Politics

[Brent in Az]

K.

 

[Blue Moon]

Before I retired, we closed our corporate headquarters in California and moved it to Northern VA. That is a company that is doing 30+ billion in sales annually! We were hardly alone. As part of the process, I had to close one of my campuses in Los Angeles which affected about 450 of my people - the vast majority engineers. With corporate blessing, we offered them a total expense-free transfer to Huntsville, Alabama where we were moving the work. Maybe thirty families took me up on the offer, the remainder preferring to stay in their 1200 square foot "bungalows" and sitting on the 405 for an hour and a half each way to wherever they would find their new jobs. Of the few who decided to take me up on the offer, all tracked me down over the next year or so to say thanks. They were now in 4000 sq ft homes - the vast majority fully paid for with equity from their California sales. They were dumbfounded by the quality of the schools, the culture (just knew everyone in Alabama was a redneck hick), and the direction their lives had changed. And yet, I am sure everyone of them is continuing to vote Democrat as Huntsville takes on an ever bluer hue.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/new...r-terrible-blue-state-policies-behind-as-well

 

[markm]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/new...r-terrible-blue-state-policies-behind-as-well

Isn't that the truth

 

[Scott CWO]

Hmm, this thread has rather drifted.

In the interest of reasoned discussion, I'll try and play devil's advocate here and communicate the views of some in Europe (not necessarily my own).

For some, the whole 'Europeans should count America as a friend and respect her accordingly because she protects Europe from Russia' is an interesting one. On the one hand, yes, American involvement with NATO is undoubtedly a foil to Russian interests in Europe, but at what cost does it come? When NATO came about, it was a no brainer. Back then, Russia = communism, and few countries in Europe wanted that, so American assistance was gratefully recieved. Plus, most of Europe was broke. But today? There is still a gulf between Russian policy and culture and that of say France or Germany, but it's now much smaller than it once was.

In that context, the question is really 'Are American and European interests actually any closer aligned than Russian and European ones?'. To many Europeans, the answer isn't actually that clear. There are huge social, political and cultural differences between Europe and America today as well, so Russia, by comparison, doesn't seem that alien. Russia is quite agressive and expansionist, perhaps more so than America is, undoubtedly in Europe, but few people in Europe genuinely believe that there is a threat of Russian annexation of 'major' European powers anyway, so is that an issue? Ukraine, yeah, but nuclear powers or major nations like France or Germany? Harder to believe. As such, the 'need' for NATO is seen as reduced.

At that point, the question arises as to whether the 'cost' of increased American involvement in Europe is worthwhile for that security. For some at least, the real cost here is the cultural dilution. Close links with America have historically meant increased import of American culture, business and ideas. TV, Music, Movies, Products, Brands and most importantly Politics. European nations also get dragged into 'American Wars' such as Iraq etc through NATO or American links that actually, we'd have happily kept out of otherwise. With that backdrop, do these American links actually align with current European societal norms and crucially is this something that Europeans actually want in 2018? Furthermore, would rejection of a lot of these links actually be to Europes benefit, even if at the cost of closer links with Russia? For some, it's hard to say.

Rightly or wrongly, the simple fact is that many Europeans feel that they have very little in common with America and feel little comradeship with her people, politics or policy, so the idea of American meddling, no matter how altruistic, in Europe doesn't always sit well. There isn't an obvious 'enemy at the gates' like there used to be with communism, so the benefit of that aid isn't as clear. This lack of concern is also reflected in the lack of military investment by many NATO members at present. Who are they spending 2% of GDP to protect from, really?

Yes and it doesn’t sit well over here that we helped rebuild Germany and other European countries at a great cost to us but those countries seem to have conveniently forgotten that fact. Not to mention that the reason they don’t fear Russia as much anymore is because we have kept Russia somewhat at bay. Meanwhile, we have paid trillions now and in the past for their defense so Europe can become socialist and have 32 hour work weeks and husbands get paternity leave, etc... My friend, the PAST DOES MATTER TO US. It wasn’t THAT long ago.

 

[Blue Moon]

Yes and it doesn’t sit well over here that we helped rebuild Germany and other European countries at a great cost to us but those countries seem to have conveniently forgotten that fact. Not to mention that the reason they don’t fear Russia as much anymore is because we have kept Russia somewhat at bay. Meanwhile, we have paid trillions now and in the past for their defense so Europe can become socialist and have 32 hour work weeks and husbands get paternity leave, etc... My friend, the PAST DOES MATTER TO US. It wasn’t THAT long ago.

Thank you, but we could have been without that socialist (and liberal) part that have totally tranformed our society. It will visit you as well in a not so distant future. Most people I know in the private sector work 40-65 h/week and pay almost all of their income in taxes. In order to have an adequate healtcare you also have to have a private insurance in addition to that paid by through taxes. The elderly care and the education have fallen a part. The gas prices are ridiculously high like everything else due to high taxes. Conservatism has been more or less extinguished except for in Hungary, Russia, the UK and some smaller pockets here and there. Russia of today is not what it used to be. It's an oligarchy and not much of a problem if you ask me (as someone with interest and academic knowledge in geopolitical issues concerning that Russia). Merkel, Macron and the rest of the EU swamp is a much bigger problem.

 

[Scott CWO]

View attachment 268255

Her name actually is Alexandria OCCASIONAL - CORTEX.

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

 

[Scott CWO]

Before I retired, we closed our corporate headquarters in California and moved it to Northern VA. That is a company that is doing 30+ billion in sales annually! We were hardly alone. As part of the process, I had to close one of my campuses in Los Angeles which affected about 450 of my people - the vast majority engineers. With corporate blessing, we offered them a total expense-free transfer to Huntsville, Alabama where we were moving the work. Maybe thirty families took me up on the offer, the remainder preferring to stay in their 1200 square foot "bungalows" and sitting on the 405 for an hour and a half each way to wherever they would find their new jobs. Of the few who decided to take me up on the offer, all tracked me down over the next year or so to say thanks. They were now in 4000 sq ft homes - the vast majority fully paid for with equity from their California sales. They were dumbfounded by the quality of the schools, the culture (just knew everyone in Alabama was a redneck hick), and the direction their lives had changed. And yet, I am sure everyone of them is continuing to vote Democrat as Huntsville takes on an ever bluer hue.

My Aunt is a VP for Citibank. Same thing happened when they moved their credit card operation HQ to Sioux Falls, SD from NYC. People that transferred could buy huge houses and didn’t have to pay for private schools anymore. Vast majority loved it.

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

 

[Royal27]

View attachment 269385

View attachment 269431

I wish you two (and others, but y'all are the worst) would take your Meme war to another thread and leave this one for actual comments and thoughts.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Partly my fault Royal. I direct political commentary of any sort here. It does start looking like pollution.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I wish you two (and others, but y'all are the worst) would take your Meme war to another thread and leave this one for actual comments and thoughts.

There was NEVER a political thread that didn't go in the shitter, this one included. My two cents? Delete this thread and ban any post that has a political bent.

 

[lwaters]

If you flip flop back and forth on your political views on Facebook you can really trim your friends list to a manageable level. Just take the opposite view on every post great fun. They grap the bait like carp.

 

[markm]

View attachment 269381

Boy that is spot on need that shirt