Politics

[Brent in Az]

Never tell a car salesman what type of monthly payment you want. It's the oldest trick in the sales playbook.
Negotiate the total price.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

We picked the wife up a F150 in November, and buying it though the business helped ease the sticker shock we knew was coming. It amazed me how all the sales guys wanted to push the monthly payments, and looked at me like I had three heads for asking to see the total cost through ad the end of the payment terms.

I don’t know if I should be talking to you or not your the bad Canadian posting offensive memes… shame on you.

I like when they come bragging about how much they’ll give you for your truck if you’ll just trade it when it’s in for service. It doesn’t take a brain mechanic to do the math on basic depreciation. That’s the only reason I haven’t traded my 23 ram absolutely hate the the truck.

 

[Aaron N]

GM certainly was during the Bush/Obama collapse to the ridicule of republican and libertarian economic conservatives. I wonder what their reaction will be should that happen today and Trump takes action to save either of them.

It’s 2025, I’m always right, and everyone else is always wrong. The only standards we have are double standards.

 

[Red Leg]

And what’s the correct action? I am truly interested. I do run a business and genuinely curious.

For those businesses, they will raise their prices so they can maintain their slim profit margins. Every business will do that and the consumer picks up the additional cost. That is why tariffs are essentially a sales tax. The last time we tried an aggressive protectionist tariff policy was in the 20's and 1930's with the most notable examples being the Fordney-McCumber Tariff of 1922 and the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. These policies marked a period of heightened protectionism aimed at shielding American industries and farmers from foreign competition. If you will check the dates, those efforts were not followed by a recession - they were followed by the Great Depression.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

For those businesses, they will raise their prices so they can maintain their slim profit margins. Every business will do that and the consumer picks up the additional cost. That is why tariffs are essentially a sales tax. The last time we tried an aggressive protectionist tariff policy was in the 20's and 1930's with the most notable examples being the Fordney-McCumber Tariff of 1922 and the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. These policies marked a period of heightened protectionism aimed at shielding American industries and farmers from foreign competition. If you will check the dates, those efforts were not followed by a recession - they were followed by the Great Depression.

October 29th 1929 Black Thursday the markets crashed leading to a depression it took a world war to climb back out of.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Too big to fail…… right?!?

Well, WE the U.S. taxpayers bailed out the banks, GM (Ford declined a bailout) and the US Airlines in 2008 during the housing collapse/Great Recession and AGAIN during COVID. When do WE, the U.S. taxpayers get OUR bailout from recent almost record (since 1980) inflation and interest rates? It seems it doesn’t matter how incompetent these and other companies are they ALWAYS get bailed out by the taxpayers and WE end up holding the $34 TRILLION and counting national debt for our great, great grandchildren to figure out how to pay it down to survive. Truly shameful IMO.

 

[Tanks]

From what Trump and Bessent have said, the goal is to have those parts ultimately made in America. Evidently companies and countries have committed around $3T of investment so far. Will it work. Only time will tell.
...

One thing to consider. It seems just about everyone is in the same boat. Is the cost of some lost sales offset by the cost of building and ramping new supply change when you know the administration policy on tariffs will change in a few years whenever Democrats come back to power.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Well, WE the U.S. taxpayers bailed out the banks, GM (Ford declined a bailout) and the US Airlines in 2008 during the housing collapse/Great Recession and AGAIN during COVID. When do WE, the U.S. taxpayers get OUR bailout from recent almost record (since 1980) inflation and interest rates? It seems it doesn’t matter how incompetent these and other companies are they ALWAYS get bailed out by the taxpayers and WE end up holding the $34 TRILLION and counting national debt for our great, great grandchildren to figure out how to pay it down to survive. Truly shameful IMO.

Canada also propped up the auto sector the u.s. didn’t do it alone.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

One thing to consider. It seems just about everyone is in the same boat. Is the cost of some lost sales offset by the cost of building and ramping new supply change when you know the administration policy on tariffs will change in a few years whenever Democrats come back to power.

Wouldn’t captains of industries simply make hollow promises and platitudes for the next 18 months or so and see how the mid terms go before making any permanent shifts?

 

[Tanks]

New cars are way too expensive, interest rates are high, and there’s a glut of them sitting. The manufacturers are going to have to stop charging home prices for a new truck and absorb any tariff on imported components if they want to sell them.

Depends on the car. I paid $5K above MSRP for my Lexus GX 550 and there is a 6-month waiting list. US car makers will be the ones hurting the most.

 

[Tanks]

Wouldn’t captains of industries simply make hollow promises and platitudes for the next 18 months or so and see how the mid terms go before making any permanent shifts?

They did that with the CHIPS act investments here.

 

[deewayne2003]

I'll give you credit for coming up with a totally new export theory. You should publish it. Curious to what military exports you are referring, and of those, how are they remotely "artificial."

Over the last five years our military related exports make up a grand total of 7.8 % of total exports. That is a fairly consistent though on the higher end of the range in percentage of total over the last few decades (recent European concerns over Russia and Israeli requirements). It was much higher, as a percentage during the Cold War - that Arsenal of Democracy thing holdover. I should note the administration was engaged with Europe and the press yesterday and today assuring them we will continue to be reliable providers of their defense needs.

What do you consider "short term" loss? 6 months/ a year/ two years/ five?

I consider short term to be 5 years at least..... or perhaps an equal amount of time that it took US factories to be closed and sent overseas, illegal immigration causing wage devaluation and other issues regarding the disaster of NAFTA that took decades to come to bear.

So it's safe to say that short term pain will be measured in years to correct mistakes that were left to fester for decades.

When I was in high school in the early 2000's the news headlines were screaming that the national debt equated to $10K for every US citizen and as of January 2025 that debt is now $106K per person.

To paraphrase Einstein, we cannot continue to do the same thing and expect different results.

Nor can we expect things to change overnight and things will most likely get worse before they get better, I am optimistic though for all our presidents faults - of which there are many, I genuinely see him as having the American citizens best interests in mind.

If I can survive the social idiocy of Austin for the entirety of Covid; I can deal with another recession as I've been through one before and if paying that price is what it takes to not pass the buck to the next generation, so be it.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I consider short term to be 5 years at least..... or perhaps an equal amount of time that it took US factories to be closed and sent overseas, illegal immigration causing wage devaluation and other issues regarding the disaster of NAFTA that took decades to come to bear.

So it's safe to say that short term pain will be measured in years to correct mistakes that were left to fester for decades.

When I was in high school in the early 2000's the news headlines were screaming that the national debt equated to $10K for every US citizen and as of January 2025 that debt is now $106K per person.

To paraphrase Einstein, we cannot continue to do the same thing and expect different results.

Nor can we expect things to change overnight and things will most likely get worse before they get better, I am optimistic though for all our presidents faults - of which there are many, I genuinely see him as having the American citizens best interests in mind.

If I can survive the social idiocy of Austin for the entirety of Covid; I can deal with another recession as I've been through one before and if paying that price is what it takes to not pass the buck to the next generation, so be it.

Sounds doomed to fail to me, if your timeline is accurate than the economic down turn will outlast the current presidents term. Common sense dictates that a long term economic downturn will cost the republicans the white house at which point they democrats reverse policy to ease the burden and appeal to there core supporters. For it to have a chance of success from my understanding of the articles I can find trump needs to be able to show major returns by the midterm.

 

[deewayne2003]

And what’s the correct action? I am truly interested. I do run a business and genuinely curious.

I thought that FORD's CEO(2006-2014) Allen Mulally response was the correct action....

I remember when GM's CEO was bloviating about how he would "Work for $1 if we get the bail out"

Then the grand standing politicians asked Ford's CEO who was CEO of Boeing(1998-2006) before taking over Ford if he would work for $1? ...... His response "No I'm good, we'll right our own ship"

He did things like stopping production of the Mercury line of vehicles, he rewarded people who spoke up and said they shouldn't send out cars with parts that would result in recalls.

Now in all honesty Ford did get a $5.9Bil loan that they paid back, but they didn't take the full on bailout like GM.

However the CEO of Ford did argue for the bailout as he knew there were tool and die manufacturers in the USA that both Ford and GM were dependant on for tooling and likewise the tooling manufacturers would have gone under if GM did.

 

[Aaron N]

And what’s the correct action? I am truly interested. I do run a business and genuinely curious.

Wouldn’t free market adherents say that if the business can’t survive it has no basis of existing?

 

[Red Leg]

I thought that FORD's CEO(2006-2014) Allen Mulally response was the correct action....

I remember when GM's CEO was bloviating about how he would "Work for $1 if we get the bail out"

Then the grand standing politicians asked Ford's CEO who was CEO of Boeing(1998-2006) before taking over Ford if he would work for $1? ...... His response "No I'm good, we'll right our own ship"

He did things like stopping production of the Mercury line of vehicles, he rewarded people who spoke up and said they shouldn't send out cars with parts that would result in recalls.

Now in all honesty Ford did get a $5.9Bil loan that they paid back, but they didn't take the full on bailout like GM.

However the CEO of Ford did argue for the bailout as he knew there were tool and die manufacturers in the USA that both Ford and GM were dependant on for tooling and likewise the tooling manufacturers would have gone under if GM did.

I assume you would still value a Ford perspective today?

Ford CEO says 25% tariff on Canada, Mexico would 'blow a hole' in US auto industry

Ford CEO Jim Farley did not mince words with Wall Street on Tuesday, describing the impact from a lasting 25% tariff as being "devastating."

www.usatoday.com

https://fordauthority.com/2025/03/ford-ceo-jim-farley-tells-employees-trump-tariff-impact-will-be-significant/

 

[deewayne2003]

For it to have a chance of success from my understanding of the articles I can find trump needs to be able to show major returns by the midterm.

I agree with this statement, however major returns does not mean the situation has to be 100% corrected.

He just needs progess, for all the theatrics, he’s selling his own brand of “Hope & Change” but actually trying to bring it to reality instead of false promises.

Trump has his highest approval rating of his tenor while even CNN is showing the Democrats as having the lowest approval rating in their history of polling.

The Democrats really can’t seem to grasp that their pearl clutching over issues that only 20% of Americans support is doing them irrevocable harm; I believe the same was true in the Canadian liberal party holding to the carbon taxes that that seemed wildly unpopular.

The difference between Canadian liberals and USA leftist is that Canadians seem to actually realize when something doesn’t work ergo the carbon tax coming to an end; much the same as the 1993 Canadian national firearm (non restricted long gun) registry that was nullified in 2012 by bill C-19.

I also haven’t seen any instances of Teslas being torched or vandalized in mass like you see in the USA or other acts of violence in the name of “social justice” north of the border.

 

[Tanks]

I consider short term to be 5 years at least..... or perhaps an equal amount of time that it took US factories to be closed and sent overseas, illegal immigration causing wage devaluation and other issues regarding the disaster of NAFTA that took decades to come to bear.

So it's safe to say that short term pain will be measured in years to correct mistakes that were left to fester for decades.

...

If the pain is measured in months let alone in years, the GOP will lose in 2026 and 2028. When people were looking at economic indicators and saying Biden economy was doing well the counterpoint was that it was not being reflected on Main street. Same type of thinking applies now. People are not going to care about "future" manufacturing jobs if they can't make ends meet due to tariffs etc..

 

[deewayne2003]

I assume you would still value a Ford perspective today?

Ford CEO says 25% tariff on Canada, Mexico would 'blow a hole' in US auto industry

Ford CEO Jim Farley did not mince words with Wall Street on Tuesday, describing the impact from a lasting 25% tariff as being "devastating."

www.usatoday.com

https://fordauthority.com/2025/03/ford-ceo-jim-farley-tells-employees-trump-tariff-impact-will-be-significant/

Unfortunately not so much on the value of Fords CEO as of late; I’ve lost a lot of respect for them over the “dealer adjustments” and other policies, as lots of their outsourcing of parts happened after Mulally left; as I believe there are more USA made parts in my Tundra than an F150 and having owned both and driven both as company vehicles the Toyota is of superior quality.

Although I would love to hear what Mulally would have to say about both Ford’s leadership decisions over the last decade as well as his thoughts on the tariffs.

I am interested to see how this affects Harley Davidson with 40%ish of Harley parts being imported.

 

[deewayne2003]

If the pain is measured in months let alone in years, the GOP will lose in 2026 and 2028. When people were looking at economic indicators and saying Biden economy was doing well the counterpoint was that it was not being reflected on Main street. Same type of thinking applies now. People are not going to care about "future" manufacturing jobs if they can't make ends meet due to tariffs etc..

True the average American has the attention span of a goldfish when it comes to looking at long term cost vs gain; however time will tell and I’m optimistic for the future; and glad I didn’t have to exercise the nuclear option…

If Harris had won, my plan was to ride out the continued inflation of her term/terms to the benefit of my property value and then liquidate the precious metals, land, bitcoin and go to DFW with a shoulder bag and move to Costa Rica where I could operate my business via email and enjoy retirement with no tax on foreign income per Costa Rican law.