Politics

[Datchew]

@Just Gina and I just sat through that whole video of the meeting with Zelinsky, Trump, Vance, Rubio.... I have my impressions based on thinking that I can comprehend a bit of the way Trump approaches issues. His life work has been making deals. He sees this Ukraine minerals deal as the very Base and most important first step of a peace deal. That was the most important big picture thing to him. He already has (had) a picture in his mind of how that plays out long term. He sees good business and prosperity, shared prosperity, as the basis to work from and as the ultimate solution.

It gets very frustrating to a business man who is pursuing the big picture deal when the minions want to pick apart all the irritating little details he just knows will work themselves out. He wants to get the deal done and then work together to make it happen versus people who want to keep looking backwards instead of forwards and dwell on all their negativity as they strive to find ways it cannot work instead of making it work.

You could just watch Trump turning from pale orange to bright red! I really feel for Trump in this. Probably even more for Rubio who was promised it was a done deal.

And Trump is taking the very realistic position that he wants to be a mediator. And therefore cannot come out on one side or the other. If you have ever been in a mediated business dispute you could understand this... No way are you going to negotiate in good faith if you feel the mediator is against you.

The same people who want to call Trump a dictator are the ones criticizing him for trying to take a mediator role instead of a dictator role.

Well said.
He's criticized for trying, for his method, and then for the outcome.

Poor Rubio looked like he wanted to crawl under a table.

 

[Pondoro]

Looks more chummy than yesterday..

 

[TTundra]

Interesting CNN w/ Scott Jennings view of what could/should have happened.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895854775901802742

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

I just finished cleaning the garage. I see this thread is still at a stalemate discussing the Ukraine War—how’s that for irony?
I’m hitting the reloading bench. You girls have fun.

 

[rigbymauser]

Looks more chummy than yesterday..

View attachment 668781

I will say Zelinskyy ought to wear a nice suit to represent a government leader. Right now he looks like a Wall Mart maneger. Ok looking but not on government level and particular when going to a toplevel meet to represent his country. Hurl the stones but its my opinion.

 

[lwaters]

I will say Zelinskyy ought to wear a nice suit to represent a government leader. Right now he looks like a Wall Mart maneger. Ok looking but not on government level and particular when going to a toplevel meet to represent his country. Hurl the stones but its my opinion.

Musk was dressed worse at the president's cabinet meeting.

 

[Datchew]

I just finished cleaning the garage. I see this thread is still at a stalemate discussing the Ukraine War—how’s that for irony?
I’m hitting the reloading bench. You girls have fun.

Ha ha ha.
My daughter and i washed and waxed the truck before the sun got hot.
Lovely day to be outside.

 

[Brent in Az]

How could they try and broker a peace deal with putin ......what he wanted made it a non starter.....I really don't understand why the people on here that go on about Europe and Ukraine not going to the negotiating table don't understand this........as said there was no point ....a waste of time....bit like trying to deal with my ex wife...both are delusional and what they want is not feasible to any rational person......and this comparison isn't me trying to make a joke....just stating a fact about trying to negotiate/make a deal with someone who isn't interested...even though they say they are.....simply no point in even trying

Why is Putin suddenly willing to let Trump broker a deal?
Does Trump have something that the EU leaders don't, or are not capable of?
What makes me hot under the collar, is that many here, and abroad, hardly ever said anything about Biden, who was indirectly responsible for this mess because of his weakness, are now continually throwing turds at Trump for trying to clean it up.
Trump may be no genius when it comes to foreign policy, but at least he is trying, which is more then the rest of the world has done.

 

[Pondoro]

Why is Putin suddenly willing to let Trump broker a deal?

Putin is pretty desperate to end the war...the army is depleted, the economy is disastrous, etc..

He wants a deal that can show him victorious in Russia..

 

[Muskox]

Musk was dressed worse at the president's cabinet meeting.

Musk is not a president of a nation.

 

[Brent in Az]

Maybe the U.S.A will see another weak Democrat whitehouse in 4 years, and Putin can attempt to gobble up another one of his neighbors? Who's next?
Too some, a much better scenario then Orange man bad trying to settle things, Im sure

 

[BSO Dave]

It’s useless to debate @BSO Dave. He knows EVERYTHING. Just ask him. Lol.

I was bowing out of this conversation for a while because the level of nonsense being posted by some here had grown so exponentially it has been hard for even me to be entertained by it...

@Scott CWO, you are one of a few exceptions... Most of the stupid B.S. you post never fails to amuse me... You should try taking a break from being cheerleader here and have an original thought of your own once in a while...

I certainly don't know everything, but I do know bullshitter when I hear one... But, you are correct about one thing... It is useless to debate me when one only brings non-factual, emotionally based rhetoric to the discussion...

 

[Muskox]

I am not sure if this has been discussed or not. Zelensky called the vice president a bitch in Ukrainian.

Zelensky did not bring his A-game.

He acts like every other Eastern European "tough guy". It was funny to see him fail. Downside is his own machismo is costing thousands of lives.

 

[ActionBob]

I've been a consistent supporter of Trumps policies, but this one is his fault, not Ukraine or Zelenski's.

The agreement gives the U.S. a 50 percent stake in revenue without obligating our nation to any Ukrainian security guarantees beyond being able to protect our economic stake.

American civilians on the ground operating a pit mine is Trumps idea of security for Ukraine?

As soon as Trump is out of office, and Putin rebuilds his military, the war will start again. The paper this agreement is written on won't even make good toilet paper.

ALL of the pressure should be on Putin. His Army attacked Ukraine. His Army is in tatters, he has no tank reserves left, no towed or self propelled artillery left, his Infantry is so depleted he has to beg North Korea for bodies to send into the meat grinder.

Now Trump accuses Ukraine of starting the war? Blames the victim for standing up to a bully?

If put in Zelenski's shoes, I'd have told Trump to pound sand. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

How does Trump keep Putin engaged in diplomacy if he come out at this point and says he'll put army boots on the ground?

I took what Trump was saying to be let's get this deal signed and move forward to the next step. He all but said once US investment, personnel and equipment is on the ground, we will protect it.

Zelenski's obviously wanted to go back to 2014 and rehash that issue.

The answer here lies within your comment. Trump now has the role as a statesman and President...he is not conducting a business deal. He mixes both roles together..

Trump cannot run the country and the foreign policy as if he still is running a business corporation.

I am afraid he will bang his head in the wall when dealing with Russia

Well so far the Statesmen and Diplomats haven't done so well.

I'm ready to give the businessman a chance.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Trump is the most powerful man on the planet. He is not known for nice and he is not known for tact. He has the power to leverage whatever he wishes and whether you blame he or Zelenskyy for the un-expected outcome of round 1, it is just the beginning. Putin will get his turn soon and I am willing to wager that it will not be smooth either. But this is certain, the process has begun and this war will end soon. Trump mentions fairness often, I would like to think that it will be a guiding principle in putting this all together. Shaping the details of the future will come as an addendum, after the shots cease he will move onto the next thing and leave Rubio and his team to dot I's and cross T's.

 

[LivingTheDream]

And the crime rates are much lower in USA..? No racial tensions..?

We will jail rapist rather than the people that make fun of the rapist. So we got that going for us.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Musk is not a president of a nation.

But he was a key figure at a high profile political meeting that was being watched around the globe.

 

[skydiver386]

How does Trump keep Putin engaged in diplomacy if he come out at this point and says he'll put army boots on the ground?

I took what Trump was saying to be let's get this deal signed and move forward to the next step. He all but said once US investment, personnel and equipment is on the ground, we will protect it.

Zelenski's obviously wanted to go back to 2014 and rehash that issue.

Well so far the Statesmen and Diplomats haven't done so well.

I'm ready to give the businessman a chance.

The problem is, Putin has no intention of letting any deal he signs with Trump stop him from getting ALL of Ukraine. As I stated above, Putin might sign, wait for a Democrat like Biden in another few years while he rebuilds his Military, then attack again. This is exactly what he has done so far. Putin has said many times, he will incorporate ALL of eastern Europe into a block like the old Soviet Union.

There is no reason not to take Putin at his word, that he want's to retake every Country that made up the old Soviet Union.

A weak U.S. President that will undoubtedly come in the future, and when Russia attacks, will simply tell those civilians to evacuate Ukraine.

My primary point is, it's Russia that is weak and has almost nothing left to fight with. Why put pressure on someone who is obviously the victim, and side with the perpetrator? Why did the U.S. vote NOT to condemn Russian aggression in Ukraine?

Kissing Putins backside, which this appears be in the eyes of people around the World, is not a good negotiating tactic. It emboldens Dictators like Putin, but it seems everyone is so hell bent on the short term goal of getting this deal, they aren't thinking of the long term consequences.

This was a BAD deal for Ukraine. If this was the first step, I can't see things getting any better.

I also think there are far worse things than war. This is exactly why the Soldiers of Ukraine are fighting so hard.

 

[Muskox]

But he was a key figure at a high profile political meeting that was being watched around the globe.

Everyone has to play by the rules they have to play by. Like I or not Elon has his own set of rules.

I have not heard any value or finances tied to Musk doing what he is doing for DOGE. He is a friend of the president, and was given the ability to be involved in the government.

He can't be bought, obviously has zero regard for anyone having anything that can be held over him.

Like him or not, he is doing what he is doing because of the circumstances in his life that brought him where he is today.

1. The Biden administration absolutely screwed with him and his companies daily. Other companies would get more money out of the deal #Boeing Strarliner for instance. Or not be held to any kind of standard. Space X got fined several hundred thousand dollars for dumping distilled water on the ground.

2. His kid got tricked into allowing a doctor to transition his older boy.

3. Any value Musk brings to the table is 100% his, he didn't get it off some political feat or bureaucratic dance. He is 100% self made. Multiple times over since he was a child.

4. His companies have been devalued by billions since he supported the president.

I don't care what he wears. He isn't a politician, he is there to fix things. Make things better for everyone on the planet.

If I was the president, I would feel the same as I do today. I would be so thankful that Elon Musk is involved with this government, he could show up in shorts and flip-flops and a tank top and I would welcome him with loving arms.

 

[Muskox]

The problem is, Putin has no intention of letting any deal he signs with Trump stop him from getting ALL of Ukraine. As I stated above, Putin might sign, wait for a Democrat like Biden in another few years while he rebuilds his Military, then attack again. This is exactly what he has done so far. Putin has said many times, he will incorporate ALL of eastern Europe into a block like the old Soviet Union.

There is no reason not to take Putin at his word, that he want's to retake every Country that made up the old Soviet Union.

A weak U.S. President that will undoubtedly come in the future, and when Russia attacks, will simply tell those civilians to evacuate Ukraine.

My primary point is, it's Russia that is weak and has almost nothing left to fight with. Why put pressure on someone who is obviously the victim, and side with the perpetrator? Why did the U.S. vote NOT to condemn Russian aggression in Ukraine?

Kissing Putins backside, which this appears be in the eyes of people around the World, is not a good negotiating tactic. It emboldens Dictators like Putin, but it seems everyone is so hell bent on the short term goal of getting this deal, they aren't thinking of the long term consequences.

This was a BAD deal for Ukraine. If this was the first step, I can't see things getting any better.

I also think there are far worse things than war. This is exactly why the Soldiers of Ukraine are fighting so hard.

The conscripts of Ukraine are being taken from their homes as soon as they turn 18 and forced to fight. Maybe younger. Ukraine is hemorrhaging young men to the meat grinder.

American tax payers have something like 300,000,000,000 USD in this war. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o

Every American alive today has personally spent $1000 for this meat grinder in Ukraine.

I spent 20 years in the military, and fought in Afghanistan, Iraq and Kosovo. I am pretty much over this BS of paying for wars just so the military industrial complex can get richer.