Politics

I have become extremely suspicious of those who rely heavily on “groupthink” for opinion support. Heavy reliance on such as ISW and Wilson indicates old habits/techniques likely first learned in junior high speech class to awe an audience. Extensive use of easily manipulated third party video also comes to mind along with using any other “packaged” info for effect and convenience. The concept of the “mutual admiration society” may also fit. Soon enough such dependence will carry an almost certain stigma and risk of AI manipulation... if not already. Those heavily involved in groupthink are the most vulnerable by definition.
Caveat emptor :)
I really think you are exactly correct. Group think is one of the most common problems, left or right, of the new information age. People all too often rely totally on confirmation biased sources. It is why I urge anyone to expand their information space.

What I find particularly depressing about your post, is the novel concept that supporting a belief with evidence is an example of "group think." Most educated people would call that a appropriate employment of the term "argument" - not in the current definition of a spat or fuss - but in the classical use of the term to employ reasoning supported by evidence. I try to do that with most points that I make, and attempt to be very clear when I am simply offering my opinion.

Regrettably, the response of far too many, even most people, is not to provide counter argument but to attack either the person or the source of the evidence. The highly respected Wilson center and ISW analysis of the conflict in Ukraine and conditions in Russia obviously doesn't fit the confirmation bias of many on the far right. I suspect that analysis and my opinions are in stark contrast to those with whom they normally dialogue. The response, almost inevitably, is to attack that analysis not with counter argument or evidence, but by calling them names - how did you put it - adolescents breathing rarified air or something like that? And I assume your counter to the reasoning I employ is that I am part of a "mutual admiration society?" If I have that wrong, I apologize. I was having real difficulty understanding your "concept."

I would simply urge all of us to examine the possibility that anyone, on any side of the political spectrum, can be subject to "group think." I personally believe (an opinion) that the best way to guard against it is to employ as broad a range of information sources as possible.

For instance, every morning I have the major stories of the day delivered to my inbox by Forbes, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal along with half a dozen political military updates from this country and the UK. My Bookmarks bar contains Fox, CNN, Newsmax, Politico, Gateway Pundit, Citizen Free Press, Breitbart, RedState, and God forbid also MSNBC among others. The only way to understand any issue is to see it from all angles. Not to do so is to be played by someone else's narrative.

Caveat Emptor indeed.
 
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Are nobody worried by the fact that the American candidates are all really old?
My father is 84, and I know what he enjoys to do in the afternoon, take a nap!
None of our octogenarian African leader are particularly lively...

Their age definitely concerns me..

Its clear that neither Trump or Biden are at their peaks (whether you like or hate either of them and/or their politics, its pretty obvious their mental and emotional games were much stronger in years gone by)..

and then there is the obvious physical health concern.. not only is an 80+ year old going to lack the energy of a younger guy (the office of POTUS clearly puts a physical beating on its occupants.. you can watch them age dramatically over the course of any former presidents time in office).. but the truth is the average life expectancy of an American male is currently 77.28 years.. either of these guys could kick the bucket any day now at this point... and whats that going to leave us in terms of a replacement? (neither seem to be able to pick a decent VP)..

Im not necessarily for a 35 year old (minimum age requirement to run for POTUS).. not a lot of 35 year olds I know have been around the block enough to have a clue how to run a major enterprise of any kind, much less have any experience at it..

but someone in their 40's to 60's sure would be a nice option..
 
The only way to understand any issue is to see it from all angles. Not to do so is to be played by someone else's narrative.

absolutely agree...

folks that only look at extreme right or extreme left sources lack the ability to even begin to try to understand an issue from the other side (you dont have to agree.. but if you dont understand, there is no way to actually create an argument/debate and even begin the process of trying to change something).. and they certainly are subjecting themselves to a very narrow view of understanding for themselves as well (which means they clearly dont have a full understanding of the issue at hand)..

if anyone doesnt believe that Red State wants to manipulate you every bit as much as Al Jazeera and the NY Times does... they are truly naïve.. everyone has an agenda and a narrative these days..

I tend to lean pretty hard right.. but I trust Fox and Brietbart about the same as I trust MSNBC and CNN.. Fox and Brietbart just dont tend to piss me off as much..

But I read material from ALL of them daily.. as much to know the truth and find the facts.. as I do it to "know my enemy", and to "shape" the enemy while not allowing the enemy to "shape" me.. (Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, et al)
 
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I find it hard to understand how such a great nation fails to produce great leaders.
There must be a structural issue that prevents younger, dynamic men to take charge.

its cyclical..

we've had several decades of good/easy times.. and as a result now unfortunately are dealing with a lot of weak men, who are creating difficult times..

1706892756007.png
 
I call bullshit. I may know he needs my vote - and he most assuredly does, and everyone like me. But if he's willing to stand on a stage in front of a crowd and tell me he doesn't need it? No problem. I was leaning that way anyway. Happy to oblige. Thing is, I may know he needs my vote. I truly believe that he believes he does not. I will not indulge a delusional narcissist.
Yes, he needs your vote. During the primary he may say he does not, because in a R primary, each is trying to out do each other as to who is the most conservative and painting your opposition as a RINO, (which they actually might or might not be). Normally you play to RRR and RR voters as that who going to show up and vote. The problem always occurs once the primary is over, playing back to the middle as that who decides the election. Trump will move back, of course that's if he follows directions, which based on past experience he might go off script.

All that said, I still say Newsome will come out of the convention as the D candidate. The D's have a real problem on their hands. Pick the VP to replace and lose the general. Not pick the VP and there goes the Black vote.

And the R's do not have anyone that could beat Newsome. The best R chance is DeSantis, but still not a winner.
 
I find it hard to understand how such a great nation fails to produce great leaders.
There must be a structural issue that prevents younger, dynamic men to take charge.

My opinion only, but America's best, brightest, and most motivated don't want to be politicians. They want to actually create and do real, tangible things--not hobnob and write policy. The best and brightest in this country lead through their personal and professional actions and don't need (or want) the mantle of a political position to be effective leaders.

Also, modern politics seems to attract mostly extreme narcissists, especially at the national level.
 
My opinion only, but America's best, brightest, and most motivated don't want to be politicians. They want to actually create and do real, tangible things--not hobnob and write policy. The best and brightest in this country lead through their personal and professional actions and don't need (or want) the mantle of a political position to be effective leaders.

Also, modern politics seems to attract mostly extreme narcissists, especially at the national level.
Very plausible theory. Who wants to been seen as a political anyway?
 
All too often nowadays, I am simply embarrassed at the ridiculousness of some of my fellow "conservatives". While certainly not the only example, I give you Exhibit A:

 
My opinion only, but America's best, brightest, and most motivated don't want to be politicians. They want to actually create and do real, tangible things--not hobnob and write policy. The best and brightest in this country lead through their personal and professional actions and don't need (or want) the mantle of a political position to be effective leaders.

Also, modern politics seems to attract mostly extreme narcissists, especially at the national level.

Being a politician should never be a “just out of school” career option anyway…

Another qualifier should be added for applying to any seat of decision making and power. A minimum of 10 years working in the private sector, military, law enforcement, and select other services. With explicit exclusion of ngo’s, trade unions etc.
 
For those that do not know them, Veritas does a lot of groundbreaking undercover investigative journalism.

I believe @Red Leg has made this point as well on many occasions, that the gop is not doing enough to take advantage of the new elections rules (mail in ballots and such)

Here a comparison between DNC and RNC budgets…

Image1706899282.448203.jpg


Looks like this might explain a lot…
 
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Yes, he needs your vote. During the primary he may say he does not, because in a R primary, each is trying to out do each other as to who is the most conservative and painting your opposition as a RINO, (which they actually might or might not be). Normally you play to RRR and RR voters as that who going to show up and vote. The problem always occurs once the primary is over, playing back to the middle as that who decides the election. Trump will move back, of course that's if he follows directions, which based on past experience he might go off script.

All that said, I still say Newsome will come out of the convention as the D candidate. The D's have a real problem on their hands. Pick the VP to replace and lose the general. Not pick the VP and there goes the Black vote.

And the R's do not have anyone that could beat Newsome. The best R chance is DeSantis, but still not a winner.
He is not a conservative. What middle do you anticipate he will tack toward.

I do agree the Dems have a problem and Newsome is likely their best solution.
 
My thoughts: You can bitch and moan about Trump or Halley or Biden. Or in the case of South Africa, ANC, DA, EFF etc. You can do as you please BUT you have to vote. If you elect to not participate in the democratic process because you don't like your party's candidate then I don't want to hear you bitch and complain about how the country is being run. You have lost the right! If you didn't stand up to vote for change then you have ceded the right to expect change.

Stay home and massage your principles I don't want to hear one single bleating from you. You stand and vote for your party not for an individual! You stand and vote for change. So if you sit on your ass come election day I really don't want to hear about your political woes.

Vote for your party's elected candidate or shut up.
 
So, on the topic of geriatric Presidential candidates, what happens in a scenario where the Democrats field a new middle-aged, energetic replacement candidate while the Republicans insist on running their octogenarian sociopath?
 
So, on the topic of geriatric Presidential candidates, what happens in a scenario where the Democrats field a new middle-aged, energetic replacement candidate while the Republicans insist on running their octogenarian sociopath?
I believe we already know what happens, 4 more years of spiraling down the toilet.
 
I believe we already know what happens, 4 more years of spiraling down the toilet.

At a higher rate of speed…

Newsomes track record in California speaks for itself..

If you think Bidens “build back better” was a train wreck.. wait until you see Newsomes version of an improved America…
 
On what do you base your analysis that Hailey is unelectable? Do you have access to some sort of polling not available to the rest of us or is it a special political insight? Every reasonably respected national poll has her out performing Trump significantly. Of course those results are ignored or disparaged in Trump world in places like Breitbart and Revolver. Moreover Tucker Carlson and his ilk have made opposing Hailey something of a personal crusade - rather like Zelensky.

I just it both telling and amusing that my party would rather ignore the evidence of the weakness of their presumptive nominee over one who clearly has the potential to actually win. I would add Hailey also far more representative of the Reagan tradition of conservatism than Trump who is not a conservative at all.

Many republicans will vote down ticket and not vote for him again. Still others simply will stay home. He is bleeding independents and moderate democrats whenever he opens his mouth. That is reflected in actual analysis and polling.

I personally do not believe he has a clue about foreign policy or a basic understanding of this country's actual national interests. I am convinced his concept of national interest is totally embodied in his own self-indulgent personal interests which I believe he puts before everything and everyone. Note, I said that I believe that personally rather than offer actual evidence - but, I am hardly alone.

He clearly did good work with respect to immigration, but he is also the person who created the conditions that caused the Covid economic catastrophe. He gets a total pass, but some in Trump denial should remember the now apparently "dangerous vaccine" was his achievement as was shutting down our economy.

He will likely lose us this election and his lack coattails will likely also lose us the house and perhaps the senate. We will have no one to blame but ourselves.


Haley is unelectable just like any other Republican other than Trump is unelectble. That's a fact. Why is that a fact?

Because Trump will tear down and destroy any rival for the GOP limelight. He violates every element of the Reagan doctrine "above all else, never speak ill of another Republican".

So it will go down like this: Trump will cannibalize all the GOP competition. Trump may be disqualified from running in enough States due to charges or convictions that it is impossible for him to win or ineligible for him to run. As he is drowning, he will pull whomever is left running into the abyss, ushering in another 4 years of Biden.

Will I vote for Trump? Sure. I'm a never-Biden or never-Newsome or never-Michelle type of voter. But I do pity the GOP party we've allowed to be hijacked by a single personality, and I do think Trump will lose and the GOP will lose.

The problem I have with the Trump supporters is that there are too few reluctant supporters and too many emboldened supporters. That's not real conservatism, these people love the Howard Stern-esque antics of a personality more than they rationally want to slow the decline of the nation. Plugging your nose and voting for Trump instead of a leftist is a reasonable, pragmatic decision. Doing it while thinking we have discriminating tastes in an electorate is retardation.
 

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