Politics

[mdwest]

The good news (assuming a win) is trump claims one of his priorities is to gut the govt of unnecessary bureaucrats and have policy and procedure overhauls at every level… he wants Elon Musk to head up a commission that would oversee this task…

If he only accomplished that one thing it would be a huge net positive for the country

 

[WAB]

The good news (assuming a win) is trump claims one of his priorities is to gut the govt of unnecessary bureaucrats and have policy and procedure overhauls at every level… he wants Elon Musk to head up a commission that would oversee this task…

If he only accomplished that one thing it would be a huge net positive for the country

I truly hope he wins and he tasks Elon Musk with the job. Musk is one of the few people that I believe could effectively take this on. My concern is that Trump did almost nothing to address this in his first term, so we are betting on him making a radical change in focus.

One thing for certain, the cackling fence post will not just not take it on, she will make it worse.

 

[freefall]

This is spot on. The EPA is a great example of an agency that has instituted regulations well beyond the intent of the law. What is even worse is that the different regions interpret and enforce these regulations differently.

I laugh when I hear this ‘drain the swamp’ mantra because the folks chanting it don’t even know where the problem is. Our greatest problem lies with progressive agendas buried within the administrative branch of the government. If Trump is re-elected, he would do well to spend less time fighting with congress and more time dealing with his administration, an area he would have vast authority over as the chief executive of this branch. I am sick and tired of presidents coming in, making a few figurehead changes, and completely ignoring the vast cultural cancer that needs to be addressed within their organization.

My friend, your story has touched my heart.
The problem (as I see it) lies in the massive layers of protections that nearly any government employee has against termination for nearly any cause, right up to malfeasance, malingering, and outright insubordination. Examples are legion.
Government employee unions are a tool of the devil, even Liberal Saint FDR thought so.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I do not believe that I was confused about anything. I was merely pointing out holding up Trump as the symbol of executive order purity is rather a stretch. That said, I agree, that the legislative branch has given up far too much power to the executive regardless of party.

Please to point out the section where I held up Trump as the symbol of executive order purity. I had thought I implied RINO.

 

[SaintPanzer]

One thing a lot of people are unaware of is that while Congress makes/changes the laws the Executive branch specifically each individual department writes up the rules on implementing those laws. Hence, why we end up with regulations that are contrary to the original intent of the law or extra burden on implementation. EPA is a great example of that in stretching the original intent of the law in many of their regulations.

Oh, I am quite well aware of this. In fact, that's my point!

The Executive has the power to rein in these regulations. The individual departments work for him! EPA is a good example. The Director of the EPA is appointed by the President, and then confirmed by the Senate. If the EPA is writing regulations contrary to the law, it is the President's job to correct (and there is where your executive orders come in!). If the President appoints someone who has stated he will make new regulations that are contrary to the legislation, the Senate is under no obligation to confirm.

That is how the system is designed to work. I agree it does not always work that way. But that's the point. Tell me you're going to correct Agency overreach via the system? Conservative. You may even be a Republican. Tell me you're simply going to appoint someone who is going to come up with different regulations that are not authorized by the legislation, but are better than the other guy's regulation... RINO.

 

[Red Leg]

Please to point out the section where I held up Trump as the symbol of executive order purity.

If I misunderstood your initial post, I apologize.

 

[WAB]

My friend, your story has touched my heart.
The problem (as I see it) lies in the massive layers of protections that nearly any government employee has against termination for nearly any cause, right up to malfeasance, malingering, and outright insubordination. Examples are legion.
Government employee unions are a tool of the devil, even Liberal Saint FDR thought so.

Unions do not prevent leadership from terminating problem employees, they simply make leadership do their jobs properly as they do so. I am speaking from experience in turning around one of the largest chemical complexes in the US. My entire management team told me exactly what you just stated. I said horseshit, you are going to put these employees, who we had identified, on notice that they have three months to address their performance problems or they will be terminated. We did so. The union president became one of my closest friends through that process. We took that plant from the lowest performing asset in a fortune 100 company to its highest performing asset in 18 months. When I began, the backlog of grievances appeared endless. When I left there were none. We negotiated 3 union contracts during my tenure and paid the highest bonuses employees had ever received. This was possible because performance and profits went through the roof and we negotiated contracts on the principle that success needed to be shared fairly with those who made it possible.

Every workforce in the USA (with the possible exception of the armed forces where I have very little knowledge) has the right of representation if they so choose. Choosing to be represented does not make them evil, or in any way reduce your responsibility to them as their employer and leader.

I apologize for the long response. I cared deeply for my organization and felt
It my duty to ensure that they won.
A few problem employees can never be allowed to drag an organization down. It is a
Herculean task at the federal level, but it can be done, and it must start with a leader who will lead.

 

[freefall]

Bravo!!

 

[wesheltonj]

Unions do not prevent leadership from terminating problem employees, they simply make leadership do their jobs properly as they do so. I am speaking from experience in turning around one of the largest chemical complexes in the US. My entire management team told me exactly what you just stated. I said horseshit, you are going to put these employees, who we had identified, on notice that they have three months to address their performance problems or they will be terminated. We did so. The union president became one of my closest friends through that process. We took that plant from the lowest performing asset in a fortune 100 company to its highest performing asset in 18 months. When I began, the backlog of grievances appeared endless. When I left there were none. We negotiated 3 union contracts during my tenure and paid the highest bonuses employees had ever received. This was possible because performance and profits went through the roof and we negotiated contracts on the principle that success needed to be shared fairly with those who made it possible.

Every workforce in the USA (with the possible exception of the armed forces where I have very little knowledge) has the right of representation if they so choose. Choosing to be represented does not make them evil, or in any way reduce your responsibility to them as their employer and leader.

I apologize for the long response. I cared deeply for my organization and felt
It my duty to ensure that they won.
A few problem employees can never be allowed to drag an organization down. It is a
Herculean task at the federal level, but it can be done, and it must start with a leader who will lead.

Except most have a property right in their job. That does not exist in the private sector.

 

[franzfmdavis]

I read this thread regularly out of interest, but rarely (perhaps never) contribute.

It reminds me of the couples I would see arguing during the 22 years I worked as a divorce lawyer.

They always both claimed to have the welfare of the family as their primary concern, but spent most of the time misunderstanding each other and focused on highlighting their differences through intellectual gymnastics and veiled insults, eventually ruining the thing they claimed to care the most for as a result.

There was very little energy spent on exploring common ground or acceptable compromises. As a result they both eventually ‘lost’ through the divisive processes they chose (family, assets, time, respect) and often their children suffered the most.

The comments in this thread show clearly that most everyone here wants:

1. To feel safe in their home, neighborhood, community etc;
2. To have the opportunity to work and provide for themselves and their loved ones;
3. To be healthy;
4. To pursue their interests and enjoy their hobbies;
5. To express their opinions;
6. To be free to worship who they want, or not;
7. To be able to decide where and how to live;
8. To be able to congregate with whom they choose;
9. To avoid living in chaos, turmoil and war.
10. To have privacy;
11. To travel freely;
12. To have their belongings, investments and assets safe;
13. To have the freedom to live as they choose;
14. Etc.

Notwithstanding, most of the discussions on this thread are directed against one another rather than in pursuit of the same goals. They sometimes stay polite, but often devolve into anger and insults.

This phenomenon is becoming commonplace in our American family.

It is a genuine privilege that we have the freedom to discuss and express our opinions, but which of our common problems have been solved in the currently 2,173 pages of this discussion thread - very few if any.

Instead, it more likely contributes to the greatest threat to our country, which in my opinion is that we are increasingly becoming the “disUnited” States of America.

Their is no benefit or value in becoming a dysfunctional or dissolved American family. Those who promote the concept of civil war and division should reflect on the actual implications. This is what the true enemies of the USA want - the easiest path to victory for our enemies is for us to do the fighting for them!

Please lets all remember that we are countrymen (and even when we are from different countries - we are still on the same small tiny dot of a planet in a giant universe). We are all in this together.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Vice President Harris is now a border law enforcement hawk.

And now says we are a sovereign nation with borders and laws. So both her and Joe Biden tout their vast legislative experience and how they are going to get so much legislation passed in the next term. Why couldn’t they get the border bill passed?

She is blaming Trump, a private citizen for blocking the bill. so if that’s all it takes, why won’t Trump block all of their future bills.

That’s the phony politics part of it. The reality is.
Trump and the Republicans were against the bill because it codified into law, allowing illegal immigration.
the bill required the Homeland Security secretary to exercise this authority if there are:

• An average of 5,000 encounters a day during seven consecutive days, or
• 8,500 encounters on any single day.

In December 2023, the latest month with available data, there were 302,034 encounters at the southern border. The daily average of 9,743 encounters would have triggered the emergency authority.

so after 8500 are (processed. Not deported) it would’ve been triggered. simply amazing. Why not set the trigger at zero knowing that some are of course going to get through. the law should be enforced at zero not 8500.
So as typical with politicians they claim the bill wasn’t perfect but better than what we have. I disagree.

So my roof is leaking and I’m so lame. I can only fix 60% of it. I’m going to call that a win?

If the House, Senate, Homeland security, Harris & Biden were serious. The law would’ve said 0% illegal immigration. Of course the law would not have stopped all illegal immigration.

What other law in the US do we put a cap on breaking every day? would we allow 5000 carjackings a day before we enforce the law?

So for those blaming trump for sinking the bill.

Maybe we should be asking the left to bring a serious bill, not codify into law. breaking the law

 

[Altitude sickness]

Trump once again Makes several ridiculous statements where supporters cringe and shake their heads.

Roughly translated, he said Biden became mentally handicapped but Harris was born that way

Many mentally handicapped people are insulted that he is putting Harris up near their intelligence level or capacity.

And he also suggested turning law-enforcement loose for a day to beat up shoplifters

Well, sitting around a fire with a few drinks you might think these are good ideas but a person running for president needs to be a little more serious

 

[BSO Dave]

Then I would urge you to not read my posts if they are so objectionable.

And you are correct. I made the error of again responding to one of your posts directed to me.

Take it easy Francis... You are taking your ball and going home again...

You didn't read what I said... I personally enjoy and learn from our exchanges even though we often have widely varying perspectives on some issues... If you want to ignore me that's certainly your prerogative, but I will continue to engage every time I disagree or hear "BS" regardless of who the author happens to be...

Whether you are able to admit it or not, you are very defensive of your posts as if they were the word of God... Trust me that they are not... Your opinions are most often insightful and informed, but certainly not Gospel... And, whether it is intentional or not, your replies to those who disagree are sometimes arrogant and condescending... That observation was not meant to be insulting or provocative, but merely acknowledging fact... My last post you you was to remind you of that in the event you wanted to reflect upon it... From this last reply to me, I assume that you do not, and that is unfortunate...

 

[Datchew]

Happy birthday!

I totally missed that.
Happy birthday!

Just in time for archery season on whitetail!

 

[BSO Dave]

Over 1200 employees reported to me in corporate America. I suspect I have a better feel for the working class across a broad political spectrum than many here.

Not replying to you directly @Red Leg ....My reply is for others who may find interest in my take on these assertions...

Having 1200 working class people under you doesn't make you one of them... It makes you a boss of 1200 workers... You cannot have a "feel" for what it is like to be working class if you are not part of the working class... Failure to understand that is the problem...

With respect to that, I would urge you to reflect on the fact that the people you refer to as the "majority" of Americans, about whom you assume I know nothing and about which you seem to believe you have a perfect understanding, make up only roughly 50% of the electorate - of all classes. In other words, half the country absolutely rejects everything about which you and most others here are complaining. I would suggest we would all benefit by thinking on that for a bit.

Not so, and here's why...

When I say "majority" of all working-class Americans, I mean the majority of ALL working-class Americans... The "other half" of the electorate that you claim rejects everything that we are complaining about is ironically suffering from the exact same bad policies and economic hardship that this Administration has created... We all pay the same taxes and the same $3.50 a gallon for gas... The fact that they are too uninformed or naive' to recognize these facts is on them... Their collective heads in the sand doesn't change the facts...

I know of what I speak because I have worked with a great many peers who traditionally vote democrat because they have been conditioned to do so. They make the same salaries and earn the same benefits a me but lack the understanding of how bad policies affect their abilities to earn a livelihood... I have had lengthy discussions trying to inform those who would listen, but others that I have failed to reach reject my arguments based on either racial divisions or the misguided notion that democrats are traditionally the "party of the working class" or both...

The power of the liberal elites, democrat union executives, and the MSM have over the "other half" of the working class cannot be understated.... This is an integral part of the divide & conquer strategy by these liberal elites aimed toward the working class, and it's been very effective to date...

 

[Red Leg]

Not replying to you directly @Red Leg ....My reply is for others who may find interest in my take on these assertions...

Having 1200 working class people under you doesn't make you one of them... It makes you a boss of 1200 workers... You cannot have a "feel" for what it is like to be working class if you are not part of the working class... Failure to understand that is the problem...



Not so, and here's why...

When I say "majority" of all working-class Americans, I mean the majority of ALL working-class Americans... The "other half" of the electorate that you claim rejects everything that we are complaining about is ironically suffering from the exact same bad policies and economic hardship that this Administration has created... We all pay the same taxes and the same $3.50 a gallon for gas... The fact that they are too uninformed or naive' to recognize these facts is on them... Their collective heads in the sand doesn't change the facts...

I know of what I speak because I have worked with a great many peers who traditionally vote democrat because they have been conditioned to do so. They make the same salaries and earn the same benefits a me but lack the understanding of how bad policies affect their abilities to earn a livelihood... I have had lengthy discussions trying to inform those who would listen, but others that I have failed to reach reject my arguments based on either racial divisions or the misguided notion that democrats are traditionally the "party of the working class" or both...

The power of the liberal elites, democrat union executives, and the MSM have over the "other half" of the working class cannot be understated.... This is an integral part of the divide & conquer strategy by these liberal elites aimed toward the working class, and it's been very effective to date...

The people you know who vote democrat do so not because they are capable of making independent decisions like you, but because they have been conditioned to do so or they "lack the understanding" to vote in their self-interests (and I am condescending). Moreover, that other half of the working class electorate are zombies in the thrall of elites, who you in turn accuse of not understanding anything about the working class ........

With respect to not understanding the folks that worked for and with me, that is simply not so. There are elitists is industry and the military. As a rule, they fail in both cultures because they generate no loyalty within their organizations. Most of us, work very hard at understanding and being in touch with the teams that make up both military and corporate enterprises. I certainly did, and that is true of every successful peer or superior I have known and organization or unit in which I served, commanded or led.

 

[WAB]

Not replying to you directly @Red Leg ....My reply is for others who may find interest in my take on these assertions...

Having 1200 working class people under you doesn't make you one of them... It makes you a boss of 1200 workers... You cannot have a "feel" for what it is like to be working class if you are not part of the working class... Failure to understand that is the problem...



Not so, and here's why...

When I say "majority" of all working-class Americans, I mean the majority of ALL working-class Americans... The "other half" of the electorate that you claim rejects everything that we are complaining about is ironically suffering from the exact same bad policies and economic hardship that this Administration has created... We all pay the same taxes and the same $3.50 a gallon for gas... The fact that they are too uninformed or naive' to recognize these facts is on them... Their collective heads in the sand doesn't change the facts...

I know of what I speak because I have worked with a great many peers who traditionally vote democrat because they have been conditioned to do so. They make the same salaries and earn the same benefits a me but lack the understanding of how bad policies affect their abilities to earn a livelihood... I have had lengthy discussions trying to inform those who would listen, but others that I have failed to reach reject my arguments based on either racial divisions or the misguided notion that democrats are traditionally the "party of the working class" or both...

The power of the liberal elites, democrat union executives, and the MSM have over the "other half" of the working class cannot be understated.... This is an integral part of the divide & conquer strategy by these liberal elites aimed toward the working class, and it's been very effective to date...

I completely disagree with your first point. I grew up on a farm wearing my ass out every day. I worked hard, became a chemical engineer, and advanced to lead major industrial assets and subsequently the division of a fortune 100 company. As a general manager I hit every control room and maintenance shop every morning before dealing with any corporate crap. The union president of my last industrial asset became a shooting buddy and one of my best friends.

You can absolutely know, relate to, and understand the people working for you if you make an effort to do so. To claim otherwise is arrogance in the other direction.

 

[Altitude sickness]

IMHO, Having 1200 employees still qualifies as the working class.

I consider the Elites as those that do not work. Have never held lower positions in any field. Trust fund babies, Ivy League media and politicians also fit into my definition as what is called the “Elites”. Which technically they of course are far from Elite.

Working your way up and leading employees does not mean you no longer understand the struggle. I know well grounded men that came from the trenches and are now wealthy. They are also more generous than most. And employee a lot of blue collar people.

In this discussion and context. What we call “Elites” are parasites that exist without producing anything. Legacy Media, many politicians come to mind.

 

[BSO Dave]

I completely disagree with your first point. I grew up on a farm wearing my ass out every day. I worked hard, became a chemical engineer, and advanced to lead major industrial assets and subsequently the division of a fortune 100 company. As a general manager I hit every control room and maintenance shop every morning before dealing with any corporate crap. The union president of my last industrial asset became a shooting buddy and one of my best friends.

I respect and commend your personal experience. However, yours is not typical and not representative of what most working-class folks deal with in terms of personal relatability with upper-level corporate executives whether it be on the labor or management side...

I'm not sure if you are also making the inference that all union executives are relatable and represent the best interest of the worker, but I can assure you that, by and large, they do not...

With the exception of the teachers' unions, most labor unions are evenly split between democrat, republican and independent. With specific regard to represented LE and fire, the vast majority of members lean conservative and traditionally vote against the urge from union leadership to vote democrat... Even the Teamsters have publicly revealed that 60% of their membership will vote for Trump even though the union itself will not officially endorse either candidate... That is not leadership in the best interest of the workers... Sad...

You can absolutely know, relate to, and understand the people working for you if you make an effort to do so. To claim otherwise is arrogance in the other direction.

If you took my assertions as arrogant, you haven't taken my point... If you have a different personal experience, that's great, but it's not typical based on my experiences in working with hundreds of labor unions and their executive counterparts across the country... I have spent 25 years on the labor side representing LE in labor-management negotiations. I have extensive experience dealing with every type of executive and appointed bureaucrat serving in a leadership role on the management side on both local and national levels. I have negotiated with HR directors, City Managers, CFO's and their Attorneys...The one thing all these execs have in common is that they all think that they are the smartest person in the room... The other thing they all have in common is that in their smug arrogance, it never occurs to them is that they all can't be right... In general, they regard union representatives on a local level as uneducated dummies who are not on the same intellectual level with them... Unbeknownst to many of them, 99% of the time they are terribly mistaken. Furthermore, their main interest in the bottom line. Their only objective is how to get the job done for the least amount possible regardless of quality, safety, or the well-being of the workers...

I'm not suggesting that there are not great bosses in every aspect of labor and industry who generally care about their employees. But, unless they have come up from the working class themselves like you for example, they cannot claim true relatability to the workers no matter how much they would like to think so...

 

[Altitude sickness]

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