Politics

[HuntingGold]

@WAB
Thanks for your insight on that.

 

[Tanks]

I would think expanding the current refineries would be a heck of a lot quicker as well.

It would be quicker, but politically not feasible in this environment. It is ironic that here in CA when prices go up due to lack of capacity at times oil companies are vilified and are accused of collusion. All it takes is an unscheduled shutdown for supply to be impacted. None of the refineries outside of CA can produce the refined products with the CA formulas.

 

[PARA45]

 

[WAB]

It would be quicker, but politically not feasible in this environment. It is ironic that here in CA when prices go up due to lack of capacity at times oil companies are vilified and are accused of collusion. All it takes is an unscheduled shutdown for supply to be impacted. None of the refineries outside of CA can produce the refined products with the CA formulas.

Neither can the CA refineries unless they bring in high quality blend components in addition to crude oil. OK, I promise, I won’t rant about the idiots at CARB again!

And yes we continually expand our refining capacity. During my time in refining we went from roughly 215 US refineries to 157. During that time refining capacity went up. However, we need a permitting regime that supports instead of impedes this process.

 

[spike.t]

1977 actually. The Cherry point and North Pole refineries were built to handle ANS crude in conjunction with the construction of the trans Alaska pipeline. We don’t really need more refineries, we just need the regulatory environment to support the continued expansion of the ones we have. Pipelines are another matter. We have some critical pipeline needs that just can’t get permitting.

Was wondering when the muppets in charge eventually realise that the evil oil/petrol/ diesel etc can't be replaced by solar..wind and other green shite, won't the closure of these refineries leave a lot of the west dependent on certain players that might not play ball?....

 

[Hunt anything]

Is there any truth to the word that many of the current US refineries aren’t capable of refining the grade of crude produced in the states and that’s why our production and exports rise with little reduction in prices?

 

[WAB]

Was wondering when the muppets in charge eventually realise that the evil oil/petrol/ diesel etc can't be replaced by solar..wind and other green shite, won't the closure of these refineries leave a lot of the west dependent on certain players that might not play ball?....

We can’t support our nation with imported refined products. We simply don’t have the infrastructure to do so. Shut down those refineries and you are walking to work.

 

[spike.t]

We can’t support our nation with imported refined products. We simply don’t have the infrastructure to do so. Shut down those refineries and you are walking to work.

OK presumed it would be a fkup for most western countries.....dangotes new refinery I read is going to be a bit of a game changer in the oil landscape.....

 

[WAB]

Is there any truth to the word that many of the current US refineries aren’t capable of refining the grade of crude produced in the states and that’s why our production and exports rise with little reduction in prices?

No that’s not true. Refineries are typically designed for a type of crude, light sweet, intermediate or heavy. Heavy oil refineries (coking) are designed for nasty crudes, Venezuelan and Canadian heavies for example. This requires a much higher investment but yields a more profitable operation. Good examples of this are Wood River (IL) and Pine Bend (MN). You would not feed a straight diet of light crude to these refineries as you would be giving up tremendous profit. Cherry Point (WA) was specifically designed for ANS. Many of the TX refineries (cracking) were designed for WTI. My early days were at Saint John (NB). That plant was designed for Arab Light.

Over the years modifications tend to create more flexibility, but you are still directed by economics. If you have the metallurgy and bottoms conversion, economics will push you toward heavy nasty crudes. If you don’t, you end up on a diet of WTI, Brent (North Sea), or Pennington (West African) crudes to name a few.

 

[Hunt anything]

Thanks @WAB , you are truly a wealth of information!

 

[spike.t]

It would seem gunshops in Yemen have most things in stock including RPGs.....

 

[freefall]

1977 actually. The Cherry point and North Pole refineries were built to handle ANS crude in conjunction with the construction of the trans Alaska pipeline. We don’t really need more refineries, we just need the regulatory environment to support the continued expansion of the ones we have. Pipelines are another matter. We have some critical pipeline needs that just can’t get permitting.

The refinery in North Pole was shut down a few years ago because of leakage into the water table. Part of our inflated fuel costs here.

 

[Hunt anything]

It would seem gunshops in Yemen have most things in stock including RPGs.....

Damn, that is one well stocked shop, no supply chain problem in Yemen.

 

[Brent in Az]

Will that shipping company become uninsurable?

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/lloyds-london-sees-multi-billion-dollar-insurance-loss-baltimore-bridge-collapse-2024-03-28/

 

[Mekaniks]

Will that shipping company become uninsurable?

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/lloyds-london-sees-multi-billion-dollar-insurance-loss-baltimore-bridge-collapse-2024-03-28/

I believe the ship is on charter to Maersk, one of the largest shipping co in the world. It will be the cost of doing business….

 

[WAB]

The refinery in North Pole was shut down a few years ago because of leakage into the water table. Part of our inflated fuel costs here.

Actually that wasn’t the reason, although that was not good! It shut down due to quality bank issues.

 

[fourfive8]

Here's some info on the refinery in North Pole. For what it's worth, the "downstream" direction on the map in the link is from SE to NW. May have bearing on long term contamination/plume movement? In any case, the major drainage, the Tanana, is adjacent to refinery. The Tanana is a major tributary of the Yukon.

North Pole Refinery

Former North Pole Refinery overview and project news

dec.alaska.gov

 

[V.Veritas]

Maybe should have shared it under the jokes. Whatever. It fits in both.

 

[Corey0372]

 

[WAB]

Here's some info on the refinery in North Pole. For what it's worth, the "downstream" direction on the map in the link is from SE to NW. May have bearing on long term contamination/plume movement? In any case, the major drainage, the Tanana, is adjacent to refinery. The Tanana is a major tributary of the Yukon.

North Pole Refinery

Former North Pole Refinery overview and project news

dec.alaska.gov

North Pole used a very unique gasoline production process, the heart of which was an extraction using sulfolene. That is the major issue in the plume discussed.

I don’t know this for a fact, but I doubt that there is a single refinery site without groundwater contamination. Particularly problematic are the plants built by the DOD in WWII. They buried most of the piping to reduce the impact of bombing. The long term environmental consequences are fairly obvious. The EPA now goes after the private companies that inherited this mess from the DOD. The fact that the federal government created the problem seems lost on them.