Politics

[flying sailor]

I think it was in mid or late 1978 or early 1979 when we heard rumors of the 3x5 stress card being used by recruits in basic training along with the banned derogatory oral degradation of trainees by DIs and no more than 10 push ups at one time as punishment when a trainee screwed up.

This was all brought about as a quick fix by TRADOC when a few newly graduated over zealous DIs were involved in the deaths of several trainees in a period of 3 or 6 (?) months.

A few years later....I found out just how bad basic training had deteriorated when another one of those assignments I was involuntarily volunteered for, but accepted to aquire my company level command time as a newly promoted captain. Assignment was One Station Unit Training (OSUT) Company Commander.

It was rather humorous as the NCOs had a behind my back agreement, that I knew about so I played along, that anytime I left my office one of the Drill Sargeants would be my "escort" as a prevention from me going "old school" on a trainee.

This is one example where good NCOs looked after their commander.

I was in USN boot camp in Feb '71. Our Company commander was an E6, in charge of 80 recruits. It was not a picnic as he was motivated to produce another Honor Company, with honors in : scholastics, PT, Inspections, drill. And much more. We did a lot of "illegal crap" drilling on Sundays, marching where no one could see us. And we had a "laying on of hands" I am not talking about healing either. I was thankful that when I got out to the fleet I was squared away. There was a time when I was known as the "Push up king" for just about any infraction. You could not do the things we went thru today.

 

[Datchew]

I was pretty much on board with the freedom caucus in the beginning but now I wish they would be regulated to footnote in history. They have become nothing more than obstructionists. IMO

Kinda agree with you.
They're like hardcore libertarians. They're thinking with the right A Priori principals but they get too far toward being an idealist to said principles and lose a bit of pragmatism.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Interesting organizational arrangement. In the battalions and brigades which I commanded or in which I served, the PBO, a WO (sometimes dual hatted as the maintenance WO), managed property. If also the maintenance WO, he would have a key role in unit readiness. Maintaining property accountability was obviously also an important responsibility. Those respective roles were, in turn, under the immediate supervision of the XO and S4. As a commander, I looked to them and subordinate commanders at company or battalion level as owning unit readiness. As far as the unit budget, I, the XO and S4 managed it. It was not a PBO responsibility.

Yes, in a normal unit under normal circumstances a WO would be working under the S-4 and the BnC is overall responsible for unit readiness.

Saying this was not under normal circumstances is a gross understatement. The WO I was replacing had only been in the position 6 months and was retiring after my 30 day, which was 15 days, transition period. There were 3 prior WOs each served less than a year in this position.

The Maintenance SNCO was the acting Maintenance Officer of a sister Bn attached to this Bn supervising both Bn maintenence sections. The S-4 and I were in a sort of Co-Bn Supply Officer status.

Another of many shortcomings and pissing off the BnC is when I told him and the Bn XO, "Sir the Battalion XO is non deploy able...." due to medical reasons.

The Bn S-1 and S-4 NCO already had it in for me. Again this is a unique situation as I was a 2LT in both a Major slot and presumably a WO2 or WO3 slot. Under the proposed military wide restructuring the Bn PBO slot would either be a Major slot and moved to Group or it would be down graded to WO slot at Battalion level. Simply I took away the S-1's promotion slot to Major within the battalion, or I took away the S-4 NCO's promotion slot to WO.

I was placed in this position by the Group and Brigade Commanders with their full support without the BnC's involvement. With the sole purpose of ".....Leuitenant you are to do whatever is necessary.....just get the battalion deployable ....." To say this is not the first time being feed to the wolves. I just didn't expect this situation to be the worst possible case scenario.

After our redeployment home the Group Commander had me reassigned, covering my ass. As there was a huge shake up in command of this battalion; officers and SNCOs were being relieved, retired (one way or another), or reassigned to other duties either within the battalion or transferred out of the battalion.

 

[wesheltonj]

I was pretty much on board with the freedom caucus in the beginning but now I wish they would be regulated to footnote in history. They have become nothing more than obstructionists. IMO

Just one from Texas.

 

[barryk]

I'm a proud parent of a Marine officer (O5) with 18 years of service.
I know other branches are having a hard time to meet their recruiting goals and lowering standards but I know for a fact Marines are still recruiting and meeting their goals without any compromise and PT scores are still a criteria if you stand any chance of advancing in rank both for officers and NCO's.

Glad to hear that....I've wondered about possible changes in the Corps.....left the Marines in 1976 as an (02)......I always felt if I didn't do anything else with my life, I earned the title of Marine....no combat duty but I served my country proudly.

 

[roverandbrew]

I’ll set aside your assertion that you know who I am and where I was ten years ago because you don’t, but you’re missing the point. The physical fitness standards for women weren’t passing scores for men at the time when integration was the name of the game. This was conveniently ignored in the name of expanding diversity.

Honestly I do not care who you were or are, as you do not care who I was or who I am now. Your lack of understanding on a lot of this conversation leads me to believe we never worked in the same organizations.

 

[roverandbrew]

You seem to be taking this personally, but I assure you it's not personal. As a cop for nearly 30 years, I have seen the damage done by these terrible DEI policies in law enforcement and the fire service. There are lots of men and women serving in LE and the Fire service who do not meet the basic physical fitness requirements to perform the job safely... Like the military, it's just as dangerous and destructive...

If you fail to see how DEI and other poison like teaching soldiers critical race theory does not have an impact on readiness or lethality, I honestly don't what else to say... The measuring device on their impact is common sense... They are unnecessary and divisive distractions which will obviously have a direct impact on their ability to perform their duties as effectively as possible.



C'mon man!
Milley and Austin have gleefully embraced woke policy for the last 4 years, although I will assume the vast majority of the soldiers have not...

As far as the best "government organization" I would agree that it probably has the best people serving in the rank and file than any other department of government, but the administration itself has been a downhill flaming shitshow for the last 4 years...

I am not taking it personal I just never saw it take place. DEI and critical race theory were never taught to any of my guys or girls. Speaking for the Army, the APFT shifted to the ACFT and MOS specific fitness tests were in the works when I retired in 2020. I am sure things have changed. I can say low moral in many organizations is because they are not deploying as much as we did from 2001-2020. They are bored and moving on to other opportunities.

 

[PARA45]

I think it was in mid or late 1978 or early 1979 when we heard rumors of the 3x5 stress card being used by recruits in basic training along with the banned derogatory oral degradation of trainees by DIs and no more than 10 push ups at one time as punishment when a trainee screwed up.

This was all brought about as a quick fix by TRADOC when a few newly graduated over zealous DIs were involved in the deaths of several trainees in a period of 3 or 6 (?) months.

A few years later....I found out just how bad basic training had deteriorated when another one of those assignments I was involuntarily volunteered for, but accepted to aquire my company level command time as a newly promoted captain. Assignment was One Station Unit Training (OSUT) Company Commander.

It was rather humorous as the NCOs had a behind my back agreement, that I knew about so I played along, that anytime I left my office one of the Drill Sargeants would be my "escort" as a prevention from me going "old school" on a trainee.

This is one example where good NCOs looked after their commander.

I joined in 1983, and we didn't have stress cards, and the TI/DIs got on our faces and called us every kind of four-letter words there was, and I believe they invented some too. They didn't hold back.

 

[BSO Dave]

I am not taking it personal I just never saw it take place. DEI and critical race theory were never taught to any of my guys or girls. Speaking for the Army, the APFT shifted to the ACFT and MOS specific fitness tests were in the works when I retired in 2020. I am sure things have changed. I can say low moral in many organizations is because they are not deploying as much as we did from 2001-2020. They are bored and moving on to other opportunities.

Before dismissing someone else's post, you should have acknowledged that you cannot speak to what has happened since you retired in 2020.... The fact is that physical standards for the various military branches have been experimented with in trials for 2 decades. Their attempts to adhere to 1 unisex set of physical standards for 2 genders has always resulted in colossal failure for multiple reasons... Why? Because for 12 of the last 16 years, the Pentagon has been run by a woke idiocrasy that refuses to acknowledge that not all human beings, regardless of sex, are not the same physically.

If they want to play this game of pretend, they should limit those individuals (regardless of gender) with lower physical abilities to non-combat roles... Anything less is jeopardizing the life & safety of those individuals themselves as well as the unit in which they serve...

As far as DEI, the mass infusion occurred during Brandons' term where the Pentagon reportedly allotted nearly $300 million over 4 years for DEI initiatives to be implemented...

DEI Is Distracting Our Military From Its Primary Task

The military has one job: keeping America safe from foreign enemies by focusing defense spending on capability and lethality. Under the Biden administration, however, military spending is increasingly focused on diversity, equity and inclusion efforts, which waste money and divide troops—posing...

www.heritage.org

From the official website of the U.S. Army... It's embarrassing...

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion: Pillars for Empowerment

“It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept and celebrate those differences.” This quote from Audre Lorde, an Am...

www.army.mil

Even before Brandons' term, DEI influenced policy and critical race theory ideologies have been slowly but surely introduced into policy. Critical race theory has been part of the curriculum as either "suggested" or "required" at West Point and many more military service academies all over the country... The practice was so egregious that it prompted a bill to Congress by Rep. Mark Green...

Rep. Mark Green Introduces Amendment to Prohibit Teaching of Critical Race Theory at Military Service Academies

markgreen.house.gov

The good news is with Hegseth's confirmation, all of this lunacy ends, and DEI and CRT get thrown into the trash heap where they belong, and meritocracy becomes the universal standard in the U.S. Military...

 

[gbflyer]

Before dismissing someone else's post, you should have acknowledged that you cannot speak to what has happened since you retired in 2020.... The fact is that physical standards for the various military branches have been experimented with in trials for 2 decades. Their attempts to adhere to 1 unisex set of physical standards for 2 genders has always resulted in colossal failure for multiple reasons... Why? Because for 12 of the last 16 years, the Pentagon has been run by a woke idiocrasy that refuses to acknowledge that not all human beings, regardless of sex, are not the same physically.

If they want to play this game of pretend, they should limit those individuals (regardless of gender) with lower physical abilities to non-combat roles... Anything less is jeopardizing the life & safety of those individuals themselves as well as the unit in which they serve...

As far as DEI, the mass infusion occurred during Brandons' term where the Pentagon reportedly allotted nearly $300 million over 4 years for DEI initiatives to be implemented...

DEI Is Distracting Our Military From Its Primary Task

The military has one job: keeping America safe from foreign enemies by focusing defense spending on capability and lethality. Under the Biden administration, however, military spending is increasingly focused on diversity, equity and inclusion efforts, which waste money and divide troops—posing...

www.heritage.org

From the official website of the U.S. Army... It's embarrassing...

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion: Pillars for Empowerment

“It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept and celebrate those differences.” This quote from Audre Lorde, an Am...

www.army.mil

Even before Brandons' term, DEI influenced policy and critical race theory ideologies have been slowly but surely introduced into policy. Critical race theory has been part of the curriculum as either "suggested" or "required" at West Point and many more military service academies all over the country... The practice was so egregious that it prompted a bill to Congress by Rep. Mark Green...

Rep. Mark Green Introduces Amendment to Prohibit Teaching of Critical Race Theory at Military Service Academies

markgreen.house.gov

The good news is with Hegseth's confirmation, all of this lunacy ends, and DEI and CRT get thrown into the trash heap where they belong, and meritocracy becomes the universal standard in the U.S. Military...

Hopefully they can get some training ammo as well. My cousins kid going through Airborne was back for Christmas. Their handgun training has been delayed due to no ammo. Couple that with no toilet paper, no chow, (they have to eat off base a lot on their own dime), DEI, it’s amazing those young people are interested at all.

 

[roverandbrew]

Before dismissing someone else's post, you should have acknowledged that you cannot speak to what has happened since you retired in 2020.... The fact is that physical standards for the various military branches have been experimented with in trials for 2 decades. Their attempts to adhere to 1 unisex set of physical standards for 2 genders has always resulted in colossal failure for multiple reasons... Why? Because for 12 of the last 16 years, the Pentagon has been run by a woke idiocrasy that refuses to acknowledge that not all human beings, regardless of sex, are not the same physically.

If they want to play this game of pretend, they should limit those individuals (regardless of gender) with lower physical abilities to non-combat roles... Anything less is jeopardizing the life & safety of those individuals themselves as well as the unit in which they serve...

As far as DEI, the mass infusion occurred during Brandons' term where the Pentagon reportedly allotted nearly $300 million over 4 years for DEI initiatives to be implemented...

DEI Is Distracting Our Military From Its Primary Task

The military has one job: keeping America safe from foreign enemies by focusing defense spending on capability and lethality. Under the Biden administration, however, military spending is increasingly focused on diversity, equity and inclusion efforts, which waste money and divide troops—posing...

www.heritage.org

From the official website of the U.S. Army... It's embarrassing...

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion: Pillars for Empowerment

“It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept and celebrate those differences.” This quote from Audre Lorde, an Am...

www.army.mil

Even before Brandons' term, DEI influenced policy and critical race theory ideologies have been slowly but surely introduced into policy. Critical race theory has been part of the curriculum as either "suggested" or "required" at West Point and many more military service academies all over the country... The practice was so egregious that it prompted a bill to Congress by Rep. Mark Green...

Rep. Mark Green Introduces Amendment to Prohibit Teaching of Critical Race Theory at Military Service Academies

markgreen.house.gov

The good news is with Hegseth's confirmation, all of this lunacy ends, and DEI and CRT get thrown into the trash heap where they belong, and meritocracy becomes the universal standard in the U.S. Military...

I am dismissive based off what i saw prior to retirement in 2020 and i still work with DOD daily as an IC. I will cease comments as clearly google has served the last 30 years supporting the US Army / the Joint Force. Hopefully the moves by the former National Guard Major solve the woke problem in DOD and tens of thousands of white christian males who are physical fit flock to the recruiters ten fold what they are not to meet our nations requirements.

 

[roverandbrew]

Hopefully they can get some training ammo as well. My cousins kid going through Airborne was back for Christmas. Their handgun training has been delayed due to no ammo. Couple that with no toilet paper, no chow, (they have to eat off base a lot on their own dime), DEI, it’s amazing those young people are interested at all.

There is zero shooting in Airborne School and never has been since its inception in the 1940s. In fact very few service members will ever be issued a pistol from an arms room. Not sure of the issue.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Nope! No such thing as WOKE in the military. I don’t know where you guys are getting that from.

Oh maybe from their recruiting ads. Training syllabus, etc etc

military 2 moms recruiting ad - Google Search

 

[roverandbrew]

I guess I am curious...Is the military woke because Generals wake up in the morning and want to change things.....Politicians, we or the majority voted into office decided is was important....or there are not enough "normal" kids volunteering.

 

[Altitude sickness]

The Civilians namely Obama

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I guess I am curious...Is the military woke because Generals wake up in the morning and want to change things.....Politicians, we or the majority voted into office decided is was important....or there are not enough "normal" kids volunteering.

rolls downhill. The top of the hill is located on Pennsylvania Ave in D.C.

 

[Doubleplay]

Nope! No such thing as WOKE in the military. I don’t know where you guys are getting that from.

Oh maybe from their recruiting ads. Training syllabus, etc etc

Let's assume the military is hiring woke people among others which I believe they do.
Do you think woke people will perform worse and will diminish the effectiveness of our forces?
On the same token let's assume you hiring a software engineer, would you reject the best candidate because he/she is woke?
Just curious if you believe we should hire people based on their political and religious believes and not even target the others?

 

[roverandbrew]

So politicians, we or the majority of Americans elected, made decisions not in line with our values. We decided not another politician like Obama and voted Trump. I served in a senior position under Trump at a critical time in Afghanistan. Truly nothing better happened.

Americans said no more Trump and voted Biden. How did Biden get into office. I was always taught to understand the second and third order effects of my decision and to have a risk mitigation plan in place to minimize the impacts. Also. setting the conditions for sweeping change increases the odds of success. Did Trump pave the way for Biden?

We did not like Biden so now we are back to Trump. Hopefully Trumps understands the mistakes he made that lead to Biden and does not repeat them for the nation's sake. From what I am reading and hearing straight from his mouth he has not learned. He is doubling down on ridiculous. Draining the swamp can be good if you do not open the gates at the zoo and re-populate it.

Hopefully everything so far is a stunt and not indicative of he will lead our great nation.

 

[Hunt anything]

Let's assume the military is hiring woke people among others which I believe they do.
Do you think woke people will perform worse and will diminish the effectiveness of our forces?
On the same token let's assume you hiring a software engineer, would you reject the best candidate because he/she is woke?
Just curious if you believe we should hire people based on their political and religious believes and not even target the others?

I think many people just don’t like that many woke people in all walks of life try to influence others to their cause. If you don’t comply you’re labeled a hater, homophobic, anti trans among other things. I for one don’t give a crap about the private lives of others but don’t force your thoughts on me and I won’t force mine on you so to speak. If they can perform their job well I couldn’t care less, just do your job as well as you can and go home.

 

[roverandbrew]

Let's assume the military is hiring woke people among others which I believe they do.
Do you think woke people will perform worse and will diminish the effectiveness of our forces?
On the same token let's assume you hiring a software engineer, would you reject the best candidate because he/she is woke?
Just curious if you believe we should hire people based on their political and religious believes and not even target the others?

We often forget internal demographics. Combat Arms, Combat Support. and Combat Service Support are real and draw certain individuals. I could care less who cooks my chow, maintains my electronics, or does my admin. As long as they are professionals and have a passion for their job. The numbers of woke or females rapidly dwindle the closer we get to Combat Arms. The limited numbers that do generally have minimal real world impact. Maybe an inconvenience. There are much bigger issues to deal with. Could some of this threads "unworthy service members" fill support billets freeing up others for combat arms