Politics

[Louis Toadvine]

I started my first job in 1990 at $36K. I was living okay on that, but certainly didn't have money to burn.

$36K was a pretty strong entry-level wage in 1990. Factoring for inflation, that's quite a bit higher than the average entry-level engineer today.

$36K in 1990 = $88,778 as of June 2024 using a CPI calculator - https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=36000&year1=199001&year2=202406)

Average entry-level engineer salary in the U.S. as of summer 2024: The below sources show a mean entry-level salary across different industries of $68,018, with a higher average in the more technical industries like aerospace, chemical, and electrical. https://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/

Obviously this is not a perfect analysis, as not all areas of engineering are equal, and using an average wage is difficult because the U.S. is a huge country with a large variety of local averages and vastly different costs of living from place-to-place. But I'm guessing you were hired into one of the more technical engineering roles and/or were a sought after (above average) candidate.

 

[Nyati]

Sounds like we could all use a diversion of thought--here's one for you. Around 1936 the right wingers in Spain felt they had been cheated out of an election. Already unhappy and feeling disenfranchised they reacted violently to an incident in which three of their political leaders were supposedly killed by police. Unbeknownst to them the police were not involved--leftists posing as police were intentionally inciting them. They took the bait and a civil war ensued. Neighborhoods armed themselves, etc. The rest is in the history books.
Fast forward to 2020. An election was stolen, Jan 6 sentiments were equal if not harsher than those motivating the Antifa led riots. WHAT IF it is all as manipulated as the 1936 Spanish civil war. Could we believe that the left is being manipulated by socialists while the right is being inflamed by manipulated events? What might have transpired if Trump had been assassinated? Our own civil war, perhaps? Who would benefit from that the most? Suppose Russia/China/North Korea/Iran wanted to attack us--would there ever be a better time than during a US civil war? Not only weakened, but if attacked from without, confused about where the attack came from and reacting as if it were from fellow citizens?

I don´t participate in this sub-forum, but in this case I have to speak up, as you are stating facts which are not true, not blaming you, but your sources, which must be a bit to the left,

The most important incident, (just one of many), was the murder of José Calvo Sotelo, a well known politician, who was arrested at his home 13 July 1936, by the Guardia de Asalto (Police) in uniform and official vehicle, they were led by a Captain of the Guardia Civil (Militarised Police), by the name of Condés. He was then shot three times in the head in the vehicle, and thrown to the sidewalk.

These are the facts, which you may find in history books, some written by very serious US historians.

The Spanish Civil War was a very complicated conflict, don´t believe everything you hear, go to reliable sources.

 

[mark-hunter]

It is interesting discussion above.
Generally speaking this is how western professionals loose job around the world, and in many industries.

 

[sgt_zim]

I guess my point is that the runaway inflation didn't start with him and he couldn't count on support from the movers and shakers in his own party. He was not a great president. I went from Democrat to Independent ( leaning Republican) after his presidency.

You're right. The inflation start with EO 6102. FDR sold the gold he'd stolen at nearly twice the price they'd paid when it was confiscated.

 

[Tanks]

So you pay engineers $2K per month above the local rates then? For example if in Venezuela and engineer was making $40,000 a year on average, they'd get paid $40K plus an additional $24K per year if they came to work for you, correct?

No, the $2K/month is above the local rates of about $1.5K a month. BTW, for a 6-day work week.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

$36K was a pretty strong entry-level wage in 1990. Factoring for inflation, that's quite a bit higher than the average entry-level engineer today.

$36K in 1990 = $88,778 as of June 2024 using a CPI calculator - https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=36000&year1=199001&year2=202406)

Average entry-level engineer salary in the U.S. as of summer 2024: The below sources show a mean entry-level salary across different industries of $68,018, with a higher average in the more technical industries like aerospace, chemical, and electrical. https://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/

Obviously this is not a perfect analysis, as not all areas of engineering are equal, and using an average wage is difficult because the U.S. is a huge country with a large variety of local averages and vastly different costs of living from place-to-place. But I'm guessing you were hired into one of the more technical engineering roles and/or were a sought after (above average) candidate.

Electrical engineer. I was in a program in college where I worked at IBM as sort of an intern. By the time I was done with my degree, which took 5 calendar years, I had 1.5 years of experience. The experience level helped to boost my starting salary a bit.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

No, the $2K/month is above the local rates of about $1.5K a month. BTW, for a 6-day work week.

So $3.5K / month total That equates to $42K / year (3.5K x 12). Yah....you're not going to get anywhere close to that from a U.S. based engineer. Nor should you given the cost of living here. It's no wonder that the number of engineers this country has been producing from its universities has been dropping.

And I sure didn't go to school to work on a regular basis 6 days a week. Perhaps I'm greedy and lazy. But then again I quite often put in 60-70 hours / week.

 

[Tanks]

...

What I can for sure tell you is that I'd never go to work as even a newly graduated engineer for the pay that some in other countries do. It's not because I'm greedy, it's a question of economics, I can't compete in cost of living to these other places.

If you offered me $32K per year at this time as a newly graduated engineer much less an experienced one and I'd spit in your eye. I didn't go to college for a degree in something many don't have the talent for to get paid that. I started my first job in 1990 at $36K. I was living okay on that, but certainly didn't have money to burn.
...

I think you are conflating foreign citizens working in a foreign country with a US citizen working in a foreign country.

Before the days of Internet, I had to have my guys supervising overseas. Salary was US salary plus a 25% bonus plus all living expenses including a car. I even went as far as flying families down if they forgo trips back home which was every three months.

Interestingly I had a harder time convincing guys to go to UK (Swindon) than Argentina or Brazil for projects. And no one wanted to stay in South Korea for more than a few weeks.

 

[Tanks]

So $3.5K / month total That equates to $42K / year (3.5K x 12). ...

lol, we are still failing to communicate. The local rates for an engineer is $1.5K, I pay $2K. So, $500 more than the local rates.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

He could’ve gotten his point across in a more articulate manner but it’s not an unreasonable observation. I think a lot of black people are just as tired of the race stuff as anybody else.

 

[jeanes]

$36K was a pretty strong entry-level wage in 1990. Factoring for inflation, that's quite a bit higher than the average entry-level engineer today.

$36K in 1990 = $88,778 as of June 2024 using a CPI calculator - https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=36000&year1=199001&year2=202406)

Average entry-level engineer salary in the U.S. as of summer 2024: The below sources show a mean entry-level salary across different industries of $68,018, with a higher average in the more technical industries like aerospace, chemical, and electrical. https://www.mtu.edu/engineering/outreach/welcome/salary/

Obviously this is not a perfect analysis, as not all areas of engineering are equal, and using an average wage is difficult because the U.S. is a huge country with a large variety of local averages and vastly different costs of living from place-to-place. But I'm guessing you were hired into one of the more technical engineering roles and/or were a sought after (above average) candidate.

Your post started me thinking. My starting salary as a mechanical engineer in Texas in 1970 , $10,200/yr would be equivalent to about $83,000 today by the online calculator. It will be interesting to see what my granddaughter, who will be graduating with an ME degree in May will be starting at. Seems like we have lost considerable ground in the last 50+ years.

 

[Tanks]

...Seems like we have lost considerable ground in the last 50+ years.

Well, it depends on the industry. When my daughter graduated law school in 2010 her starting salary was $160K and her year-end bonus was her salary (pro rated). She is on the hiring committee now at her current firm, starting salary for new associates is $220K. A 37.5% increase just in starting pay.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

lol, we are still failing to communicate. The local rates for an engineer is $1.5K, I pay $2K. So, $500 more than the local rates.

Ahh gotcha, but that only makes the comparison even worse. You're paying $24K annually. I made 150% of that starting in 1990. I couldn't (or at least wouldn't even consider) living on that now. A different career path would be my choice which is increasingly what many young people are choosing.

I don't think that bodes well for the future, likely why the term STEM and the more recent emphasis on those degrees has come about. In the end if a person has to choose between following their passion but at a lower salary versus following the money, many will choose the latter.

 

[Tanks]

We have been outsourcing work for decades, part of the reason is cost but the other reason is lack of qualified people here.

However, what the people overseas make does not really impact the salaries here.

 

[jeanes]

Well, it depends on the industry. When my daughter graduated law school in 2010 her starting salary was $160K and her year-end bonus was her salary (pro rated). She is on the hiring committee now at her current firm, starting salary for new associates is $220K. A 37.5% increase just in starting pay.

My statement was a comment on Louis' example of engineering salaries. Evidently we have more need for lawyers than engineers today.

 

[WyoBull]

Well, it depends on the industry. When my daughter graduated law school in 2010 her starting salary was $160K and her year-end bonus was her salary (pro rated). She is on the hiring committee now at her current firm, starting salary for new associates is $220K. A 37.5% increase just in starting pay.

What market, or city? A lot of other factors to consider than just salary. $220k in NYC is not all that good but pay that in San Antonio, now that’s a different story.

 

[Tanks]

NYC market, a "white-shoe" law firm. And $220K for a 25 year old is still a pretty good salary, even in NYC.

 

[wesheltonj]

My statement was a comment on Louis' example of engineering salaries. Evidently we have more need for lawyers than engineers today.

I can assure you, that most lawyers starting out don’t make that kind of money.

All dependent, where you went to school, class rank, Order of the Coif, Law Review, Phi Delta Phi, Clerkship, etc.

 

[wesheltonj]

I can assure you, that most lawyers starting out don’t make that kind of money.

All dependent, where you went to school, class rank, Order of the Coif, Law Review, Phi Delta Phi, Clerkship, etc.

Frankly, we have too many lawyers and not enough Physicians. And it shows up in earnings. But that’s another story, with different economic factors.

 

[Datchew]

Is there no limit for how vile Trump can get..??

'Is she black or Indian?': Trump attacks Harris's racial identity

The Republican suggested Vice-President Kamala Harris changed her identity from Indian and "became black".

www.bbc.com

How is this vile?
Like fauxcahontus Liz Warren, she plays the racial identity game to get her way in politics. But if someone calls her out on it or questions it you find it vile?