Politics

[Wishfulthinker580]

Does this mean we should get involved in Belarus too? It’s essentially a Russian state is it not?

 

[KJE81]

Interesting.

Slovakia’s Fico announces halt of military aid to Ukraine

Bratislava will only provide humanitarian aid to Kyiv from now on, newly elected prime minister says.

www.politico.eu

He and Hungarys Orban are Europes most pro-Putin leaders but I thought they halted their military aid years ago.

Edit: Your link is from when he stopped the military aid back in 2023.

 

[KJE81]

Does this mean we should get involved in Belarus too? It’s essentially a Russian state is it not?

Belarus are in essence what Putin intended for Ukraine to be, a satellite state just like in the Soviet times.

 

[Brent in Az]

Does this mean we should get involved in Belarus too? It’s essentially a Russian state is it not?

I'm sure the warmongers would be all for it.

 

[Neophyte]

President Trump has done more for the United States, and the world, than the Kenyan In Chief or Biden ever did unless you are an enemy of the United States.

 

[John Wasmuth]

He and Hungarys Orban are Europes most pro-Putin leaders but I thought they halted their military aid years ago.

Edit: Your link is from when he stopped the military aid back in 2023.

 

[Brent in Az]

 

[Aaron N]

I generally agree with your points, but I can assure you that the US does not import Canadian oil at a discount. Oil is a global commodity and is priced as such. Canadian heavy crudes like Cold Lake price lower than lighter crudes like WTI because of quality differential, and for no other reason. Refineries that can process heavy, sour Canadian crude (Pine Bend, Wood River), cost more than twice what a refinery capable of processing WTI costs. The crude is priced to reflect this.

My beef with Canada, and it’s a situation I tried hard to correct, is that no investment has been made in Canada to process these heavy crudes other than at Irving Oil’s Saint John refinery.
Interestingly, I did the initial economic analysis on that conversion as a young engineer at Irving.

If Canada was on their game, they would have encouraged the development of a heavy oil refinery in Hardisty, AB and converted the crude oil export lines to refined products. The trade game would be dramatically different if they had had the foresight to do so.

Sorry, probably way more information than you wanted.

Also, the US has historically been the only market for heavy crude/dilbit out of Alberta. This lead to about a $20 “discount” on the price. Once the Transmountain expansion opened, that actually closed the price gap a bit due to opening the Asian markets.

 

[Aaron N]

I can assure you it is not at a discount. However, if I were the supreme dictator of Canada, a large heavy oil conversion refinery would be built in Hardisty, AB, the crude line from Hardisty to Casper, WY would be converted to refined products, and the crude export line from Hardisty to a waterborne terminal in BC would be built. This would dramatically increase Canada’s GDP and shift Canada/US trade heavily in Canada’s favor.

A refinery or upgrader? We have always been sold the line that refined products have a shelf life, and that’s why it doesn’t make sense to refine in Alberta for international markets.

 

[Red Leg]

Is it not a valid point that NATO also agreed not to expand, yet has? Prompting this whole disaster? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not on Russia’s side. They started this by invading a sovereign nation, Putin is an evil man, they’ve committed war crimes/crimes against humanity. All that. I’m just saying let’s be a little objective about the entire picture.

No. I and others have answered this about a dozen times here, but no there was no treaty, memorandum of understanding, or any other formal agreement with the Soviet Union, a state that no longer exists) to not expand NATO. I'll provide Gorbachev's quote again.

“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
The only commitment was not to put additional troops in the former GDR. That was followed until following the collapse of the USSR when the newly and truly independent states of Eastern Europe applied for and were granted Alliance membership making the condition irrelevant,

This is a pretty good article from Brookings.

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"

Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...

www.brookings.edu

 

[rigbymauser]

Sincere question…

Had Europe stepped up and made that commitment 8 years ago when Trump first raised hell about the rest of NATO not meeting its obligations and being reliant on the US for its defense… would we be where we are today?

I’m reasonably sure Putin would have still invaded… Biden, and most of Europe’s leadership were weak at the time…

But had Europe had the ability to self defend, and had more munitions on its arsenal 3 years ago when the invasion first started… would that not have been of benefit both then and now?

I can only concure in your observation. EU leadership was tough as a rotten banana 8 years ago (and perhaps always?). The fighting spirit of europe has been lost for many years. People has been lured into welfarezombies laking simple survivalskills in case of war. I am sure one could find someone opposit but they have been silenced or laughed at. Europe have an indirect responsabillity that Putin invaded Ukraine. Putin invaded because he could feel safe to do it because EU had turned into a bunch of poofters…at least that what I think Putin mindset is. Trump was right in his assesment several years back in regards to EU and now Trumps alarmclock is exploded.

 

[Red Leg]

This is the actual text of the Budapest agreement of 1994 with respect to Ukraine and it giving up its nuclear weapons. Clearly, the Russian Federation is in abject violation of the agreement. While there is an implication to do so, this is not a treaty or an alliance that compels the other participating parties to come to the aid of Ukraine in such an event. I am certain a more aggressive president would have exploited it and stopped Russia's initial test efforts in the Dombas to undermine Ukrainian sovereignty. Obama was not such a president.


The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a nonnuclear-weapon State, Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time, Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces. Confirm the following:

1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE [Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe] Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.

6.The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.

This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature. Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages.

 

[deewayne2003]

True..but still.. the US had the means but chose not to interfer more heavily when Putin invaded.

To me its even weaker that Trump will not put more military pressure on Putin..

You cannot bargain with a man like Putin and you cannot buy him..like Hitler.

Then why did your entire continent sit on their hands and do nothing for decades before the invasion?

Remember the previous posts about Germany showing up to NATO training exercises with wooden sticks painted black because they had no machine guns?

Not to mention when Trump told Germany to NOT rely on Putin for natural gas and Germany publicly laughed at him; after all if.........

"you cannot bargain with a man like Putin"

Then why did all of Europe not only bargain with him but willfully sit on their hands and have less than 2 weeks worth of munitions to fight the man you cannot bargain with?

The answer.... Because just like a spoiled petulant adult child living off their parents money, you complain about being treated like a child while taking no responsibility and the minute you suffer consequences of your own actions, the first call you make is to the parent that you complain about and demand to be bailed out of the very issue you created.

Again ....."You cannot bargain with a man like Putin" - Your words not mine

Then why does your entire continent continue to both bargain with him and refuse to even have the munitions on hand to deal with him?

 

[bowjijohn]

I’m having a good scratch around

But I’m struggling to find a nation that your Strategic Genius has not yet insulted, devalued and turned his back on

Other than his new best mate

Still

One good thing

His Christmas card list should be a bit shorter this year

… and he won’t be short of vodka ….

 

[Red Leg]

Completely agree…

The point is, everyone has some amount of shit on their shoes in this affair…

Europe (NATO members) has not met its own defense obligations for decades.. and has gladly allowed itself to become reliant on US defense investments for its safety.. which is not what the NATO contract call for… many non NATO European countries have also not kept up the pace on defense, despite knowing threats like Russia exist..

This problem was addressed at length 8 years ago, and while some NATO countries stepped up, many did not… so the problem remains…

I also agree that the US could have done substantially more early in the fight.. but we had a weak leader.. whose family had to be very careful navigating the Ukraine relationship because of very well established corruption issues…

Everyone is hating on Trump (much of it rightfully), but did Biden do us any favors? Or does anyone really believe Harris has the skills to navigate this process any better?

Then there’s Zelenskyy.. whether Trump or Vance ambushed him or not, he clearly did not handle the situation in a manner that helps Ukraine..

The time for crying is over.. everyone involved has played a part that has created a negative consequence.. there should be far less finger pointing and far more problem solving going on… or everyone involved stands to lose something greater than has already been lost…

I essentially agree. But this is now, and actions now matter. For the moment our current leadership seems happy with both finger pointing (we'll see some tonight I am sure along with further inaccurate statements about the respective levels of US and European support) and perhaps even offering substantial economic relief to Russia. Apparently this is because our President is upset the leader of an actual ally didn't comport himself to the proper standard in an Oval Office meeting? This sounds like George III (the mad one) conducting foreign policy rather than the rational defense of national interests.

It is bad enough thinking my president may be a modern Neville Chamberlain. I would hate to discover he is really another Ion Antonescu.

 

[lwaters]

I was watching the news this morning and they were talking about the price of beef and there was no way to increase the size of the herd. Well when the irrigation water runs out in western Kansas it could go backk to grass like it was back in the early part of our country. That in itself would flood the cattle market. It supported a lot of bison. Also they could open CRP to grazing. The US always had a cheap food policy so people could spend their money on luxury items. I think this will happen hearing rumors to that effect.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Yet another view from someone else, interesting how many different views there are in regards to this whole problem,
View attachment 669328

Sorry but this view is ridiculous. Being directly involved in a topic has never been a prerequisite to having an opinion on it.

This is the same argument used by the left when they tell men that they can’t have an opinion about abortion rights, which is also nonsense.

You don’t have to join the South Korean army just because you hold the opinion that the supreme leader is a dickhead.

The result of the quoted view would be that nobody should voice opinions about most subjects.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Sorry but this view is ridiculous. Being directly involved in a topic has never been a prerequisite to having an opinion on it.

This is the same argument used by the left when they tell men that they can’t have an opinion about abortion rights, which is also nonsense.

You don’t have to join the South Korean army just because you hold the opinion that the supreme leader is a dickhead.

The result of the quoted view would be that nobody should voice opinions about most subjects.

I didn’t say I agreed with it, just said it’s a different way of looking at it.

 

[V.Veritas]

I would hate to discover he is really another Ion Antonescu.

I find this final comment intriguing.
Could you please clarify what you mean by it?