Premium CRF rifles that don't cost as much as a house

[Jetjockey]

Someone asked about accuracy, this Remmy era Dakota 76 is a solid 3/4” gun with factory 400gr TSX’s. That’s saying something for a .416 Rigby. The fit and finish are superb, but it was also custom ordered with all the bells and whistles, so I’m not sure if Dakota took more time on it.

 

[One Day...]

...

A heym express is a fine rifle, but they sell for very high prices second hand for no good explanation. Another option is a Rigby double square bridge 416 Rigby. I've seen some go as low as $13,500 new, even though the MSRP is now around $17,000. That is a very good rifle that will climb in value.

...

EDIT - Personally, you would be hard pressed to find a better deal than this...
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...eym-ag-express-416-rigby.cfm?gun_id=102129657

I believe so. IIRC @One Day... has a high opinion of those rifles

Yes, I do. I never could own one in those days - they were out of my price range - but they are built to last.

Chris Sells, the General Manager (I think ?) of Heym USA calls them "East German tractors: ugly but indestructible", which is funny knowing that they were made in West Germany, but it says plenty...

Admittedly they do not have the gracile refined "English" look of the modern Martini Heym, but - to each their own - to me their beefier stock fits very well my concept of robust DG rifles. What is for sure is that many Martini Heym stocks will crack at the wrist before one of these do. Not that I expect the Martini Heym stock to crack, mind you, they have great reputation, but this is meant to convey that the much sturdier stock of the original Heym Express is likely a lot stronger. This may (?) explain why they keep their second hand value so high among people in the know...

I, for one, would buy the original Heym Express over the Martini Heym, for pure functionality, never mind half the price...

...

Once you go below those guns, you're into guns that do not hold their value. Specifically the CZ550 customs. While a CZ for $2000-$3000 is a great deal, a custom for $8000 just isn't a great value for me when I compare it against the other options above.

I agree with this whole heartedly, and Lord knows a factory CZ 550 can be so easily tuned up into a bulletproof DG rifle by one who does not have 2 thumbs on each hand. I have done it myself several times, and a lot has been posted on this subject... But if someone wants to spend $8k, I would not even think twice about grabbing the Heym Express over a AHR CZ 550. The main value AHR offered was their Upgrade Package #1 which was very reasonable priced. To me, the packages #2 and #3, which were a LOT more expensive offered significantly diminishing return for the money, but, again, to each their own. Package #1 was about functionality, packages #2 and #3 were about looks.

PS: Reportedly AHR sold the ZKK 602 / CZ550 upgrade part of their business to Matrix Gunsmithing in Colorado. I do not have an opinion regarding the Matrix Gunsmithing upgraded CZ 550 because I never saw one, never mind shoot one.

As to the defunct CZ "Custom" shop, Triple River Gunsmithing in Warsaw MO, their quality was dismal. Believe you me, I tried and know what I am talking about...

 

[mark-hunter]

PS: Reportedly AHR sold the ZKK 602 / CZ550 upgrade part of their business to Matrix Gunsmithing in Colorado.

Few days ago I sent email to Wayne at AHR, about spare parts for ZKK, but I did not get an answer. Maybe, this is the reason. Thank you for this information!

 

[ofbiro]

Pardon my ignorance. What is a CRF rifle?

 

[Greffdog]

Someone asked about accuracy, this Remmy era Dakota 76 is a solid 3/4” gun with factory 400gr TSX’s. That’s saying something for a .416 Rigby. The fit and finish are superb, but it was also custom ordered with all the bells and whistles, so I’m not sure if Dakota took more time on it.

That was me, so thank you for responding!

Pardon my ignorance. What is a CRF rifle?

Controlled-Round-Feed -- I had to google this as well as I had never seen this notation

 

[geoff rath]

My only grudge with Rigby is naming the rifle the "Highland Stalker"...it should have been named the "Caledonian".

Och, AYE!!

 

[mark-hunter]

What is a CRF rifle?

Controlled round feed. (as opposed to push round feed).

In practical terms this means mauser 98 type of action.

Besides the fact that not many factories make these type of rifle today, complicating factor is that for DG hunting, you may need magnum length action, which is even more rare in CRF configuration, for reasonable money.

These two things made this thread came to life.

This problem is usually solved by:
- finding 2nd hand zkk 602 or CZ 550
- turning to some other action design, like blaser R8, forget about CRF
- Choosing some CRF rifle in medium action, with compromises in caliber (short DG magnums), or magazine capacity, or both.

Proper magnum lenght action, m98, in DG caliber, entry price level. Sample. Source Mauser.
Find cheaper?

 

[colorado]

I think Wayne at AHR is still building DGRs on CZ 550 actions.

Yes, I do. I never could own one in those days - they were out of my price range - but they are built to last.

Chris Sells, the General Manager (I think ?) of Heym USA calls them "East German tractors: ugly but indestructible", which is funny knowing that they were made in West Germany, but it says plenty...

Admittedly they do not have the gracile refined "English" look of the modern Martini Heym, but - to each their own - to me their beefier stock fits very well my concept of robust DG rifles. What is for sure is that many Martini Heym stocks will crack at the wrist before one of these do. Not that I expect the Martini Heym stock to crack, mind you, they have great reputation, but this is meant to convey that the much sturdier stock of the original Heym Express is likely a lot stronger. This may (?) explain why they keep their second hand value so high among people in the know...

I, for one, would buy the original Heym Express over the Martini Heym, for pure functionality, never mind half the price...



I agree with this whole heartedly, and Lord knows a factory CZ 550 can be so easily tuned up into a bulletproof DG rifle by one who does not have 2 thumbs on each hand. I have done it myself several times, and a lot has been posted on this subject... But if someone wants to spend $8k, I would not even think twice about grabbing the Heym Express over a AHR CZ 550. The main value AHR offered was their Upgrade Package #1 which was very reasonable priced. To me, the packages #2 and #3, which were a LOT more expensive offered significantly diminishing return for the money, but, again, to each their own. Package #1 was about functionality, packages #2 and #3 were about looks.

PS: Reportedly AHR sold the ZKK 602 / CZ550 upgrade part of their business to Matrix Gunsmithing in Colorado. I do not have an opinion regarding the Matrix Gunsmithing upgraded CZ 550 because I never saw one, never mind shoot one.

As to the defunct CZ "Custom" shop, Triple River Gunsmithing in Warsaw MO, their quality was dismal. Believe you me, I tried and know what I am talking about...

I agree with you on the CZ #1 upgrade I paid all of $500 for mine it was a steal 15 years ago.

 

[358 Norma]

There are some deals out there if you look, just purchased on GunBroker a Dakota 76 416 Remington mag for about half the price of what they last sold for.

 

[Ray B]

My preference would be to purchase a M70 action as was offered for sale on these pages and may still be available, then order a barrel from a good company such as Lilja and have it assembled by a gunsmith whom I had previously dealt with to know the quality of his/her work. then depending if I wanted a pretty/traditional stock I'd order a nice stick and have it fitted, or I'd (more likely) get something like a quality synthetic stock and have it dipped for wood grain. Total cost would be in the 3-4K range.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If looking for a quality rifle below the cost of a British "best" bespoke creation, then a Rigby or Mauser production rifle would seem to exactly fit the bill. Several of us here on the site are very happy with our Highland Stalkers.

@Red Leg
Australia has just got hold of 5 only Rigbys designated the water buffalo model in 450 Rigby. They are on sale at $32,000 aud.
These are limited to 5 rifles and marked ? of 5 on the floor plate with a water buff engraved on the floor plate as well.
Lovely rifle but well above my pay grade.
Bob

 

[Northern Shooter]

Perhaps I should reword this, how would you rank the overall fit/finish/quality of rifles including the CZ550, Model 70, Ruger Hawkeye, Sako 85, Kimbers, Montana Rifle, Dakota 76, Heym Express, Rigby Big Game etc?

Leaving out the custom rifles and the London's best selection.

 

[degoins]

With the Heym, are you referring to the Martini Express? If so, from my own experience examining and handling examples of all but the Montana, the Heym gets the nod.

 

[mark-hunter]

My experience is limited. Sako 85, no flaws, in 3006. Cannot comment on 375 and above, some owners comment on extraction issues where casing hits the scope on low mounts in dg calibers. Such reports are inconsistent, as some complain, some dont.

I own zkk 602, in 375, rifle as it is, is functional, but some upgrades are reccomended, such as offered by matrix gunsmithing, or AHR. My guess, same stands for cz550. Upgrade 1, 2, 3 etc
But with all upgrades, fully optional, you still get best buy dg gun for the money.

 

[WAB]

Perhaps I should reword this, how would you rank the overall fit/finish/quality of rifles including the CZ550, Model 70, Ruger Hawkeye, Sako 85, Kimbers, Montana Rifle, Dakota 76, Heym Express, Rigby Big Game etc?

Leaving out the custom rifles and the London's best selection.

You have mixed $1,500 rifles with $15,000 rifles. Not really a fair comparison. If we break them down into like groupings:

Lowest cost with best first:
M-70
CZ
Ruger (more a design knock than fit and finish)

Mid range with best first:
Sako
Kimber

High end but not London best:
IMO hard to go wrong with Heym, Rigby or Mauser. I bought Rigby but like them all.

Dakota is kind of between the mid and high and compares favorably with the high end guns. I don’t know where to put Montana. I don’t want to ruffle feathers, but the stock design on the few I’ve handled was very poor so I never got to examining the finer points of these rifles.

 

[colorado]

I guess I'm partial to my CZ 550 I think it's clearly a better rifle than a Kimber, I don't consider the Sako CRF so it's out for me, and as the owner of a model 70 Classic in 416 Rem, I like it better than the M70 as well. Compared to a Heym, Mauser, etc no comparison.

 

[Houston Bill]

Hard to beat the Rigby if you are looking to spend around $15 - 20 K

 

[WAB]

I guess I'm partial to my CZ 550 I think it's clearly a better rifle than a Kimber, I don't consider the Sako CRF so it's out for me, and as the owner of a model 70 Classic in 416 Rem, I like it better than the M70 as well. Compared to a Heym, Mauser, etc no comparison.

Yeah, it’s all what works for each of us. I love my M70’s and spent way too much having them customized. My buddy and I have .458 Lotts, mine a custom M70, his a CZ AHR #3. I don’t think there’s a dimes worth of difference between them.

 

[BeeMaa]

Firmly in the Heym camp for value, practicality and resale for a CRF rifle.

That said, I only own Blaser (push-feed) rifles now...and see no advantages to changing at this point.

 

[Northern Shooter]

With the Heym, are you referring to the Martini Express? If so, from my own experience examining and handling examples of all but the Montana, the Heym gets the nod.

Yup, Martini Express. They have a Heym in 416 Rigby right now, very tempting.