Politics

[rookhawk]

I spent a good bit of my career boiling oil so I know I’m biased, but these EV’s make no sense from a utility or environmental POV.

A lie told repeatedly and with conviction is still a lie.

But here’s a truth in defense of Elon Musk. The Series S sedan by tesla is faster 0-60mph than ANY vehicle under $250,000 for the Porsche twin turbo. It has a build quality better than the $125,000 Audi A8 and the BMW 345i.

So assuming you hate EVs and want the world to die from global warming (sarcasm), its still a hell of a good car and a bargain.

I think the cyber truck will be the same way. I’m not asking you to believe a climate change agenda or to believe you’re saving the world, I’m asking you to consider whether it’s a good $50k automobile. I’m not sure yet, but the brochure looks like this is a “tacoma killer”. It’s not a real big-boy truck, but a six passenger half-ton truck for 50k that doesn’t get stuck in the snow and never rusts seems like a fair deal. Especially if I can beat 99% of the vehicles on the market off the line in the quarter mile.

I know this is the politics forum, but lets separate the politics of lousy cars that are EVs from a vehicle that might be just fine for a family thats rural with kids that drive 20 Miles per day, haul a trailer once every six months, and don’t like getting stuck in snow.

I’m not a leftist, but I do like a good car. It may be that Elon Musk’s cars are good cars, even if the ESG environmental spin is hot air.

 

[wesheltonj]

But here’s a truth in defense of Elon Musk. The Series S sedan by tesla is faster 0-60mph than ANY vehicle under $250,000 for the Porsche twin turbo. It has a build quality better than the $125,000 Audi A8 and the BMW 345i.

So assuming you hate EVs and want the world to die from global warming (sarcasm), its still a hell of a good car and a bargain.

I think the cyber truck will be the same way. I’m not asking you to believe a climate change agenda or to believe you’re saving the world, I’m asking you to consider whether it’s a good $50k automobile. I’m not sure yet, but the brochure looks like this is a “tacoma killer”. It’s not a real big-boy truck, but a six passenger half-ton truck for 50k that doesn’t get stuck in the snow and never rusts seems like a fair deal. Especially if I can beat 99% of the vehicles on the market off the line in the quarter mile.

I know this is the politics forum, but lets separate the politics of lousy cars that are EVs from a vehicle that might be just fine for a family thats rural with kids that drive 20 Miles per day, haul a trailer once every six months, and don’t like getting stuck in snow.

I’m not a leftist, but I do like a good car. It may be that Elon Musk’s cars are good cars, even if the ESG environmental spin is hot air.

Sorry, some EV truck is not going to be carrying a 1000 pounds of corn, driving in pastures. Or worst, in a muddy pasture or dirt road and the battery goes out what what are you to do. Sit there waiting until your Honda generator charges the battery, no thanks.

 

[rookhawk]

Sorry, some EV truck is not going to be carrying a 1000 pounds of corn, driving in pastures. Or worst, in a muddy pasture or dirt road and the battery goes out what what are you to do. Sit there waiting until your Honda generator charges the battery, no thanks.

285 miles of charge covers 99.99% of daily drivers. Not saying you should buy one, just saying that it’s a finely built automobile on its face and it’s cheap to operate in most energy markets. Will I go all electric? No. But that’s because I’m risk averse and supply chains for gas, fuel, and electricity trouble me overall.

Presently we own a gas and a diesel. If I buy a battery it sounds like more belts and suspenders, but I don‘t rely on any of them exclusively.

My DEF system eco diesel is equally troublesome, as Is its air suspension. I put my faith in God and gold, all this stuff is problematic. I’m just not an absolutist because I like diversification. The EV truck looks like a promising option, but never an exclusive option at the expense of all others.

 

[Josh P]

Sorry, some EV truck is not going to be carrying a 1000 pounds of corn, driving in pastures. Or worst, in a muddy pasture or dirt road and the battery goes out what what are you to do. Sit there waiting until your Honda generator charges the battery, no thanks.

Nuance is a thing.

 

[CoElkHunter]

What are the current warranties for the EV battery pack? I had read they were 10 years and to replace the pack was in the $20-25k range. Seems to me if that’s still the case, the stiff depreciation approaching the vehicle’s 10 year mark would be a HUGE negative for me.

 

[Ray B]

It’s a six passenger half-ton truck that doesn’t get stuck in the snow

REALLY??? a truck that can't get stuck in the snow? The only way it can't get stuck in the snow is if it resided in Acapulco.

 

[ActionBob]

REALLY??? a truck that can't get stuck in the snow? The only way it can't get stuck in the snow is if it resided in Acapulco.

Truth

 

[Red Leg]

What are the current warranties for the EV battery pack? I had read they were 10 years and to replace the pack was in the $20-25k range. Seems to me if that’s still the case, the stiff depreciation approaching the vehicle’s 10 year mark would be a HUGE negative for me.

It is even worse than that. What do you think the trade-in value of any EV vehicle will be with less than half the life of its battery pack left?

 

[fourfive8]

Forcing EV down the throats of consumers is nothing more than social engineering by hook, crook or downright lie. The total environmental footprint of producing and disposing of an EV is larger than that of a comparable conventional internal combustion driven vehicle. Plus the total long term environmental costs may not yet be fully understood. Beyond the obvious environmental hypocrisy, so arrogant are the promoters of such policies, that they make no attempt at even acknowledging any negative social consequences of implementing such upside down economic models.

 

[JOHN GRENZ]

 

[CoElkHunter]

It is even worse than that. What do you think the trade-in value of any EV vehicle will be with less than half the life of its battery pack left?

Must be a trick question? LOL

 

[Red Leg]

But here’s a truth in defense of Elon Musk. The Series S sedan by tesla is faster 0-60mph than ANY vehicle under $250,000 for the Porsche twin turbo. It has a build quality better than the $125,000 Audi A8 and the BMW 345i.

So assuming you hate EVs and want the world to die from global warming (sarcasm), its still a hell of a good car and a bargain.

I think the cyber truck will be the same way. I’m not asking you to believe a climate change agenda or to believe you’re saving the world, I’m asking you to consider whether it’s a good $50k automobile. I’m not sure yet, but the brochure looks like this is a “tacoma killer”. It’s not a real big-boy truck, but a six passenger half-ton truck for 50k that doesn’t get stuck in the snow and never rusts seems like a fair deal. Especially if I can beat 99% of the vehicles on the market off the line in the quarter mile.

I know this is the politics forum, but lets separate the politics of lousy cars that are EVs from a vehicle that might be just fine for a family thats rural with kids that drive 20 Miles per day, haul a trailer once every six months, and don’t like getting stuck in snow.

I’m not a leftist, but I do like a good car. It may be that Elon Musk’s cars are good cars, even if the ESG environmental spin is hot air.

Serious question. I have been a truck owner ever since I sold my CJ7 in 1983. How does an EV truck perform in snow better than any other four wheel drive truck?

 

[Ray B]

What do you think the trade-in value of any EV vehicle will be with less than half the life of its battery pack left?

There was a story in the local news a month or two back: the dad bought a used battery operated car for his daughter as a college graduation present- I don't recall the brand but it had 20K miles on it. She drove it about a year and the battery got to where it wouldn't hold a charge. they went to the dealer t have the battery replaced. the battery replacement would have cost over $20K, which is what the book value of the car would be if the battery was replaced- meaning as the car sat, its value was $0.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Call me cynical, but I can foresee a time, in the not so distant future, when in addition to the cost of the battery they'll add in a multi thousand dollar "recycling fee" to dispose of your used one.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The problem with all of these arguments for and against IC vehicles is that people lose justification for their argument when they don’t concede common sense. The by-words are absolute, being necessary and sufficient.
It is not necessary to haul around a large pick up truck to carry one or two people to the supermarket. A small EV or IC vehicle is sufficient, like the Jimny.
It is necessary to use a large capacity IC pickup to haul goods a long way, your F250 would be sufficient.

So surely the only sensible answer is to honestly forget bias and just use what you need. In my book that probably means both a small IC or EV and also a large IC and use them appropriately.

 

[Red Leg]

The problem with all of these arguments for and against IC vehicles is that people lose justification for their argument when they don’t concede common sense. The by-words are absolute, being necessary and sufficient.
It is not necessary to haul around a large pick up truck to carry one or two people to the supermarket. A small EV or IC vehicle is sufficient, like the Jimny.
It is necessary to use a large capacity IC pickup to haul goods a long way, your F250 would be sufficient.

So surely the only sensible answer is to honestly forget bias and just use what you need. In my book that probably means both a small IC or EV and also a large IC and use them appropriately.

As always, a very good point.

In an urban setting like Austin, the EVs can be practical so long as they don't become so numerous as to create over demand on the grid. The Tesla is popular here among the new urban Texas emigres. For a daily commute, trips to the shopping center, etc. they are a fine choice. Though even there, a Tesla S battery takes anywhere from 18 hours to days to fully charge off of house current (came as an unpleasant surprise to friends). If you can find a Tesla supercharger (480 volt), you can get approx 200 mile range with a 20 minute charge.

Again, that is probably fine for daily life in an urban setting. But for driving any distance, and lots of folks between the coasts in this country do, charging time seems a pretty negative consideration. As I type, I am trying to figure out how I would manage a bird hunting trip to King Ranch much less Marathon.

I do not get the truck concept at all. Again, in an urban setting in this country I suppose there is a fairly large consumer group that will drive a F-150 or similar vehicle as a "car" or perhaps open bed SUV. That was a larger consumer group back when John Travolta was the Urban Cowboy and lines formed every evening to get into Gilley's in Dallas. But obviously Ford feels that group can support such a vehicle. But for people who actually use trucks, the performance impact on load and towing capacity is a real issue.

The following EV (Tesla) driving/operating tips are published by Gruber Motor Company which specializes in the repair and maintenance of EV vehicles - especially the Tesla. A couple caught my attention.

1. Don’t charge all the way
2. Avoid discharging completely
3. Avoid Superchargers
4. Alter your charging speed
5. Set a charging schedule
6. Switch over to percentage mode (for your in-car range display)
7. Systematically measure output
8. Don’t expose your battery to extreme temperatures

Or I can take my F250 to the Diesel pump.

 

[mark-hunter]

I will just wait till some army starts buying electric vehicles. Then I will consider it for my self.
Until now, it is either diesel or gasoline for me.

 

[WAB]

But here’s a truth in defense of Elon Musk. The Series S sedan by tesla is faster 0-60mph than ANY vehicle under $250,000 for the Porsche twin turbo. It has a build quality better than the $125,000 Audi A8 and the BMW 345i.

So assuming you hate EVs and want the world to die from global warming (sarcasm), its still a hell of a good car and a bargain.

I think the cyber truck will be the same way. I’m not asking you to believe a climate change agenda or to believe you’re saving the world, I’m asking you to consider whether it’s a good $50k automobile. I’m not sure yet, but the brochure looks like this is a “tacoma killer”. It’s not a real big-boy truck, but a six passenger half-ton truck for 50k that doesn’t get stuck in the snow and never rusts seems like a fair deal. Especially if I can beat 99% of the vehicles on the market off the line in the quarter mile.

I know this is the politics forum, but lets separate the politics of lousy cars that are EVs from a vehicle that might be just fine for a family thats rural with kids that drive 20 Miles per day, haul a trailer once every six months, and don’t like getting stuck in snow.

I’m not a leftist, but I do like a good car. It may be that Elon Musk’s cars are good cars, even if the ESG environmental spin is hot air.

My point is that neither the energy balance, carbon footprint, or tertiary environmental impacts reflect favorably on EV’s in an honest scientific evaluation. I was commenting on the politics of the matter, not whether the product offered is a quality product.

 

[rookhawk]

My point is that neither the energy balance, carbon footprint, or tertiary environmental impacts reflect favorably on EV’s in an honest scientific evaluation. I was commenting on the politics of the matter, not whether the product offered is a quality product.

Yep. But as I said, I don’t care. Because I’m not a green energy pusher and I want a truck thats 1/5th the price of a porsche 911s twin turbo, but faster 0-60 mph.

 

[VertigoBE]

I will just wait till some army starts buying electric vehicles. Then I will consider it for my self.
Until now, it is either diesel or gasoline for me.

Looks like with changing taxes in Belgium, the company car will be obligatory EV in not too long for me. Thing is that my wife already has an EV on the way, meaning we would not have a fuel based vehicle any longer...

That would mean a third car... for 2 people.