army now shows training pictures on their Facebook page. As it happens he was in one recently. They were teaching them how to clear rooms in teams and squads. So to my question: why do they use an M4 for that? Seems awkward and unruly inside a building with a real possibility of over penetration. Wouldn’t a 9mm SMG of some kind be better, or a handgun or shotgun?

The military reason is everyone gets an M4 so that’s what you use. And as far as cqb weapons go an M4 with the issued eotech is maybe 90% of the the ideal cqb weapons features anyway.

The reality is the super special guys who get to pick what they want to use for CQB seem to end up somewhere around a 10.5” barrel 556 rifle (+/- an inch or two) with a suppressor and a red dot/holographic sight to be the ideal CQB weapon.

If you watch ballistic testing 556 out of a 10.5” barrel is still vastly superior to most alternatives, namely 9mm, 45acp, and 300 blackout. So point in favor of m4 for caliber

I can tell you from experience the eotech and the aimpoint T2 are the pinnacle of CQB optics. Putting an eotech on my competition rifle halved my times for el presidente and mozambique drills. So point for m4 for optic

Profile wise a 10” ish barrel should be better for CQB, but in reality everyone using that short barrel sticks a suppressor on it because it’s loud, the muzzle flash is enormous, it gives away your position, generally not a good time. So ultimately your 10.5” ar gets a 4-6” suppressor stuck on front most of the time and you’re back at approximately m4 overall length again.

So basically an M4 is about as good as you’re going to get in CQB unless you’re highly specialized and get the short barrel+suppressor combo.

 

[wesheltonj]

Be careful with getting a false sense of security and believing that a 9mm FMJ or self defense bullet will not penetrate through 3 walls of normal US home construction materials.

That why you use Glaser Safety slugs indoors. I carry two magazines, one for indoors loaded with Glaser and one for outdoors loaded with hollow points and change them out as necessary.

 

[gbflyer]

The military reason is everyone gets an M4 so that’s what you use. And as far as cqb weapons go an M4 with the issued eotech is maybe 90% of the the ideal cqb weapons features anyway.

The reality is the super special guys who get to pick what they want to use for CQB seem to end up somewhere around a 10.5” barrel 556 rifle (+/- an inch or two) with a suppressor and a red dot/holographic sight to be the ideal CQB weapon.

If you watch ballistic testing 556 out of a 10.5” barrel is still vastly superior to most alternatives, namely 9mm, 45acp, and 300 blackout. So point in favor of m4 for caliber

I can tell you from experience the eotech and the aimpoint T2 are the pinnacle of CQB optics. Putting an eotech on my competition rifle halved my times for el presidente and mozambique drills. So point for m4 for optic

Profile wise a 10” ish barrel should be better for CQB, but in reality everyone using that short barrel sticks a suppressor on it because it’s loud, the muzzle flash is enormous, it gives away your position, generally not a good time. So ultimately your 10.5” ar gets a 4-6” suppressor stuck on front most of the time and you’re back at approximately m4 overall length again.

So basically an M4 is about as good as you’re going to get in CQB unless you’re highly specialized and get the short barrel+suppressor combo.

I had also considered the muzzle flash but didn’t mention it. Seems like a lot of the bad stuff happens in the dark. Giant ball of fire has to waste a persons natural night vision. I suppose the professionals are kitted out to deal with it, maybe the homeowner in a defensive situation not so much.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Profile wise a 10” ish barrel should be better for CQB, but in reality everyone using that short barrel sticks a suppressor on it because it’s loud, the muzzle flash is enormous, it gives away your position, generally not a good time. So ultimately your 10.5” ar gets a 4-6” suppressor stuck on front most of the time and you’re back at approximately m4 overall length again.

So basically an M4 is about as good as you’re going to get in CQB unless you’re highly specialized and get the short barrel+suppressor combo.

The suppressor isn’t there as much for noise as most would think. You’re wearing a headset for both noise reduction and communication. The main reason for the suppressor is reducing the concussion of the muzzle blast for the rest of your buddies in the room and the flash signature so NVG’s don’t get washed out given a lot of those operations occur when most others are sleeping