Politics

REALLY??!! Where were you on Sept 11, 2001? If that wasn't an attack, please provide your definition.
Thought saudi's did that? I don't think we needed to be there 20 years and guess who is running it again?
 
@Red Leg don't think me an idiot, but would you provide a legend to the various letters as to the countries indicated?
Sure. Left to right - Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Lithuania, Norway, Slovakia, Czech Republic, U.S., Great Britain, Austria, and Denmark.
 
I am not your pal.

But I am absolutely of the America first persuasion. That includes using our influence, military power, and economic leverage wherever in the world our national interests are threatened. We are a world-wide mercantile empire with all the benefits and risks associated with such a position. It is the height of folly to believe we can defend that empire at the shores of the continental US. If you think we have no international interests or threats then we don't even have a basis for discussion.

I, and fortunately a majority of informed lawmakers in both parties in this country, believe that stopping Russian territorial ambitions in central Europe is in our national interests.

I thought for just a moment you might understand the relative nature of budgets to GDP and how a Poland can only be compared to the US economically in relative terms. But that would require some reflection.

With one issue I suspect we are in fairly close agreement, and that is Germany. A major part of Europe's current energy and inflation problem is a direct result of Germany's nearsighted, willful dependence upon Russian natural gas. Germany has now increased its defense budget, but will still faces domestic challenges in trying to shoulder its full share of its NATO commitment. Thankfully, Putin has silenced much of that crowd for a time.
Well, it seems to me we have a huge mess at home and that it might be worth addressing our crumbling country before we spend 100B on the big bad Russians. But it's not going to change. I suggest all here buy defense contractor stocks, going to go up a bunch. The politicians who they lobby own them.
 
War is a money making proposition if you have a little coin to get started. Munitions cost money, a lot of them have to be made and a lot of them have to be sold……. And they are. Lot of upper echelon people in the government get rich off the backs of the men and women that die from wars. Doesn’t seem to bother them much though. As long as they make money off of it it’ll keep happening.
 
Guys, I’m no longer seeing NB’s posts because I blocked him, thank God! However, it appears to me that in your continuing attempts to reason with him, you are beginning to be at odds with each other. He is a combative idiot and not worthy of your efforts to educate him. He is certainly not worth generating controversy among friends. My two cents, and probably over valued at that.
 
Guys, I’m no longer seeing NB’s posts because I blocked him, thank God! However, it appears to me that in your continuing attempts to reason with him, you are beginning to be at odds with each other. He is a combative idiot and not worthy of your efforts to educate him. He is certainly not worth generating controversy among friends. My two cents, and probably over valued at that.
He may have just quit posting. Hard to say unless he posts any further. When it comes to arguing on the internet it’s futile and people say things they wouldn’t say, more than once anyway, to someone’s face. There is that certain anonymity of made up names or nick names that make arguing with someone much like arguing with my dog, not productive at all. And then be told to “Shut up and toe the line, go find another forum” is rather rude and very very leftist towards censorship. When we take that lead we become what most of us detest the most. Just an observation.
 
I was wondering if someone could list some of these munitions companies that are publicly traded so we might help the war effort and get rich at the same time.
the problem with any stock is that it is purchased with future earnings in mind, so MIC stocks such as Raytheon, Lockheed etc already have their expectations built into the price. the way to purchase any stock is to buy at a time when the company is sound but not in favor. If there is a war going on and the product is backordered with more orders expected, this is probably not the time to be buying.
 
Have to take in every aspect of the “Big Picture” as they say. Returns are realized further down the trail. Wars aren’t going anywhere and they’ll always need munitions and delivery systems. Proven fact.
 
Well, it seems to me we have a huge mess at home and that it might be worth addressing our crumbling country before we spend 100B on the big bad Russians. But it's not going to change. I suggest all here buy defense contractor stocks, going to go up a bunch. The politicians who they lobby own them.
The problem is that it isn’t that easy or simplistic. If we don’t help keep the world from turning to crap, it wouldn’t matter how much we spent only at home. It’s not the 1800s anymore with very little international trade happening and we can’t keep our standard of living if the rest of the world goes to hell.

Not meaning to insult you but it seems like you haven’t traveled internationally a lot. I could be wrong but you are very negative about the USA. As many problems as we have, if you’re well-traveled, I think you would conclude that we still are a great country and our individual problems don’t compare to the problems that most people in a lot of other countries experience daily. We have a lot of things to work on but nothing compared to most other places.
 
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Says the idiot who blocks me but is so triggered he still has to post about me. you are pathetic

Oh goodness it has been a day. But this post makes me think you may be wise to maybe take a few pointers from Chris. The “be polite” part would seem appropriate.

 
bullshit professor

"Well there’s a common denominator here and @WAB isn’t the one." you guys can have your clique. It's odd that the people who have some agreemewnt with me do not get a single like. Circle jerk of faux intellectuals here. But I will promise you, none of you would be pushing for a war with russia if YOU were getting shot at. Guaranteed

Ok, last reply. First I haven’t been arguing for a war with Russia. And actually I don’t think anyone else has, even those who have advocated supporting Ukraine with arms.

And my attempt here was to just pass on what I feel is friendly advice. If outside of this particular thread you enjoy the website and get something out of it, it would seem silly to get booted off of it because you have a disagreement over politics with other members.

As far as some clique goes, I’ve no idea what you mean by that. I can think of two members here whose opinions I do respect. However I don’t always agree them. The specific members without question don’t agree with each other on the support the USA has been giving Ukraine. Yet I still value both of their opinions and near as I can tell they don’t seem to have a problem with each other.

So whatever, best wishes.
 
Thought saudi's did that? I don't think we needed to be there 20 years and guess who is running it again?
Training bases, al-Qaeda and Osama in Afghanistan before he fled to Pakistan. Taliban did not sponsor 9-11 attacks.
 
There are two takeaways from the John Mearsheimer interview that you link to, Nature Boy. The first is this:

When I meet Mearsheimer, I am keen to focus on what we have learned since the February invasion began. I want to know how can he still maintain that there is “no evidence” that Russia had ambitions to conquer Ukraine? How else are we to interpret that shocking moment when it became clear that the Russians were launching a full-scale invasion — from the North, the South and the East of the country?

“The Russians invaded Ukraine with 190,000 troops at the very most,” he replies. “They made no effort to conquer all of Ukraine. They didn’t even come close. There is no way they could have conquered Ukraine with 190,000 troops. And they didn’t have the troops in reserve to do that. When the Germans invaded Poland, in 1939, they invaded with 1.5 million troops. That’s the size army you need to conquer a country like Ukraine, occupy it and then incorporate it into a greater Russia. You need a massive army. This was a limited aim strategy.”


I simply don't believe this. The Russian military - and the CIA, by the way - expected a short, sharp, putsch, after which they (the Russians) would be in a position either to dictate terms or to continue smashing the remnants of the Ukrainian military in order to obtain an even more advantageous peace. The least that Putin expected to get were the eastern territories and a puppet leader of the rest of Ukraine (which is what he has in Belarus). A better result, from his point of view, would have been a new border along the Dnieper river (taking essentially half of the country) - leaving Kiev itself within spitting distance; and the expected result - see below - would have been the wholesale integration of the Ukraine within Russia. From there Putin could start the whole process of destabilisation and absorption all over again in Transnistria and Moldova. Like Hitler, I expect that Putin is an opportunist.

The 'Daily Telegraph' today has this behind its paywall:

Captured documents reveal Russia's plan to annex Ukraine in ten days and kill Zelensky

Russia planned to seize Ukraine within ten days and kill its leaders, according to new documents apparently signed off by Vladimir Putin.

The leaked plans, revealed by the Royal United Services Institute for Defence and Security Studies (Rusi), show that Russia aimed to annex the country by August, Russia intended to capture Ukraine’s airfields, water supplies, central bank and parliament as Ukrainian officials either fled or were captured “as a result of the speed of the invasion". The Kremlin created a "kill list" of Ukrainians that should be killed or suppressed.

According to Rusi, the plan was known to few in Russia's military and tactical military units did not receive orders to invade until hours before.

Officials planned to register the entire population by going door to door, noting if they should be eliminated or whether they were likely to collaborate.

Putin also sought to take Ukraine’s energy sector as a whole, potentially using the power to blackout European countries.


The second takeaway from Mearsheimer is this:

The British are “major cheerleaders” for the policy [the policy of 'current rhetoric among Western leaders about defeating Russia'], by his assessment, pushing the United States into stronger action. “I think the British are being remarkably foolish, just like I think, the Poles, the Baltic states, and the Americans.”

Nothing makes me more proud of my country than the role that it is playing in defending the Ukraine. It is completely moral position: I don't want my country to be like France, trying to play both sides, or Germany, giving a doubtful minimum of assistance, or - God forbid - pious Switzerland, doing nothing at all. It is a modern day retelling of the parable of the Good Samaritan. This war was started by Putin and can be ended by him.

As another point, Red Leg's chart of assistance as a % of GDP is what you should be concentrating on. I am not sure that it captures Poland's true assistance, with an extraordinary generosity to Ukrainian refugees - free public transport, free medical access, and so on. Whilst the US's assistance has been huge, that is only because the country is so rich; and, as I am in a biblical state of mind at the moment, it is like the story of the widow's mite. You are confusing, perhaps, absolute aid and relative aid given: the US gives most absolutely, but others give more relatively.

Finally, I defend to the end your right to hold an opinion different to my own. I don't think that huge numbers of posts, launching into ad hominem abuse, giving and taking offence gets us very far. There are more productive things to do than argue with strangers on the internet!
 
Ladies and Gentlemen of the forum. Far be it for me to suggest to others what they should do with their own time. Instead, I'll share with you what I have done with mine. Last night I started reading through the somewhat heated discussion here. It was early evening. I had a quick think about things and instead of reading, I decided to go to sleep at once. I got up bright and early this morning (figure of speech, it was still pitch black) and went out for a quick hunt before work. It was overcast but dry with crisp air and temperature around -3C (27F). A few minutes before sunrise I was rewarded for my efforts with a nice Roe deer doe. I love hunting with my K95. Happy trails everyone!

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