Question for long-time alaskans

[Muskox man]

I don't want to beat a dead horse but the 30-30 has minimal recoil. If your niece will be using it, this is a good choice for novice or first time users.

 

[Mekaniks]

I lived in AK full time for 32 years and have lived and worked all over the State. I still work there 6 mo of the year....

I used a 12ga shotgun with 00 buck for home defense.... and I carry a 500 S&W and bear spray for hiking and fishing.

I still preform bear guard duties at work when required.... 12ga and bear spray....

.338WM for all big game hunting......

 

[freefall]

I've bee leaning more .30-30ish my ownself.

 

[Alaska Luke]

I live just down the road from them. If they aren't gun people they want something with a higher mag capacity and less recoil. A lever action in 30-30 or 44 mag could work. Or being crazy, a longer barrel 300 Blackout AR. Close to 30-30 performance and easy to use. Start hitting a grizzly or moose with that in the right place and they will leave or die. Yes I've shot bears and moose with bigger stuff but chances are the weak link will be their ability to place a shot quickly and accurately not how powerful their gun is. A hit with a 300 Blk trumps a miss with a 500 High Speed Low Drag Death Magnum. You want something simple to master and easy to practice with. If they become "gun people " they can easily upgrade to something bigger. Or not. I know and old man who used to hunt coastal brown bears with a 30-30.
For the record. Our current house gun is a 12 gauge bur my wife isn't comfortable with it. Before the bears wake up I'll have a light AR15 in 300 Blk set up for her or something similar. A young friend shot a black bear with 308 reduced recoil rounds. It was pretty effective. Imagine similar performance as fast as you can pull the trigger

 

[flatwater bill]

@freefall Let us know what you finally decide on. You mention an SKS. The little round it fires is surprisingly powerful. I have a Ruger Mini-30 that fires the same 7.62X39. I'm not sure what other firearms it is currently offered in, but surprised no one recommends it.............good luck choosing.............FWB

 

[Laura AK64north]

My niece and her husband have moved up from CA. They live in Sutton. They need a yard/house gun. For this function, I have a .44 magnum carbine. But I have a few other choices for other uses.

Freefall, I have lived in Alaska over 30 years. I have taught both bear protection classes and self-defense classes. For bear protection, I have taught with Remington 870s and .357 4-inch barrel Ruger GP100s and S&W 4-inch barrel 686s. I recommend people new to shooting or wilderness protection start there. I recommend Buffalo Bore for the revolvers, with extra loaded speedloaders. Brenneke slugs are fine for the shotgun and seem to be what agencies here provide.

Before providing your niece and her husband with any firearm, if they are not competent in shooting and do not understand how to operate under extreme stress, please sign them up for a bear protection class. What they learn will serve them well for bear protection and defense against a moose. They will also learn to avoid these situations as much as possible.

By taking the class, which should provide the firearms, your niece and her husband will be better able to choose what they are comfortable shooting.

If they are worried about their child or dog being attacked by a bear or moose on their property (a valid concern), they should consider that they, themselves, carry on their property. Most people don't drag around a long gun at home. It is much easier to have a .357 magnum or .44 magnum revolver with a barrel length that they can shoot accurately. That means they can shoot it with one hand if need be.

I switched to Kydex chest holsters. I also recommend Diamond D in Wasilla for leather. They make excellent and well-tested leather chest harnesses, and I have one. I use 40-Below Kydex in Fairbanks for my Kydex chest rig (and used them for students when teaching) because it has numerous points of adjustment that are quicker and easier to make than with leather straps.

Let us know what you and they decide to do and what firearms they get.

Laura

 

[Altitude sickness]

Laura, correct me if I’m wrong. If a person shoots an animal at 50 or 100 yards. That will not be considered self defense.

I guess I could dream up a story where the animal charged multiple times. Then retreated and was about to charge again. But they will measure where you were standing. And where the animal was when you shot. Learning their body language is more valuable than a firearm.

A friend goes home every year to help with his family cannery business and he has Brown bear around his house often. If he shot a bear every time they came within 50 yards. There would not be many bears left around him.

 

[uplander01]

Tell them to get big dogs. A novice with a gun trying to shoot defensively with other people around would be not a good thing imo

 

[uplander01]

A couple of Akita or German Shepard would suffice.

 

[Sourdough]

@freefall the scenario you are describing is self defense, not hunting. In particular self defense from a grizzly or black bear, or a mama moose with a youngster(s), or a bull moose around the rut. All potentially dangerous, in particular moose under the aforementioned circumstances.

In a self defense situation all fine motor skills will leave the person, including taking the time to make a precision kill shot. So the idea of using a .30 cal, or AR or anything like that is ridiculous.

What do the Dangerous Game PH's in Africa carry, nothing in the .30 caliber range, not even a .375. They carry something in the .40 or .50 caliber range. A stopping round, which even if not placed ideally will probably cause the animal to hesitate or turn, offering a second shot opportunity if needed.

A Remington 870 loaded with slugs is the proper long gun. Stainless steel of course, it's Alaska. The one I carry (an older model) would now be this one:
https://www.remarms.com/other-products/tac-14-marine-magnum
I chose this one over one with a butt stock for easy in/out in my bush plane. Also easier and lighter to carry. But a full stock would be fine as well.

Second could be a Marlin in 45-70 which would extend the range, but then it's no longer self defense, and Alaska takes its game laws very seriously, far more so than any of the other states. The one I carry is a stainless version of their guide gun, but this would be an excellent choice as well:
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/s/leverAction-TrapperSeries/

On the handgun front, when I'm river fishing I carry a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull. This in a chest holster.
https://ruger.com/products/superRedhawkAlaskan/models.html

When I'm not fishing I carry a Glock in 10mm, in a Miami holster (underarm pit). Why a Glock? Because they just run. The varsity team, who can have anything they want, run Glocks. That should be enough of a recommendation.
https://us.glock.com/en/Pistols?filter=10mmauto

Here is an example of what can happen in the winter. Bears are in their dens, but moose are still active. A friend that lives in Talkeetna was walking a snow mobile track near his property. Deep enough there was no way to climb out of it. A Bull moose was also in the track (easier walking). The moose didn't take kindly to my friend's presence and charged him. My friend was not carrying a firearm. The moose caught him, got over the top of him and commenced to stomping him. My friend managed to roll around under the moose successfully avoiding it blows until one stomp hit his ankle and foot shattering it. The moose didn't let up. With no other option my friend reached up and squeezed the moose's balls as hard as he could. That got the moose's attention and he quit trying to kill my friend. Four years later, and a hardware store full of fasteners and plates and my friend is still recovering.

I've got moose, black bears, brown bears (among others) that visit my property every year. I'm outside I'm wearing one of my handguns. The moose have calved and raised their young around our cabin for generations so never show signs of aggression, but I know what they are capable of so always keep my eyes on them as mama moose keeps an eye on me. Be sure your family does as well.

 

[375Ruger416]

I live in Alberta, in the foothills of the Rockies. I’m interested in the topic, hope you don’t mind my $0.02.

Pump action 12g with Brenneke slugs +\- 30/06 or 308 semiauto for reasonable recoil and penetration. It sounds like the long gun will be sitting in the mud room to be grabbed if needed so I think a semiauto is reasonable despite the harsh conditions. We can’t carry handguns so I have a 14” barreled shotgun I carry for bear protection when needed - get the shortest barrel shotgun that is legal. I always carry bear spray too, since it is hard to keep a 12g on your body when fishing etc.

+100 on carrying a Glock 10mm at all times when it COULD be needed - but I repeat myself. The shootability, light weight of a Glock and magazine capacity makes it a better choice for new gun owners IMO. All of these firearms will be carried much more than used in an emergency. Pair with a 10 mm carbine if a 30/06 is too much for either of them.

Let us know what they choose, how they make out, and congratulations on the move. If I could have my 12g and a Glock 20 I’d be plenty satisfied for animal control in NA.

 

[Doubleplay]

Tell them to get big dogs. A novice with a gun trying to shoot defensively with other people around would be not a good thing imo

%100 agreed.
Also novices like that will get in trouble with any gun shooting animals in a non defensive situation because they're scared and inexperienced.
On a side note all you need around the house is 12 gauge pump loaded with 000 buck shot.
I have an Alaskan Ruger with a chest holster but most guns like that are never used in real life with few exceptions.
These are far fetched scenarios specially for folks living in suburban environments.

 

[Sourdough]

...These are far fetched scenarios specially for folks living in suburban environments.

Anchorage, a city of 400,000 people gets moose and bears downtown every year.

 

[Rem280]

My niece and her husband have moved up from CA. They live in Sutton. They need a yard/house gun. For this function, I have a .44 magnum carbine. But I have a few other choices for other uses.
What would any of you peoples who I would respect recommend? They do have a shotgun, but they need something with a little more precision at 50-100 yds. I'm concerned about ease of use/power ratio, which is why I'm avoiding bolt-actions for novice users. .30/30? .444 Marlin? Maybe an SKS? This needs to function for anything from aggressive dog to personnel to moose/bear.
Thoughtful responses from people with experience living in similar conditions will be appreciated. Bloviating from occasional hiker suburbanites less so.

A game warden I knew up there was issued a 45/70 with some heavy loads, I forget what grain. Said the recoil was horrible.

 

[Pilgrim]

I wouldn't call Sutton suburban.

 

[vlwtx348]

A game warden I knew up there was issued a 45/70 with some heavy loads, I forget what grain. Said the recoil was horrible.

I apologize for laughing...but I bet I have heard something similar a dozen times in the past 2 months.
When I think of brutal recoil, .45-70 is not what I think of. I've got 8 or 9 I (I forget
) .45-70s. The only time one has seemed brutal was when I fired 10 heavy load rounds in a short time from an 1886 Browning at an upward angle. Right on that shoulder knot
The right .45-70 with heavy loads and the right bullet would be good for rogue bear or moose, but so would a 12 gauge with 00 buck or slugs. Although I might not us 00 if I was worried about hitting my pets or kids. In a high-adrenaline moment, I doubt anyone would notice the recoil on 1 or 2 shots from either.

Now, one day, I sighted in a .35 Whelen, then a .405 Winchester, then a .325 WSM. I was done after that. Sold the .325 WSM after what was probably not its fault

But, it is all in the individual opinion of the shooter. On paper, the recoil energy of those 3 I mention are all at or less the recoil energy of heavy .45-70 loads, but it never seems that way to me. To be fair, I seldom shoot .45-70 from the bench, which plays a big factor in felt recoil.

 

[Doubleplay]

Anchorage, a city of 400,000 people gets moose and bears downtown every year.

I've been in Anchorage many times and ran and biked on the coastal trail a lot.
It's where most animals attacks happen and I remember a runner being killed by a black bear some years ago.
However it's far fetched to call Anchorage a place attacks happen frequently and you need to carry a gun at all times.

 

[freefall]

%100 agreed.
Also novices like that will get in trouble with any gun shooting animals in a non defensive situation because they're scared and inexperienced.
On a side note all you need around the house is 12 gauge pump loaded with 000 buck shot.
I have an Alaskan Ruger with a chest holster but most guns like that are never used in real life with few exceptions.
These are far fetched scenarios specially for folks living in suburban environment

This is exactly what I didn't ask for. Pontification on our life from the east coast.
Thank you everyone who has explained to me what defense of life and property from an animal consists of.
I lived in Trapper Creek for over 20 years, have been a licensed Assistant Guide, have taught a few people to shoot, and have dealt with both moose and bears at close quarters.
I should have known better than to start this thread. I have appreciated SOME of your inputs.
Let's just put this to sleep now.

 

[wvfred]

Although expensive now I believe a Ruger 44 mag auto carbine would be a great choice if you can find one.

 

[JimP]

Situation awareness also goes a long ways to preventing the type of attacks that a person with a dog might experience.