Politics

[Jfet]

Since the Vietnam conflict was actually a proxy war, by any measure, the US survived while the USSR collapsed. So who won that one?

Spot On!

 

[Sabattiboy]

As for Alaska, there are two aspects to a conventional military take-over. there is the initial attack and take possession and then there is the occupation. Given the materiel advantage, the Russians could win the initial portion but the occupation would likely be a different story and that is where the Russian leaders would be endangered by the devoted WhiteFeather disciple.
But in reality the exchange of Alaska would be much more peaceful. What will happen is the US will become so financially indebted to China that China will force a default on the debt and among other things will demand Alaska as payment. the US govt will Quit-Claim Alaska over to China and China will give it as a present to Russia (in exchange for other items).
There would still be the problems with occupation, but Russia & China would have a massive immigration program to shift public opinion and make possible a secret police system of neighbors ratting on neighbors.

If that scenario plays out, is there any possibility of tossing them California instead of Alaska.
I am more likely to visit as a tourist or hunt Alaska then California.
If California slides off into the ocean or the San Andras fault cuts it loose whoever owns it can file an insurance claim for the loss. I think that might be considered an Act of God.

 

[Jfet]

For those of us who have grown up The United States of America since 1940’s this is what victory in war looks like to us.

However, I would suggest in the history of the world that a foreign army in foreign lands getting that type of reception is highly unusual. Case in point the US Army when it marched into Atlanta, GA was not met with welcoming smiles and bottles of wine. How was Napoleon’s army treated as it marched through Europe?
Korea and Vietnam were part of the Cold War. We stopped the spread of communism into South Korea. We were not successful in Vietnam. In both cases we were trying not to let those wars become WW3. We were successful in that goal. USSR doesn’t exist now. We were successful but we just don’t have those beautiful scenes of local people hugging and kissing American soldiers to enjoy and make ourselves feel victorious. We are victorious. Even U.S. companies are doing business with Vietnam today. So who won? It will be interesting to see what happens with our relationship with the Taliban over the next 50 years.
It’s that American gregariousness that can make it difficult to keep up extremist point of view over time.

 

[Sabattiboy]

For those of us who have grown up The United States of America since 1940’s this is what victory in war looks like to us.

However, I would suggest in the history of the world that a foreign army in foreign lands getting that type of reception is highly unusual. Case in point the US Army when it marched into Atlanta, GA was not met with welcoming smiles and bottles of wine. How was Napoleon’s army treated as it marched through Europe?
Korea and Vietnam were part of the Cold War. We stopped the spread of communism into South Korea. We were not successful in Vietnam. In both cases we were trying not to let those wars become WW3. We were successful in that goal. USSR doesn’t exist now. We were successful but we just don’t have those beautiful scenes of local people hugging and kissing American soldiers to enjoy and make ourselves feel victorious. We are victorious. Even U.S. companies are doing business with Vietnam today. So who won? It will be interesting to see what happens with our relationship with the Taliban over the next 50 years.
It’s that American gregariousness that can make it difficult to keep up extremist point of view over time.

Could the USA have stopped the killing fields where something around 2 million were killed?
One day america might just let other nations kill whomever they consider undesirable and let the pieces fall where they may. We should be learning that we can not police the entire world. Even if we can get everybody to play nice there will be an end point and new leaders will arise and start it all over again.
From this prospective does very much matter in the end?
I guess it mattered to those saved by Shindler and Rabe.

 

[Doug3006]

I wouldn't call it a defeat to achieving an objective- an analogy would be: an older brother prevents a larger boy from beating up his younger smaller brother. After several fights the older brother hopes that the younger brother would get his act together enough to fight the larger boy on his own. But after a length of time the older brother gives up and lets the larger boy beat-up on his younger brother.

While S Vietnam was lost to the Communists it interesting that supporting N Vietnam, along with USSRs misadventures in Afghanistan and low worldwide prices for USSRs commodities resulted in the fall of the USSR. Since the Vietnam conflict was actually a proxy war, by any measure, the US survived while the USSR collapsed. So who won that one?

The North Vietnamese.

 

[Jfet]

We should be learning that we can not police the entire world.

We are still working on figuring that balance out. We do clearly remember what happened when we were not involved in the 1930’s. That was a very big mistake.

 

[PARA45]

 

[jpr9954]

 

[LivingTheDream]

This is one of my favorite exchanges regarding Vietnam war.

Col. Harry G. Summers Jr. begins his book, On Strategy: The Vietnam War in Context, by relaying the following conversation: “‘You know you never defeated us on the battlefield,’ said the American colonel. The North Vietnamese colonel pondered this remark a moment. ‘That may be so,’ he replied, ‘but it is also irrelevant.’”

 

[Ray B]

The North Vietnamese colonel ‘That may be so,’ he replied, ‘but it is also irrelevant.’”

Ah but it was VERY relevant. It was marketing. The Communist entities learned what the cost would be for them to gain control of Vietnam, which they grudgingly paid over several years. But in so doing they learned that they could not afford the remainder of SE Asia and the Western Pacific countries. USSR, as noted ended up going broke over their military intervention.

China does appear to have learned that it is better to use diplomacy, subversion, espionage and economic development to gain control of another country and leave the macho military entanglements to the amateurs.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Ah but it was VERY relevant. It was marketing. The Communist entities learned what the cost would be for them to gain control of Vietnam, which they grudgingly paid over several years. But in so doing they learned that they could not afford the remainder of SE Asia and the Western Pacific countries. USSR, as noted ended up going broke over their military intervention.

China does appear to have learned that it is better to use diplomacy, subversion, espionage and economic development to gain control of another country and leave the macho military entanglements to the amateurs.

I believe you are proving the old colonels point. Hopefully we can learn from history.

End of quote, repeat the last line.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

 

[sestoppelman]

I believe you are proving the old colonels point. Hopefully we can learn from history.

End of quote, repeat the last line.

Good one, SimpleJoe!

 

[sestoppelman]

For those of us who have grown up The United States of America since 1940’s this is what victory in war looks like to us.

However, I would suggest in the history of the world that a foreign army in foreign lands getting that type of reception is highly unusual. Case in point the US Army when it marched into Atlanta, GA was not met with welcoming smiles and bottles of wine. How was Napoleon’s army treated as it marched through Europe?
Korea and Vietnam were part of the Cold War. We stopped the spread of communism into South Korea. We were not successful in Vietnam. In both cases we were trying not to let those wars become WW3. We were successful in that goal. USSR doesn’t exist now. We were successful but we just don’t have those beautiful scenes of local people hugging and kissing American soldiers to enjoy and make ourselves feel victorious. We are victorious. Even U.S. companies are doing business with Vietnam today. So who won? It will be interesting to see what happens with our relationship with the Taliban over the next 50 years.
It’s that American gregariousness that can make it difficult to keep up extremist point of view over time.

Sadly I have also seen newsreel footage of French people walking up and belting Americans marching thru the streets, assumably for having to destroy their towns in order to liberate them.
Our efforts and sacrifice were not always fully appreciated.

 

[marksman]

Sadly I have also seen newsreel footage of French people walking up and belting Americans marching thru the streets, assumably for having to destroy their towns in order to liberate them.
Our efforts and sacrifice were not always fully appreciated.

apparently the civilian casualties were very high during the Normandy invasion as well as their towns being destroyed causing a hell of a lot of civilians to say they would have preferred to have been left alone and as they were

 

[marksman]

Wasn’t President Trump rubbished for saying something about shining lights destroying the virus.
Ha, what would he know!

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[marksman]

 

[marksman]

 

[marksman]

 

[Wheels]