Politics

[375 Ruger Fan]

Huh???

When I went to school and we had real teachers, the Bullmoose party involved Theodore Roosevelt. The Cleveland precedent involved Grover Cleveland being elected twice but in separate terms.

My mistake, when you said Cleveland I was thinking he was the prez when TR ran on BM party. That was actually Taft, as I am sure you know.

So actually Trump could do both a Cleveland and a Bull Moose 2.0, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

@375 Ruger Fan ... The only flaw I see to your spin the wheel solution: if it takes too many oligarchs to achieve success, then a lot of people are going to die over those weeks. I guess the flip side is another solution isn't really obvious. I trust Red Leg when he says things could dry up real soon and change the course of things. On a serious note, I hope he's right and I hope that change happens quickly.

 

[Tanks]

One thing we are not talking about is Ukraine’s status in the world, after what appears a likely defeat of Russia. A few things come to mind:

1) Zhalinsky will emerge with serious credibility on the world stage.
2) Ukraine will enjoy full EU membership.
3) Ukraine will be granted NATO membership that a cowed Russia will not be able to counter. Interesting to consider that Ukraine’s fighting capabilities will be one of the most formidable among European NATO members.
3) Ukraine will receive huge global support in rebuilding their nation.
4) Russia will be forced to make crippling reparations to Ukraine.
5) Ukraine will finalize their shift from East to West. I suggest that this will likely be the impetus needed to clean up their rampant corruption and unleash the economic potential of their nation.

Russia’s outlook is bleak to say the least. The suffering in Russia will continue long after Ukraine has recovered.

I do not think other members will allow Ukraine into Nato and doubtful in regards to EU though that is more likely.

I don't see Russia making reparations or Ukraine ridding itself of its corruption, heck we have just as bad here except through legal means. Just look at BBB details or the recently passed Omnibus bill and the money going to various front organizations.

I also do not see Russia capitulating per se. Out of their demands I see them getting Ukraine not joining Nato, recognition of Crimea officially joining Russia and the separatist regions being independent and later join Russia.

I think the demand of Ukraine disarmament and Russian being taught as a second language are demands that are there to be negotiated away so everyone will feel like a winner.

 

[WAB]

I do not think other members will allow Ukraine into Nato and doubtful in regards to EU though that is more likely.

I don't see Russia making reparations or Ukraine ridding itself of its corruption, heck we have just as bad here except through legal means. Just look at BBB details or the recently passed Omnibus bill and the money going to various front organizations.

I also do not see Russia capitulating per se. Out of their demands I see them getting Ukraine not joining Nato, recognition of Crimea officially joining Russia and the separatist regions being independent and later join Russia.

I think the demand of Ukraine disarmament and Russian being taught as a second language are demands that are there to be negotiated away so everyone will feel like a winner.

I think it all hinges on the next two weeks. If the Russian forces totally implode as some have predicted, then I think much of what I have laid out will come to pass.

 

[Tanks]

I think it all hinges on the next two weeks. If the Russian forces totally implode as some have predicted, then I think much of what I have laid out will come to pass.

My thinking, based on Putin's personality over the years, is that losing is not an option for him. I would expect him to go all in and level the cities, think Hiroshima but chemical not nuclear, if his back is against a wall. Actually, I am kinda surprised that has not happened yet at Kyiv.

 

[Wheels]

 

[Randy F]

 

[Tbitty]

View attachment 457434

The greatest advocation for the 2nd Ammendment is playing out for real.

 

[Ray B]

based on Putin's personality , is that losing is not an option for him. I would expect him to go all in and level the cities,

So at what point do the generals that would be taking the order and passing it down the chain Stop and say That's Enough, we aren't going to do it?

 

[LivingTheDream]

So at what point do the generals that would be taking the order and passing it down the chain Stop and say That's Enough, we aren't going to do it?

About a week of being stuck in the mud and being out of food.

 

[Sabattiboy]

If you want to talk to a significant portion of the Biden voters you need to move from the farm to the cemetery.

Or poll leaders of certain other countries.

 

[jpr9954]

 

[WAB]

My thinking, based on Putin's personality over the years, is that losing is not an option for him. I would expect him to go all in and level the cities, think Hiroshima but chemical not nuclear, if his back is against a wall. Actually, I am kinda surprised that has not happened yet at Kyiv.

If his military implodes I don’t think he will survive it. Russians have a low tolerance for failure.

 

[Tanks]

So at what point do the generals that would be taking the order and passing it down the chain Stop and say That's Enough, we aren't going to do it?

They are already dropping munitions on the cities. The spin could be saving Russian soldier lives by forcing Zelensky to capitulate.

To use an old adage, Putin has got the tiger by the tail, he can't let go. Failure would mean his end.

Due to his nuclear trump card NATO can not intervene directly.

 

[Wheels]

 

[Wheels]

 

[Ray B]

Who needs a country to send the US money when the US and the world has countries that are willing to send fatal viruses free of charge?

 

[Major Bonkers]

From 'Naval News':


Click to Enlarge. Analysis of Sentinel 2 satellite imagery shows three groups of warships approaching the coast. We can say with confidence that these are Russian, and include landing ships.

Russian Navy Landing Ships Seen Approaching Ukrainian Coast Near Odessa​

The Russian Navy is advancing on the Odessa region of Ukraine. Analysis shows that the force includes landing ships.​

H I Sutton 15 Mar 2022
Russian Navy ships can be seen in satellite imagery approaching the Ukrainian Coast. The Sentinel 2 satellite image, taken at 11:47 local time, shows at least 14 vessels.


The vessels were found by Naval News with the help of Damien Symon, an independent defense analyst. Preliminary analysis of the vessels suggests 3 groups. Two are made up of combatants, and one has several landing ships. The landing ships appear to have sailed directly from their staging position off the Crimean coast. Analysts are searching the imagery for more vessels.

Provisional identification of the ships​

The northern group, in a line-astern formation, appears to be led by a tug boat or minesweeper. This vessel appears to be towing a mine clearing device. Behind it are two Ropucha class landing ships, another tug boat and a trailing Ropucha.

The second group, labelled Group 2 on the graphic, are in a square formation. These appear to be smaller warships such as missile corvettes.

The southern group, labelled Group 1, is led by the Slava Class cruiser Moskva. This appears to have two Alligator class landing ships, and the Ivan Gren class landing ship Pyotr Morgunov. There is also a smaller warship, possibly a Buyan-M class missile corvette.

Opposed Landing​

While Russian warships have sailed close to Odessa during the conflict so far, this appears to be a landing force. A landing had long been speculated on, and there is credible evidence that it was planned. Previously the Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko has shown plans for an amphibious landing near Odessa. That was an apparent intelligence blunder as no landings occurred in the following days. However the threat was always present.


On March 14 a Russian convoy landed at Berdyansk on the opposite side of the Ukrainian coast. That action, on the Sea of Azov, followed Russian success on the land there and was unopposed. This is different however.

Any landing is likely to opposed. At the time of writing it is unclear whether the landing has taken place yet, or exactly where the vessels will target.

 

[Red Leg]

This report is from yesterday. No attempt yet. May simply be an effort to fix the Ukrainian brigade in Odessa. Otherwise those troops would be attacking the flank of the element trying to push NW through Kherson. I am not sure the Russians have the combat power to successfully manage an opposed landing. The Ukrainians are believed to have around a dozen anti-ship missiles of their own manufacture. To date they have not employed them. Moreover, no one, to include the US Marines, has attempted an opposed landing in the face of modern anti-tank guided missile fire. A javelin or equivalent strike on a landing craft could be catastrophic.

A successful landing, however, might very well unhinge the whole defensive effort in the south. The Russians might assume it is worth the risk.

 

[Wheels]

A javelin or equivalent strike on a landing craft could be catastrophic.

A stock photo similar to this was used in a story a week or so ago. Your comment was my first thought. Scary deterrent.