Politics

[Fastrig]

Yep.

Hard to believe we're here, again.

After all, USMCA is the largest, fairest, most balanced, and modern trade agreement ever achieved. There’s never been anything like it.

It replaced a disastrous trade deal that rewarded outsourcing with a truly fair and reciprocal trade deal that kept jobs, wealth, and growth in America.

The agreement was a tremendous breakthrough for American agriculture. Canada finally provided greater access for American dairy. And it is a cutting-edge, state-of-the-art agreement that protects, defends, and serves the great people of America.



... So why is it another trade war, all the same nonsense, and 51st state bullshit?

Think that might be a bit over-stated....it certainly was better than what was in place before though. There is still criticisms on the USMCA, though between us and Canada that should just be renegotiated, IMO. Again, take all the blustering with a grain of salt, this really isn't so much about trade as it is the sharp increase in illegals coming from the north....

Report Excerpt:

In 2024, there were nearly 24,000 migrant apprehensions at the U.S.-Canada northern border, a significant increase from previous years, with a notable rise in crossings through the Swanton Sector

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"We already had an agreement in place on all these issues. "The most fair and balanced trade agreement in history". The US reneged on it."

I can't find the exact words, but a scene from Lonesome Dove came to mind when I read that. The doctor is telling Call (about Augustus) that people say a lot of things they don't mean, and they certainly have their whimsies. He was talking about Augustus's deathbed request of Call to take him back to Texas. It seems to me he could have been talking about our current POTUS and how he is currently dealing with countries that have previously been our allies. Our President: he certainly has his whimsies.

Someone can feel free to set me straight on the exact wording.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Think that might be a bit over-stated....it certainly was better than what was in place before though. There is still criticisms on the USMCA, though between us and Canada that should just be renegotiated, IMO. Again, take all the blustering with a grain of salt, this really isn't so much about trade as it is the sharp increase in illegals coming from the north....

Report Excerpt:

In 2024, there were nearly 24,000 migrant apprehensions at the U.S.-Canada northern border, a significant increase from previous years, with a notable rise in crossings through the Swanton Sector

It should be overstated he was quoting Donald trump

 

[Fastrig]

Sweet Jesus, that sounds like a train wreck.

Sure does...Geesh!

 

[Fastrig]

It should be overstated he was quoting Donald trump

Y'all still don't get Trump....took me a while to do so....ignore the blustery crap and look what he's really after....he throws out the ridiculous expecting to come down to the realistic.

 

[steve white]

What trade deal are you referring to? USMCA replaces what disastrous trade deal?

If you're referring to NAFTA you might want to do some research since most trade and economy experts agree that USMCA was little more than a tweaking and a refresh of NAFTA with only 5 notable changes, 3 of which have nothing to do with tariffs, taxes, or any specific industry.. the 2 remaining issues that were tweaked are the things most often being complained about right now.. automobiles, dairy, environmental issues, digital rights/regulations, and labor laws were the focus of USMCA tweaks to NAFTA...

the labor law changes were specifically drafted into USMCA because Mexico wasn't adhering to the requirements of NAFTA.. so they tightened up the language (big deal.. no real changes have occurred even after the language was tightened up).. the digital rights piece only has to do with where companies operating in another country are allowed to store their data (basically if a Canadian firm is operating in the US it can store its data in Canada, and vice-versa).. The environmental changes simply ear marked $600M in environmental clean up in very specific places, such as the sewage spillovers from Tijuana that were harmful to San Diego..

Which leaves us with autos and dairy.. which are very clearly unbalanced.. (whether justified or not)..

If you want to go pre-NAFTA.. well.. there was the US/Canada Free Trade Agreement, and the US/Mexico Free Trade Agreement... negotiated during the Reagan administration.. that was 1988 however... Id say what constituted a reasonable trade deal more than 35 years ago very likely doesn't look anything like a reasonable trade deal today... which is why trade deals (like USMCA) get re-regotiated on a schedule or have sunset clauses built into them..

Your argument reflects a complete lack of understanding of USMCA/NAFTA..

So glad you posted this....I was getting tired of standing, saluting and singing the praises of USMCA as mentioned in the post above. After all, there's never been anything like it. Whew!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

That’s the jist of it

Perhaps the better solution is to improve Canadian dairy output, some guy named @ActionBob might be good gent to consult on this.

No need for all of this government intervention, dairy farmers more profitable and the consumer gets a break for once........nah, makes way too much sense.

 

[Brent in Az]

Excellent press conference with Speaker Johnson on the CR bill, and some other tidbits.
Worth watching if you have the time.

 

[WAB]

[emoji6]" data-quote="PHOENIX PHIL" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Perhaps the better solution is to improve Canadian dairy output, some guy named ][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]@ActionBob might be good gent to consult on this.

No need for all of this government intervention, dairy farmers more profitable and the consumer gets a break for once........nah, makes way too much sense.

Government intervention in agriculture is rampant on both sides of the border. It’s a tangled web we weave.

 

[OxfordTheCat]

Your argument reflects a complete lack of understanding of USMCA/NAFTA..

I couldn't agree more.

Those are Trump's words. Verbatim.
Not mine.

 

[YancyW]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/11/ukraine-agrees-to-us-led-ceasefire-plan-if-russia-accepts.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/11/ukraine-agrees-to-us-led-ceasefire-plan-if-russia-accepts.html

 

[SaintPanzer]

From what little time I had to read it seems like in an effort to maintain Canadian dairy production, it has resulted in high prices for the Canadian consumer. That if the market was to allow US imports with no tariffs, it would wipe out the Canadian dairy farmers. But it would result in a far cheaper product for its citizens.

Am I correct or way off base here?

Wait a minute, I'm still confused:

The Government charges the farmer for the right to market their product, and then charges a tariff on imported things in order to allow the farmer to be profitable after including the costs they charged them for the right to market their product?

Do I have that right? They really have them coming and going, don't they?

Nice dairy farm you have here. Shame if something happened to it...


I get that government ag subsidies ensure reasonable prices for all when it comes to groceries. I'm not necessarily in favor of it, but I get it. Considering how few farmers we have compared to the total population, and considering how grocery prices are instantly recognizable to all, that makes some perverted sense. But then I get lost in all these trade agreements. I grew up on the border, and I have degrees from both American and Canadian institutes of higher learning, so I've seen both sides of this. There are "issues".

PS: I've been hearing that 51st state joke since at least 1987. It's not new. In fact, I'd say it's getting pretty old.

 

[Wheels]

Really?

How? By becoming part of the US?
Surely you realize that's never going to happen.

We already had an agreement in place on all these issues. "The most fair and balanced trade agreement in history". The US reneged on it.

What good is a trade partner that doesn't abide by their own agreements?

It's been six years and I don't remember specifics and don't feel like researching them. Navarro and Lighthiezer had contingencies built into USMCA for America's benefit. I am sure most of what is going on is subject to interpretation but the wording that all parties signed granted America this discretion. Pretty sure that everything happening between America, Mexico and Canada right now on trade falls within those contingencies. I am not sure if the 25% tied to illegals and drugs falls into this or not but it probably could be interpreted as such if America wanted. Evidently Mexico understands this and is working within the agreement to patch things up. Canada is choosing not to.

Is America using their position to bully their trade partners. Probably. Did Mexico and Canada sign off on this under USMCA. Yes.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Y'all still don't get Trump....took me a while to do so....ignore the blustery crap and look what he's really after....he throws out the ridiculous expecting to come down to the realistic.

I’ve seen very similar negotiating tactics used by my nephew…he’s 5, do you think a swat of the back side would improve presidents trumps behaviour?

 

[Wheels]

I found it, I am still very confused, but now have a much better high level view.

Have a feeling @ActionBob could give us a detailed breakdown on Canadian milk and milk products tariffs when he shows back up.

 

[deewayne2003]

I don't know when you'll stop blaming the previous administration but I know you'll never blame the current administration as most of the die hard MAGA here.

So what your saying is you would like me to behave like you and blame everything from the creation of earth to date on the man that has been in office for less than 2 months?

I'm more open minded than that, I actually know that many of the policy changes being put forth will probably hurt me in one form or another; but I'm also adult enough to realize that my personal position is less important than the entire nation.

Oh, if only life was as simple as sitting back and blaming one man for all the words problems.

I sympathize with you though, it must be exhausting being a perpetual victim.

 

[Fastrig]

It's been six years and I don't remember specifics and don't feel like researching them. Navarro and Lighthiezer had contingencies built into USMCA for America's benefit. I am sure most of what is going on is subject to interpretation but the wording that all parties signed granted America this discretion. Pretty sure that everything happening between America, Mexico and Canada right now on trade falls within those contingencies. I am not sure if the 25% tied to illegals and drugs falls into this or not but it probably could be interpreted as such if America wanted. Evidently Mexico understands this and is working within the agreement to patch things up. Canada is choosing not to.

Is America using their position to bully their trade partners. Probably. Did Mexico and Canada sign off on this under USMCA. Yes.

I think 90% of this has to do with the illegal immigrants, human trafficking, and drugs coming into the States and our "trading partners" doing next to zero about it, with south border side actually helping it along.....the trade deficits are just fodder for the real issue. The tariffs are "soft diplomacy" to get it reduced drastically. Just my take on it.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Wait a minute, I'm still confused:

The Government charges the farmer for the right to market their product, and then charges a tariff on imported things in order to allow the farmer to be profitable after including the costs they charged them for the right to market their product?

Do I have that right? They really have them coming and going, don't they?

Nice dairy farm you have here. Shame if something happened to it...


I get that government ag subsidies ensure reasonable prices for all when it comes to groceries. I'm not necessarily in favor of it, but I get it. Considering how few farmers we have compared to the total population, and considering how grocery prices are instantly recognizable to all, that makes some perverted sense. But then I get lost in all these trade agreements. I grew up on the border, and I have degrees from both American and Canadian institutes of higher learning, so I've seen both sides of this. There are "issues".

PS: I've been hearing that 51st state joke since at least 1987. It's not new. In fact, I'd say it's getting pretty old.

Not exactly right the quota was originally given to the farmers. When a farmer retires he can sell his farm whole quota cattle infrastructure and all or a child could take it over whole. If not he can sell the quota to the dairy board at which time someone else could buy in for the same amount.

Also while you hold the quota it places a monetary value on the amount of market share you own and gives you equity which can be mortgaged leverage ect. Places a value on the farm beyond the value of barns and cattle.

 

[Fastrig]

I’ve seen very similar negotiating tactics used by my nephew…he’s 5, do you think a swat of the back side would improve presidents trumps behaviour?

LOL!!! Doubt it, but you could always give it a go

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I think 90% of this has to do with the illegal immigrants, human trafficking, and drugs coming into the States and our "trading partners" doing next to zero about it, with south border side actually helping it along.....the trade deficits are just fodder for the real issue. The tariffs are "soft diplomacy" to get it reduced drastically. Just my take on it.

I’ve posted the statistics before you can look back if you want to reference it. The amount of fentanyl confiscated at the Canadian boarder last year was reported in grams the Mexican boarder it was tons. You’ve got your timeline backwards the security issues were the excuse to break the trade deal.