Politics

[Timbo]

In 1973 I attended a lecture given by John Galbraith (for those unfamiliar with him, he was a Harvard economics professor and was an advisor to Pres Kennedy). he spoke about the "Military-Industrial Complex" and the link between retiring flag grade officers and their new career as lobbyists for the hardware producers. the link between the suppliers and the users of military products has been well established at least since the 1940s but has continued to escalate. the need to have cutting edge equipment is continually pushed by those that supply and those that purchase using money supplied by others So it should come as no surprise that there is a lot of motivation for there to be some war here or there where the products and expertise is needed. the only change since Galbraith's lecturre in 1973 is that there have been quantum leaps in technology and price. Heaven help the US taxpayer..

I've long wondered about the same thing as well. Not denigrating it or to cause offense, but from my outsider's observation the media etc and in having some American friends, the US society values military service so highly that I think it's society is based upon - or is inextricably blended with - strong martial values: which in itself provides that genesis to stimulate the continued maintainence and promotion of the juggernaut that their arms industry has become.

 

[Ray B]

this cock-womble is a twit.

Ah, another victim of the MSM propaganda. Too bad yu don't go past the DemonRat propaganda.

 

[Timbo]

Ah, another victim of the MSM propaganda. Too bad yu don't go past the DemonRat propaganda.

Great assumption - but you're entirely wrong. I'm widely read and possess both the cognition and comprehension to make sound judgements for myself: my opinion stands. I'm sorry if that bothers you.

 

[Ray B]

It doesn't bother me- I'm accustomed to dealing with arrogant DemonRats.

 

[Timbo]

It doesn't bother me- I'm accustomed to dealing with arrogant DemonRats.

But the truth is it DOES bother you enough to reply when someone knocks your poster-boy! But the funniest thing I see here is that I'm not an "arrogant DemonRat" as you assume. [And as we all know with "assume" you just make an ASS out of yourself.] But FYI, I'm not even an American citizen - I'm only airing my cogent opinion here.

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

 

[Hogpatrol]

There's no money in peace. It's infinite in war. This is military installations, doesn't include National Guard facilities scattered throught the nation. Add in defense contractors, subcontractors, material suppliers and others, it's roughly three percent of GDP and a major jobs program.

Military Bases By State – ID, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MS, MO

Military Bases By State – Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana

militarybases.com

 

[tarbe]

I've long wondered about the same thing as well. Not denigrating it or to cause offense, but from my outsider's observation the media etc and in having some American friends, the US society values military service so highly that I think it's society is based upon - or is inextricably blended with - strong martial values: which in itself provides that genesis to stimulate the continued maintainence and promotion of the juggernaut that their arms industry has become.

It could have something to do with the genesis of our nation?

If we had started as a penal colony, we might have a different approach?

 

[Timbo]

And now turning to news in South Africa, this just sent from a mate of mine:

WARNING: Farm attacks to escalate as Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) attempts to shift media focus.

There is an urgent warning to all people living in rural areas and farmers to be extra vigilant and very aware over the next week, especially from Friday 11th, through to Sunday 13th September 2020.

The latest media coverage and massive protests against farm attacks and farm murders in South Africa, both locally and internationally, has drawn a lot of attention.

This has resulted in the focus of attacks over the past weekend being shifted more towards the farm workers. This coupled with the current EFF ‘smokescreen’ protest against the Clicks group, which is among other things, intended to draw attention away from this coverage and create another racial issue that the liberal mainstream media will latch onto in a flash.

Oorgrens veiligheid, who keep a stringent record of these attacks, said that it is important to note that since the EFF started with their violent and destructive protests, farm attacks have suddenly gone quite, with not one attack occurring in the last 36 hours as at the late afternoon of 8 September 2020.

Oorgrens veiligheid has issued a strong warning to all communities to be extra vigilant and prepared “This could be the ‘calm before the storm”.

During the launch of Ernst Roets’s book, ‘Kill The Boer’, in June 2018, Roets played a recording in which a member of the 28 prison gang alleges that Julius Malema, EFF leader, went to see them in jail to talk about farm murders. Roets also told of his own experience when a convicted farm murderer told him that he was a member of the ANC military wing, uMkhonto we Sizwe, and that the ANC gave him an order to murder a farmer.

In the book it is argued that the South African government is complicit in the crisis of farm murders. Ten reasons are supplied for this allegation. Various incidents of political incitement to farm murders, as well as farm murders where political or racial motives clearly played a role, is stated in the book.

BE PREPARED AND READY for all and any eventualities 24/7..
On hearing a noise outside of your house or your dogs bark insistently *DO NOT GO OUTSIDE to investigate, phone for help or activate your alarm.
Ready and prepare your firearms while you wait in your safe room for help to arrive.

#BreakTheSilenceAboutSouthAfrica
#ActionIsAntidoteToDespair
#BreakTheSilenceGroup

Source: From South Africa today.
Image: Random choice by Admin from our own stockfile.

 

[tarbe]

But the truth is it DOES bother you enough to reply when someone knocks your poster-boy! But the funniest thing I see here is that I'm not an "arrogant DemonRat" as you assume. [And as we all know with "assume" you just make an ASS out of yourself.] But FYI, I'm not even an American citizen - I'm only airing my cogent opinion here.

I respectfully submit that you are missing a good bit of the story. And experience tells me that educating someone who is already "in the know" is a fool's errand.

 

[Timbo]

It could have something to do with the genesis of our nation?

If we had started as a penal colony, we might have a different approach?

Good point. Didn't think of it that way - that and with your "Right to bear arms..." enshrined in your Constitution - could be at the root of having influenced - for a better description - a martial society.

 

[Timbo]

I respectfully submit that you are missing a good bit of the story. And experience tells me that educating someone who is already "in the know" is a fool's errand.

Don't think so, as I said, I keep well enough informed from a wide variety of sources - and am independent enough not to doggedly swallow the indoctrination churned out by one Party - to just listen to all, and then decide the best option for me and my country. It's just that, respectfully, this all boils down to some simply taking objection to another's opinion, that's all.

 

[Hogpatrol]

On a lighter note.

 

[Red Leg]

There's no money in peace. It's infinite in war. This is military installations, doesn't include National Guard facilities scattered throught the nation. Add in defense contractors, subcontractors, material suppliers and others, it's roughly three percent of GDP and a major jobs program.

Military Bases By State – ID, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MS, MO

Military Bases By State – Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana

militarybases.com

I do not subscribe to current angst with regard to a military industrial complex. Trump's recent comments are typical of the half formed thoughts that periodically erupt from his mouth. And yes I support him - unlike his opponent, he can still at least begin to form one.

However badly our isolationist continental roots may be offended, the United States is a global imperial power - indeed, since the collapse of the British Empire, it is the only global imperial power. It is a rather unique empire characterized by economic rather than military or colonial aspirations. However, that economic power is dependent upon international market stability. The military plays a key role in assuring that stability. That is, by definition, a world-wide mission. The percentage of GDP committed to that military is the smallest since WWII.

In 1945, the United States completed the largest military conquest in human history. To its credit, its post-war effort was directed toward the economic stabilization of both its allies and its former foes - not traditional imperial exploitation. But those policies were well conceived to empower American capital deployment. A powerful military was required to protect the far flung borders of that economic Empire for which Soviet-led Marxist international aspirations represented a existential threat to such a global capitalist system.

US dependence on foreign oil has skewed that mission set all too often over the last several decades, which is why our newly won energy independence is so critical.

Much like Great Britain of the Victorian era, our current quality of life is largely fueled by the global empire. We can no more retreat to our shores than can we revert to a largely agrarian economy. A new challenge is emerging in the Pacific basin. China represents yet another form of imperial power - one we, and I suspect they, are still attempting to define. It is both economic and ideological. Unlike the US, it is a centrally driven effort. It will require both economic and military power to contain or ideally, subvert.

 

[spike.t]

Australian politicians getting some home truths

 

[Hogpatrol]

A little history from 1961 and Eisenhower, and IMHO, the last good president. This is from his farewell address, full text is here: https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=90&page=transcript

As we peer into society's future, we – you and I, and our government – must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
...
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocation, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet in holding scientific discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

 

[mdwest]

We are certainly a country with martial focus.. and I agree that the right to bear arms being enshrined in the constitution absolutely influences American mindset...

but I dont know that I agree that the US as a general statement "values" military service all that much..

We have gone through extended periods where the military has been denigrated openly (60's and 70's).. other periods where it was largely forgotten (80's).. etc..

Post 9/11 the people certainly rallied behind the flag, and there was huge support for the military for a period of maybe 10 - 15 years.. you can still see it through all veins of American society where if someone knows you are a veteran here, people will say "thank you for your service", and numerous retailers offer veteran discounts, etc (Leupold optics for example offers a 40% off MSRP discount to military service members and veterans)..

But over the last 5-10 years, I have certainly seen the open support and "value" of veterans begin to decline among the population as a whole..

While we spend a ton of money on our military... as a % of the population.. not as many people serve in our armed forces as you might think.. including reserves and national guard, the number is less than 1/2 of 1% (its actually roughly 0.4%)..

Compare that to say Russia... where just under 1% (about 0.9) serve in the military.. North Korea where about 4% of the population serves in the military,.. Iran where about 6.5% of the population serves.. Saudi Arabia where 1.4% serve.. South Korea where about 1.1% serve.. Myanmar where about 7.6% serve, etc..etc..

I dont know that we are a martial society so much as we have a fairly unique "gun culture" that spans a huge segment of our general population, in addition to having a fairly large (but not huge by any stretch when compared to others) % of actively serving and veteran military people within our population..

 

[BSO Dave]

I'm not even an American citizen - I'm only airing my cogent opinion here.

FYI, the above statement makes your "opinion" on this topic worthless to those of us who are American citizens.

By the way, using the adjective "cogent" to describe an opinion is an oxymoron. What may seem clear, concise, and logical to you may be perceived as asinine to the rest of us.

 

[Red Leg]

A little history from 1961 and Eisenhower, and IMHO, the last good president. This is from his farewell address, full text is here: https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=90&page=transcript


Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.

I am fully aware of Eisenhower's admonition. I would simply note, that prior to 1945 the US had not presided over a global empire. It was as novel a situation for him as it was for the country - and indeed, the rest the world.

 

[spike.t]

China deciding how the world should be....amazingly they dont seem to follow most of what they are putting forward....surprise surprise

China presents ‘new world’ vision as UN turns 75

Beijing releases ‘position paper’ on UN’s palladium jubilee, decrying 'sabotage', calling for wide reforms - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr