Politics

[Hogpatrol]

 

[cpr0312]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[PARA45]

With all the stuff going on I completely forgot about what happened back on November 7,1983 at the US Capital in Washington

Bomb explodes in U.S. Capitol, Nov. 7, 1983

At two minutes before 11 o'clock in the evening on this day in 1983, a thunderous explosion tore through the second floor of the U.S. Capitol's Senate wing.

www.politico.com

Rosenberg and Evans had their sentence commuted by President Clinton

Rosenberg sits on the board of directors for the organization that handles fundraising for the BLM movement

The hypocrisy of the left has no boundaries. Ugh!!!!!

 

[cpr0312]

 

[GuttormG]

"Sweden... Corona management is one of the worst in Europe."

That's BS. The data clearly shows otherwise. That perception is a direct result of the media pushing a narrative and have been doing so since the beginning of this.

12000 dead
Compared to Norway-574, Denmark-2200, Finland-700

Big success...

 

[Red Leg]

12000 dead
Compared to Norway-574, Denmark-2200, Finland-700

Big success...

An interesting comparison in this country on which to run the numbers are California and Florida. The former has had some of the more draconian business closure and contact rules in the country while Florida has maintained an open economy with focus by the state on protection of the elderly.

California population: 39.5 mil
Florida population: 21.5 mil

Total cases CA: 3.4 mil
Total cases FL: 1.7 mil

Total deaths CA: 42.5 thousand
Total deaths FL: 27.7 thousand

Hmmm

Equally confounding for our new President's prediction of "dark days" ahead are the dramatically falling infection rates over the last ten days nationwide.

But there is hope - I am confident we all are still going to eventually die.

 

[David AK 53]

Hopefully later rather than sooner.

 

[fourfive8]

12000 dead
Compared to Norway-574, Denmark-2200, Finland-700

Big success...

BS eh? The koolaid can be quite intoxicating and blinding if the narrative is consumed and statistics/data ignored or not understood. Sometimes a pictures for bigger words technique may be necessary.

The original statement posed and embedded in this thread went something like... Sweden: "corona management one of the worst in Europe". Actually, the numbers in Sweden are very close to the mean or average for Europe and they didn't attempt to commit national suicide by locking down. Here're two illustrations of current data. One is a number of cases map and the other is a bar graph showing number of covid cases per 100,000.

And for a perspective closer to home. The population of Michigan is roughly the same as the country of Sweden. Michigan's governor has been one the stricter blue state enforcers of mask orders, distancing and lock downs yet Michigan leads Sweden in covid deaths and has since the covid "crisis" began. Michigan deaths- 15,600. Sweden deaths- 11,900.

 

[expresshunt]

There is only one perfect CV cure atm PREVENTION. Australian Govt acted fast and hard. Here in the state of Western Australia we've had no community spread cases for 9 months, so life has been normal. But alas we just finishing a 5 day Lock down as one hotel quarantine security guy got CV and wandered a bit on his days off, until he felt sick..
So our State Premier, Police and Health ministers did a firm lock down of Perth city and south west for 1 case. The contact tracers did 40,000 tests in 5 days. Luckily there appears no community spread so far.. so off the hard lockdown last night, but still compulsory masks (fines), distancing, sanitising... casino (we have 1), pubs, nightclubs closed for another 14 days. Shops and resturants open again, with tracing registers remaining in place long term to all shops.
4 of our lower populated states have done very well, life normal for 8or9 months, 3 states with huge populations in main cities have had a few such lock downs. Prevention (and if needed Isolation and tracing) has been the form of attack on CV19 for Aus and NZ, with closed state borders as required, and closed International borders.
99% of our CV cases have been some amongst the 300,000 Australians returning home from EU, Asia, USA, Africa etc and all going into quarantine, mostly quarantine has been managed very well. This last 1 case could have been a massive community outbreak, if 1 gave it to 20, who gave it to 400, to 8000 within days. Luckily handshakes, hugs and sharing potato chips have been out for a while.

 

[Pheroze]

There is only one perfect CV cure atm PREVENTION. Australian Govt acted fast and hard. Here in the state of Western Australia we've had no community spread cases for 9 months, so life has been normal. But alas we just finishing a 5 day Lock down as one hotel quarantine security guy got CV and wandered a bit on his days off, until he felt sick..
So our State Premier, Police and Health ministers did a firm lock down of Perth city and south west for 1 case. The contact tracers did 40,000 tests in 5 days. Luckily there appears no community spread so far.. so off the hard lockdown last night, but still compulsory masks (fines), distancing, sanitising... casino (we have 1), pubs, nightclubs closed for another 14 days. Shops and resturants open again, with tracing registers remaining in place long term to all shops.
4 of our lower populated states have done very well, life normal for 8or9 months, 3 states with huge populations in main cities have had a few such lock downs. Prevention (and if needed Isolation and tracing) has been the form of attack on CV19 for Aus and NZ, with closed state borders as required, and closed International borders.
99% of our CV cases have been some amongst the 300,000 Australians returning home from EU, Asia, USA, Africa etc and all going into quarantine, mostly quarantine has been managed very well. This last 1 case could have been a massive community outbreak, if 1 gave it to 20, who gave it to 400, to 8000 within days. Luckily handshakes, hugs and sharing potato chips have been out for a while.

This does not sound like any "normal" that I would like to experience. But, I suppose each country and culture will determine what extent of state control they will tolerate for a perceived greater good. This sort of abrupt and arbitrary control is incredibly frightening to me. And there is zero effective judicial restraint possible. Just wait until the next virus that makes COVID look tame. Even if you accept these restraint in the moment, there has to a public review of all measures when the fear and emotion has dissipated. Only then will we be able to assess the measures.

 

[expresshunt]

Yes, 5 days of not normal has been annoying, and effective... and we will very happily put up with the next 14 days of lesser requirements... to ensure zero community transmission in our state.

 

[spike.t]

Yes, 5 days of not normal has been annoying, and effective... and we will very happily put up with the next 14 days of lesser requirements... to ensure zero community transmission in our state.

Dont think a lot of people on the other side of Australia were very happy at what they had to endure with the lockdowns there....

 

[spike.t]

And here they come usa.....lots more democrat voters....

 

[expresshunt]

Dont think a lot of people on the other side of Australia were very happy at what they had to endure with the lockdowns there....

No, not happy... harsh but it stopped the deaths, permanent lung damages, stopped it spreading. Now as ever 1/ Prevention... and 2/ Reacting faster to put out the occassional CV spotfires from quarantine imports, before infernos.

 

[BSO Dave]

99% of our CV cases have been some amongst the 300,000 Australians returning home from EU, Asia, USA, Africa etc and all going into quarantine, mostly quarantine has been managed very well. This last 1 case could have been a massive community outbreak, if 1 gave it to 20, who gave it to 400, to 8000 within days. Luckily handshakes, hugs and sharing potato chips have been out for a while.

Make no mistake, it's not the lockdowns of business, public gatherings, or school closures within your own country that has limited the spread.. It's the isolation from foreigners and your own citizens returning from abroad that has been the main factor in limiting the spread in your country. Australia and NZ are unique in that you are both islands who can actually secure your borders to a much higher degree than countries who share land borders.

If we actually do follow the "science" (even the CDC's version of it), it has shown us that total lockdowns where never necessary. The numbers that @Red Leg provided in an earlier post show that the 2 most populated States in the USA in New York and California have endured the most cases while instituting and remaining on lockdown throughout this entire fiasco. Whereas, a state like Florida has been open for business the entire time but for part of March and April at the peak of the hysteria, had nearly half the cases.

The notion that we can shop together by the hundreds in a chain retail store in safety, yet we cannot eat at a restaurant indoors or after 10pm is as absurd and tyrannical now as it was then. The difference for us here in the USA is we now have a new POTUS, and the need to weaponize this virus for political reasons is no longer necessary. Thus, we now see the same liberal mayors and governors who, for months, scolded our citizens for questioning the science behind the lockdowns are now magically fighting their own labor unions to force schools to reopen.. The hypocrisy would truly be laughable if it wasn't so damaging to so many people and businesses.

The "science" seems to suggest that isolation works which is great for countries who have a citizenry apparently willing to sacrifice their freedoms for an undetermined period of time. My question to you is how long do you think you can isolate from the rest of the world? Do you expect 100% vaccine compliance among your citizens? Will you require future proof of vaccination for foreign travelers to enter? Even with those practices in place, the "science" tells us that at best, the vaccines are 90% effective. At some point in time, I assume that Australia and NZ will have to rejoin civilization. As we have learned, it only takes one case, so how is that going to work for your future?

I am sincerely not trying to be facetious, and I am glad that you feel that your citizenry supports your government in that you all feel you are collectively doing the right thing. However, the reality is that any future success in limiting this virus within your own borders is only as good for as long as you are willing to isolate indefinitely..

 

[cpr0312]

Yes, it actually hurts to watch and try to understand the gibberish he just mumbled

 

[Pheroze]

There other absolutely tragic aspects to this. Child abuse has sky rocketed. The incidence of children attending the ER with traumatic injuries is at an all time high. You lock a child down with an abusive parent, or a parent who is themselves in an emotional crisis, and that is what you get. Mental health admissions here are epidemic. I would be amazed if that same data doesn't hold true in Australia. I am the chair of the Board of a children's mental health facility and the toll this is taking on families, youth, children and the workers is devastating.

 

[expresshunt]

Exactly DSO Dave... bit of a predicament.. not sure what the future holds, and tourism / hunting has been hammered to zero (same Africa, NZ, Asia etc). My wife and I both love travelling, more than assets, so we are hoping for a safe world, normal travel again, somehow, someday. Miss the DSC and SCI shows.

 

[BSO Dave]

Exactly... bit of a predicament

Again, not intended to be facetious, but that may be a bit of an understatement...

Also, curious about this...? Has the Australian government been providing financial assistance to those businesses and citizens who have been closed and unemployed during the lockdowns?