Politics

[Tundra Tiger]

Maybe this'd be better in the humor section, but covid is very political so...

 

[lwaters]

The people stuck there probably thought that the Afghan government would have lasted longer. I bet a lot of the US back Afghan army were Taliban informats.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

It doesn't work that way.

In our system the commander in chief is the ultimate "military leader." His name is Joe Biden. The Army and DOD recommended a far different plan. It was rejected by the senile old man in the White House. That, by the way, is not an opinion. Both Milley and Austin should have resigned. Today, the WH announced it would abide by the 31 August deadline. It will take a minimum of 72 hours to withdraw all the military forces. You are smart fellow. Do the math on how much longer repatriation flights will continue.

Uncomfortable with a standing army. That may be the most singularly naïve thing I have read outside AOC's twitter account. You are a citizen of a world-wide economic empire. You can't defend such an empire on the docks of NY. It has to be defended on the boundaries of that empire. And I would argue our economic condition, so dependent upon our access to markets, is worth that expense and effort.

That doesn't mean other Commanders in Chief haven't made equally foolish choices. The invasion of Iraq, to my mind, was one.

But this senile old man has made a decision that will leave some number of Americans and our allies behind. Shame on him and anyone who thinks that is a good idea.

Within a week we will have a measure of the extent of this disaster, surely the 'powers that be' will be forced to take action to remove Biden then? Surely, surely this lunacy can't be allowed to continue? The world needs a strong USA, it is obvious, why didn't the Democrats forsee this, or is it by design?

 

[PARA45]

With 2500+/- troops on the ground in Afghanistan, it was cheap insurance to have the Taliban in check. Like Red Leg said, we have not lost a single American soldier in 18 months, why such a rush to get out and return the country to what it was 20 years ago. Oh, and BTW the Taliban are now better armed than before. This is a cluster f*ck that is going to haunt us for a while. Afghanistan will become a terrorist breeding ground with better weapons systems than before.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I'm not sure Kevin. Maybe the pursuit of their ideology doesn't allow them to see far enough to understand the scope of its impacts globally? I agree: the world needs a strong U.S. I think we are wedged so far into the space between a rock and a hard spot that I don't see how we get out. It is frightening to me that we have THREE AND A HALF YEARS left of this presidency, and our choices are him for as long as that lasts and Harris, who scares me even more. Maybe I just lack the necessary imagination, but there do not appear to be any easy solutions on the horizon. I fear things could get real ugly.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

PARA45... It has crossed my mind several times that it's possible there has never, ever been a better use of that term - clusterf**k - than the current situation.

 

[PARA45]

TT, we used that term a lot in the military.

 

[VertigoBE]

TT, we used that term a lot in the military.

FUBAR?

 

[sgt_zim]

nah, more like BOHICA

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I'm not sure Kevin. Maybe the pursuit of their ideology doesn't allow them to see far enough to understand the scope of its impacts globally? I agree: the world needs a strong U.S. I think we are wedged so far into the space between a rock and a hard spot that I don't see how we get out. It is frightening to me that we have THREE AND A HALF YEARS left of this presidency, and our choices are him for as long as that lasts and Harris, who scares me even more. Maybe I just lack the necessary imagination, but there do not appear to be any easy solutions on the horizon. I fear things could get real ugly.

TT, when Harris said ..."you are not going to pin this shit on me", was she referring to Biden's decision on Afghanistan? She may just be the person who unseats him. I don't like either, but a senile old CIC is far more dangerous than an inexperienced one who takes advice from the generals. If Biden did indeed make his dumb Afghanistan decision despite advice to the contrary, that is hugely more dangerous. This time it is a mess, next time it could be a global catastrophe.

 

[jeanes]

And so the "return to normalcy" the democrat voters wanted. What scares me is that Joe's approval rating is still nearly 50%.

 

[bowjijohn]

This must be like being present at the end of the Greek and Roman empires

It happens when there is not enough spine left in the resident population(s) to fight to maintain their cultures - undermined from within by a form of politically motivated bone narcosis

Are we watching the slow death of western values and way of life?

I see no-one amongst the current crop of leaders with the even the basic level of bollocks to address this decline.

The chinks are running rings around us and we are witnessing the most powerful nation on earth 'taking the knee' to a 15th Century cult

I don't know if Afghanistan remains a significant geopolitical arena but, if this is indicative of our will, what does it say to the Russians, Chinese and Iranians - none of whom are stupid - when we show so little determination and competence in political, strategic, military and intelligence planning?

I experienced the death of my own dear Rhodesia 76 to 80 - but at least we fought and gave our best trying to save it

I really didn't think I'd see the decline of a culture again

Once again, lions led and undermined by twats - (that bloke Flower in Rhodesia's case!)

 

[davsel]

The only thing keeping the Taliban in check for the past decade is Allied air power. The Afghan military was known to run away from the vast majority of engagements with the Taliban. You can equip, but cannot adequately train the majority of tribal, inbred, low IQ middle east men - it is not just an Afghanistan issue, but they are among the worst in the region. Everyone paying attention could easily predict the outcome once the Allies withdrew.

The Biden administration (whomever is calling the shots) deliberately chose this path. They could bomb the Taliban into oblivion today if they wished. They sat back and watched as the Taliban pored in from Pakistan and blanketed the country. There is something sinister afoot, and it has not yet been realized.

The war in Afghanistan has been a money making/laundering operation since the beginning, and the world has known the Taliban has been holed up in Pakistan - our ally?

Remember when Obama went to school in Pakistan? Visited there later in life? Brought about the "Arab Spring?" Who do you think is calling the shots? Who are their allies? Who benefits from this supposed surprise fiasco?

It is all a show.

I am thankful we are out of that hellhole, but fearful of what comes next for our military.

 

[NE 7x57]

The administration has already shown weakness and that they don't have a damn clue what they're doing. So even if Biden was to say, "give our people back or we'll take military action against you", the other side would assume he's bluffing and they'd probably be correct.

Regardless of whether or not Democrats want to acknowledge the culpability of this administration in this cluster, it's their baby. And the blood of Americans who die at the hands of the Taliban after Biden runs away is on the administration's hands. As pointed out by Red Leg, had the morons held onto Bagram they would have not only had options but they could have provided air support to the ANA and slowed the advance of the Taliban. The head of the joint chiefs should be sacked for that along with the Secretary of Defense. they're obviously useless.

Additionally, remember the Democrats blasting Trump because he wasn't a team player with our allies? Now the same people are perfectly ok with bailing and leaving allies there still trying to get people out. Embarrassing and exceedingly dangerous for this country, nothing good has ever come out of the US giving the impression of weakness.

 

[meigsbucks]

FUBAR, Cluster F**k and every other derogatory term describe this fiasco.
I have no military or political background but here’s how I see this mess.
I had no problem with our staying and directing the Afghan Army but our taxpayer dollars would still have had to continue to flow to keep the Afghans supplied. However, since both Trump and Biden decided on withdrawal, it was inevitable. Trump at least said it was “dependent on the conditions on the ground”. Would it have gone smoother? We’ll never know.
So it comes down to Biden. His “plan” or lack of it sickens me.
IMO, should have (in order) kept Bagrum Air Base, brought in the 6k troops to facilitate the withdrawal, evacuated the American citizens, evacuated those Afghans that assisted us, and when we saw how the Taliban was sweeping through the country, destroyed every piece of equipment we could, withdrawn our troops and then bombed every base we had in Afghanistan into dust.
Politicly, only time will tell how it shakes out but this is my take:
So much is dependent on whether or not Americans are left behind or killed. If they are, Joe’s done now. If not, I think because of the border, inflation and Afghanistan, the Dems will keep Joe in place, let the midterms play out however and then replace Joe with Harris because she is “clean”, border assignment aside. They can then appoint an up and comer to VP. If Harris appears unelectable, they can plug in the VP to run in ‘24.
Now if the Republicans take the House in ‘22 (God, I hope so), I think they should immediately impeach VP Harris, before she can replace Joe, for her inaction on the border and put a black mark on her going forward. Then impeach Joe for his total ineptitude on so many issues, some of which I’d consider treasonous.

 

[Hunter4752001]

The real problem for the world will be in the next few months as the status of the Taliban soars as a result of the 'victory' over the West. They bring inspiration to every ratbag terrorist group throughout the globe, Worse still, they will raise the status of the Pakistan Taliban to the stage where they may grab power in that country as well. When that occurs they inherit a sizable nuclear force and know how. Something they will have no moral opposition to supplying to Al Qaeda, ISIS etc.

 

[JGRaider]

And we will never be able to rely on the news we receive from the fake news networks. They will cover sippy cup Joe's axxx like they always do. The fact is, after the 8/31 deadline, anyone left over there against their will are then hostages. We will never know the truth.

 

[Newboomer]

The sequence is Pres, Vice Pres, Speaker, But in order for the Speaker to become pres by attrition would be if both the P & VP were out of office and no new VP had been appointed. The process has been the P was removed from office, the VP became P & the new P appointed a VP (as with JFK & LBJ); or the VP was removed and the P appointed a new VP (as with Nixon, Agnew & Ford). So in order for pelosi to become pres both P & VP would need to be removed from office and have it done so quickly that successors were not appointed. I would guess that the Bidet won't complete his term, which would make Ms Horrible the Pres. The first order of business would be to appoint a new VP and that is where the real selection would be known because that person would be the candidate for Pres in 2024 unless Ms Horrible could manage to get a complete overhaul of her self.

I don't nasty piglousy will become POTUS. She wields too much power where she is and ego says she will stay.

 

[Newboomer]

View attachment 419682

Yessir. Once a hooker, always a hooker

 

[Newboomer]

I have no military experience so I will trust you all on this. I assume that these details have been heavily considered and debated by our military leaders. Whether or not they came to the right decision, I am sure they had their reasons for doing what they did and most likely access to information that we are not privy to. That is not to say that things should not have been done differently, just that I neither have the military experience nor all of the information available to truly know just how right or wrong they got it.

With regard to continued occupation, that is where I will have to disagree. While there are obvious strategic advantages to keeping a military presence in certain areas, we simply cannot afford to keep military forces all over the world. Frankly, I am not too thrilled about even having a standing army, at least at its current size, if not for the imminent threat posed by China. History has not been kind to empires that have spread their military forces into foreign lands with hostile cultures and accrued crippling debt in the process.

I have to strongly disagree with the statement of not maintaining a standing army. History has proven that after every conflict we have been involved in we have decimated the military forces, the results being a mad scramble to resume a semblance of preparedness. Without it every ragtag mob on the planet gets the notion that we are ripe for the picking. Thankfully, our remaining forces are prepared and can be quickly augmented to meet threats.
I do agree that it is not necessary to globetrot wiping some country's nose every time they feel threatened. We should not be their mercenaries, fighting their battles. I can see rendering humanitarian aid for building infrastructure, schools, hospitals, etc. The Navy Seabee Construction Battalions have detachments spread over a large part of the world doing just that. (As a former Seabee I had to get in a plug).